This little glitch just popped up within the last 2 weeks. The sled is an '08 tundra 300. Untill the sled is fully warmed up the ignition sw. nor either kill sw. will shut down the engine. Have to pull the plug wire to shut down. Once warmed up a normal shut down can be made. Has anyone else run into problem? If so what was the fix.
GVS11
On the single cylinder tundra 300F, there are three switches. Kill, ignition key and tether.
All three are single pole, single throw SPST switches. All are wired in parallel.
Thus closing any of the three will "make" the circuit.
The ignition module has a kill wire. Grounding this wire will kill the ignition. The
trio of switches is wired to this wire. Thus if any of the switches makes, then the
ignition will die. All three have to be in the run position for it to run.
The tether switche is closed when the tether is removed.
The key switch is closed when the key is off.
The kill switch is closed when the kill switch is down.
If none of them are working, then there is either something wrong with the
wiring; ie, the trio is disconnected from the module, or there is something
wrong with the module itself.
There is a multipin plug coming out of the module; identify the kill wire
on the module side of the plug, and ground this. A safety pin will pierce
the insulation and allow you to connect a clip lead there. Ground this.
If the engine dies, but not with the switches, then there is something wrong
with the wiring and should be easy to track down. Perhaps a connector pin
is pulling out of the shell.
If the engine does not die, then the problem is internal to the module and
you will have to replace it. Not cheap. There is no fixing the innards of
the module because it is "encapsulated."
Your likely suspect is the module, as it does heat up as it runs, and the
connection, likely in the internal printed circuit board, will expand with
heat and make the connection to the outside wire. When cold, it does not,
thus the wire is internally disconnected allowing the thing to run.
This type of "ground to kill" is the most common type of 2-stroke engine
shutoffs around. This is why removing all the three switches is a good
way to steal a snowmachine without a key. Just reach in and pull the plug
off the back of the key switch and you are good to go.
In my case, out here in the boondocks, where I do not have a theft problem,
I disconnected and discarded both the key switch and the tether switch. I
only use the kill switch. I then took one of those rubber band thingies
women use to tie up their pigtails and wrapped it around the kill switch so
the rubber holds it in the UP / RUN position.
To shut the engine down I have to hold the kill switch down for two or three
seconds until the engine stops.
The advantage to all of this is that I cannot misplace a key or tether, or
drop it out there at Mile 14.5 on the Burma Trail, etc. The rubber band
thing means that when I go thru an oopsie on the trail, my fat belly blubber
does not push down the kill switch and stall my motor just when I need a
burst of power. Very embarrassing when going thru a small creek and you
give it the goose, and at the same time the engine kill switch stops the
motor and there you are shaking hands with the Salmon Spawn and water
halfway up your cowling and legs.
The machines with DESS are different. There is a serial prom chip in the
key; the DESS module has three wires to the DESS thing on your dash. One
is ground, one is hot, one is prom read. When you put in the tether, the
hot wire and the ground wire act like the normal tether switch, and the
engine will run/idle. If the prom code is not correct, the engine will
not come out of idle but beep at you instead. A double beep as I recall.
The computer can be programmed with up to six different key prom codes.
I really, really, REALLY wish there was some way to disable this thing.
For a while I considered glueing the DESS key to the switch and let it
dangle inside the cowling. But then I got negative waves. I started
thinking "Gee, what if it works just a bit loose, and now it is all globbed
with glue and I can't make it work out here at Mile 14.5?"
But if you want theft proof, it works well. The thief can't drive it away
like on your 300F. They will need a trailer. We had a report right here
in this forum about some poor guy that had his 300F *and* his trailer taken
right out from in front of the house. The thief just came along and hitched
up the trailer to his truck and drove off. Motorcycle guys like Chains
around a pole, hydrant or tree for this reason.
Newer Honda ATV's have two circuits in the key switch. One SPST connects
the battery to the works, the other circuit enables the ignition. Unlike
the "ground to kill" or "connect to kill" these are "connect to enable",
thus to steal it you either need the key, or a plug with both circuits
enabled to plug in place of the key switch pigtail. The really new Hondas
have that plug where even an octopus cannot get at the plug without major
disassembly.
Now you know all I know about ignition switches and their ilk.
All three are single pole, single throw SPST switches. All are wired in parallel.
Thus closing any of the three will "make" the circuit.
The ignition module has a kill wire. Grounding this wire will kill the ignition. The
trio of switches is wired to this wire. Thus if any of the switches makes, then the
ignition will die. All three have to be in the run position for it to run.
The tether switche is closed when the tether is removed.
The key switch is closed when the key is off.
The kill switch is closed when the kill switch is down.
If none of them are working, then there is either something wrong with the
wiring; ie, the trio is disconnected from the module, or there is something
wrong with the module itself.
There is a multipin plug coming out of the module; identify the kill wire
on the module side of the plug, and ground this. A safety pin will pierce
the insulation and allow you to connect a clip lead there. Ground this.
If the engine dies, but not with the switches, then there is something wrong
with the wiring and should be easy to track down. Perhaps a connector pin
is pulling out of the shell.
If the engine does not die, then the problem is internal to the module and
you will have to replace it. Not cheap. There is no fixing the innards of
the module because it is "encapsulated."
Your likely suspect is the module, as it does heat up as it runs, and the
connection, likely in the internal printed circuit board, will expand with
heat and make the connection to the outside wire. When cold, it does not,
thus the wire is internally disconnected allowing the thing to run.
This type of "ground to kill" is the most common type of 2-stroke engine
shutoffs around. This is why removing all the three switches is a good
way to steal a snowmachine without a key. Just reach in and pull the plug
off the back of the key switch and you are good to go.
In my case, out here in the boondocks, where I do not have a theft problem,
I disconnected and discarded both the key switch and the tether switch. I
only use the kill switch. I then took one of those rubber band thingies
women use to tie up their pigtails and wrapped it around the kill switch so
the rubber holds it in the UP / RUN position.
To shut the engine down I have to hold the kill switch down for two or three
seconds until the engine stops.
The advantage to all of this is that I cannot misplace a key or tether, or
drop it out there at Mile 14.5 on the Burma Trail, etc. The rubber band
thing means that when I go thru an oopsie on the trail, my fat belly blubber
does not push down the kill switch and stall my motor just when I need a
burst of power. Very embarrassing when going thru a small creek and you
give it the goose, and at the same time the engine kill switch stops the
motor and there you are shaking hands with the Salmon Spawn and water
halfway up your cowling and legs.
The machines with DESS are different. There is a serial prom chip in the
key; the DESS module has three wires to the DESS thing on your dash. One
is ground, one is hot, one is prom read. When you put in the tether, the
hot wire and the ground wire act like the normal tether switch, and the
engine will run/idle. If the prom code is not correct, the engine will
not come out of idle but beep at you instead. A double beep as I recall.
The computer can be programmed with up to six different key prom codes.
I really, really, REALLY wