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I am not saying Doo oil isn't good, I've used a lot of their oil in my sleds as well as Amsoil. All brands of oil are in it for a profit. My point is that many brands of oil are performing just fine in Doo's even the E-Tecs, as evidenced by the myriad of posts concerning different oils. What bothers me is that Doo states that their specific blended oil is the only oil to use thereby coercing consumers into buying just their oil when many other brands will work just as well. Doo makes way more profit off of their oil and accessories than the sled sales. Therefore any gimmicks they can use to increase their oil sales they will use. As for sled breakdowns, using Amsoil has never been a problem over many, many years so oil brands are of no concern to me pertaining to claims and breakdowns.
 
I believe you'll find the reason Doo says XPS oil is the only oil approved for use in the Etec is it's they only oil they've ever tested in the Etec.

Why on earth would they test Amsoil or any other brand and say it's OK? That would just be foolish business.
 
I have run XPS and Mystic JT4 both over the years in several sleds in the family. I have also taken engines apart running both oils although not for oil related reasons and am very impressed with the oil coating on the innards of a Mystic engine over an XPS engine. Although there is no way to quantify it, I have a much high confidence level in Mystic oil than I do in XPS. I just bought an 18 850 with one year of warranty left. I would definitely prefer running JT4 in it over XPS even if they were the same price. I just don't think I dare too in case I ever have to make a warranty claim.
 
That's interesting. I've never looked at their Semi Synthetic data sheet because I run it in my 600 Carb and that motor will burn anything. I've run in no particular order Mystik JT-4, Sea & Snow Semi synthetic, Arctic Cat semi synthetic, Arctic Cat Formula 50 and Yamalube in that motor. Other than the difference in smell, it's all run just fine.

I've run Mystik JT-4 in probably 7-8 Cats now without an issue, through thousands and thousands of miles. My current sled has close to 4,500 miles on it and when we pulled the valves out at 2,500 miles they were a little dirty but nothing preventing them from functioning and cleaned up rather easily.

Final note, when it comes to cost, if played right, I can't find a better deal than Mystik. It goes on sale in the fall at the Blaine's F&F for about $18 a gallon and then Mystik runs a rebate for $8 a gallon. I can buy 6 gallons for a total cost of around $60. (Use 2 separate addresses for the rebate as its usually limit 3).
An interesting side note.... when we had to switch from R12 refrigerant to R134a; we ran a lot of different oils to learn which one provided the best compressor protection with the new refrigerant (I've always looked at an AC compressor similar to a 2 cycle engine) anyway, had over 50 test stands running.. By accident, we found a blend or semi synthetic provided the best overall durability for the variety of tests we ran. High speed, high and low temperatures, hi load load low speed. etc.
 
I believe you'll find the reason Doo says XPS oil is the only oil approved for use in the Etec is it's they only oil they've ever tested in the Etec.

Why on earth would they test Amsoil or any other brand and say it's OK? That would just be foolish business.
I suspect Rotax did all the lubricant testing... may have used some outside test facilities.... and I suspect they work with 2 to 4 major oil stock companies and have looked at a range of lubricants and detergents.. but never worked in Engineering at Rotax.. so would be hard to be specific. That is the way most automotive companies do it and I suspect the snowmobile brands are similar. As they all have their specific/company brands. Like you say, I doubt they have even looked at a competitive brand or run it on their tests/test stands. They have been doing this for a while and have hours, days, weeks, months and years of durability testing to base where they are going.
 
The Motul testing was posted in here by someone else a few posts ago; and Amsoil widely publicized theirs at the time the testing was published. Is it as much testing as BRP the oem who's oil you need an equivalent... absolutely not. Is it more than you'll get from most other oil manufacturers... yes. Does it mean you can't run any other oil... no. Does it mean you won't be covered under warranty for reasons stated in earlier posts... maybe. So to users if all other oil... beware. I say follow the advice I got from Mystics own oil rep; run the manufacturers oil for warranty purposes. Or don't, it doesn't matter to me. But the people must be informed!!! Lol [emoji23]

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Ha ha.. you have me laughing big time. If the masses know too much and research too much.. sometimes the decisions come harder.. It is a lot easier to listen to ones buddy who has used X brand for years and had great luck and no issues ... and three or four of his friends use the same brand X with good results.. thumbs up to an educated decision.
 
But,First thing dealers ask when there there's an engine issue is ,What oil are you using .?BRP has gotten super strict on warranty issues also ,so choose with your wallet carefully .it could be less full if there's an issue just because you wanted to save some $ on oil .
One less fight if there is a warranty issue. Older sled, I will use any oil I have had good luck with before, but if I buy a 10-15000$ sled I want to get my warranty with no questions. And I know they cant leagally deny warranty without proof, but they sure can make things hard if they want. If you have a great dealer maybe different, but if they are a great dealer, buy some oil from them to support them.
 
I run XPS just for peace of mind if I have any issue. Many dealers will refill your empty XPS containers from bulk and that drops the price considerably so ask yours if you can bring in empty oil jugs.

Anyone running any different oil doesn't impact me personally as I always buy new sleds.

This thread, along with others like it are really the poster/responder just asking for comfort with a decision they have most likely already made - "Can I tow a 24 ft trailer with my Ford Explorer? Do I really need to break in a new belt? Can I run any oil I want in my sled? Can I ride on a field if it's not posted? Is vaping safe? Do I really need to wear a mask when I'm in Walmart? Will the police give me a ticket if I drive X MPH over the speed limit if I'm a safe driver? Do all 850's explode? etc..."

It's America run what you already decided you were going to buy.
 
An interesting side note.... when we had to switch from R12 refrigerant to R134a; we ran a lot of different oils to learn which one provided the best compressor protection with the new refrigerant (I've always looked at an AC compressor similar to a 2 cycle engine) anyway, had over 50 test stands running.. By accident, we found a blend or semi synthetic provided the best overall durability for the variety of tests we ran. High speed, high and low temperatures, hi load load low speed. etc.
You're not the first person I've heard that from. Semi Synthetic seems to be the best of both worlds. Stick a little better to the metal, lasts a little longer with better longevity than mineral. I can tell you've I've run some Semi-syn Yamalube over the years and it has never failed me.

How does Mystic smell?
Hard to describe. It's not a real strong smell and it doesn't bother my senses like Amsoil does. Doesn't smell as good as Klotz or APV though either.

Fleet farm currently has mystic semi syn on sale for $14.99, and full syn for $19.99, plus there is a $8 rebate going on. So I stocked up
That's what I do. I feed 3-4 sleds a season and with a full synthetic for around $12-$15 it is hard to beat. If I remember correctly, it was a limit of 3 rebates per household so I send 1 to my house, 1 to my in-laws and 1 to my buddy's house. 9 gallons for $110 is as economical as it gets and we'll usually use most of that up in a season.
 
I sent the following to Mystik support today in hopes of getting more details on the JASO FC vs FD certification, along with some clarification on what "JT-4" implies:

Hello, I am looking for some clarification on your 2-Stroke Snowmobile oils. I own a fleet of 2018+ Ski Doo 850s which require JASO-FD rated oil. When I look as your product spec sheets for your JT4 Sea and Snow 2 Cycle Synthetic Blend, I see that it is JASO-FD rated. However, the JT4 Full Synthetic 2 Cycle Snowmobile oil states that it is only JASO-FC rated (lesser rating than FD). Generally full synthetic oils meet the higher standards, so I am wondering if the full synthetic is mislabeled and actually is FD rated?

In addition, there is a lack of clarity on the official JASO list online. I see row numbers 336, 337, and 338 are Mystik 2 stroke products all rated to FD. The confusing part here is that Mystik Sea & Snow and Mystik JT-4 Sea and Snow show up as different rows (neither row mentions "synthetic" or "synthetic blend"). I know "JT-4" used to be exclusive to the full synthetic oil in your product line, but now even the synthetic blend "sea and snow" has JT-4 in the title on your website. Does one of these line items represent your synthetic product? I'd recommend having JASO update their list to match your current product naming convention. Link to JASO cert as of Nov 1 2020:

www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/2T_EV_LIST.pdf Thank you for the help.
 
They responded back in a few hours with the following:

Thank you for your interest in Mystik Products. The Sea & Snow was added to the Mystik JT-4 product line when we streamlined all small engine products into the Mystik brand as JT-4. We changed the registration number on Mystik JT-4 Sea & Snow and registered it on the JASO listing as such at that time. The previous listing we continued to list to support older product that may be in the field. Mystik Sea & Snow has always been synthetic blend, but we chose not to use that term as part of the name. It is well described on the back as a blend to give users confidence of that credential.

The Mystik JT-4 Synthetic 2-Cycle Snowmobile oil is a top end very good performing product, and it protects the engine very well. It however does not quite pass the visible smoke test. Beyond that it is exceptional in protecting the engine and keeping the power valves clean to retain a responsive throttle indefinitely. It is not registered with JASO as it would only pass the JASO FC specifications based on the visible smoke. Many sledders use it with some outstanding reviews.

I hope this helps you with your questions

Best regards,

Jim
 
In summary, the full synthetic JT-4 does not meet the BRP requirement of JASO FD, and per previous reading it does not meet SAE Grade 4 either. It only complies to (but does not officially "certify to") JASO FC.

The semi synthetic JT-4 "sea and snow" does meet JASO FD and is officially certified as such. Doesn't meet SAE grade 4.

All of this said, there is a large amount of field data on this oil (in both flavors) being successful in both old and modern machines. I've got a family friend that has ran this stuff well over 100,000 miles through carbed and fuel injected 2 strokes. I've used it in the 500ss for several years as have my riding buddies.

It would be helpful to see an oil related failure pinned back to Mystik products, but I honestly haven't seen it. Run what makes you happy!
 
So, can we run Sea and Snow semi-synthetic without being hassled by Ski-Doo if there was a warranty claim? I have no experience with the Sea and Snow but my confidence level on the JT4 full synthetic is so high that I would prefer giving Sea and Snow a try because it is a Mystic product. I personally feel the JT4 full synthetic is far superior to XPS.

In summary, the full synthetic JT-4 does not meet the BRP requirement of JASO FD, and per previous reading it does not meet SAE Grade 4 either. It only complies to (but does not officially "certify to") JASO FC.

The semi synthetic JT-4 "sea and snow" does meet JASO FD and is officially certified as such. Doesn't meet SAE grade 4.

All of this said, there is a large amount of field data on this oil (in both flavors) being successful in both old and modern machines. I've got a family friend that has ran this stuff well over 100,000 miles through carbed and fuel injected 2 strokes. I've used it in the 500ss for several years as have my riding buddies.

It would be helpful to see an oil related failure pinned back to Mystik products, but I honestly haven't seen it. Run what makes you happy!
 
Then there is this posted by TFD in another thread that backs up my opinion/experience of JT4 vs XPS:

"There was a guy a few years ago on Hardcoresledder that called himself The Chemist that said he evaluated most of the available oils and rated them. When pressed, he wouldn't reveal details on his testing and went dark after that. It looked like he was promoting Legend oil. The data that he posted is attached. JT4 is rated better than any of the OEM oils. The date that I have on this file is 2014 so it is at least 6 years old."

Oil Test Reports -> https://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_id=1918033
 
So, can we run Sea and Snow semi-synthetic without being hassled by Ski-Doo if there was a warranty claim? I have no experience with the Sea and Snow but my confidence level on the JT4 full synthetic is so high that I would prefer giving Sea and Snow a try because it is a Mystic product. I personally feel the JT4 full synthetic is far superior to XPS.
so you personally feel JT4 is a "far superior"oil than XPS based on your own experience and some guy on HCS that calls himself the "chemist"?? Ohhhh ok???? not in my $15,000 dollar buggy,not a chance smh.
 
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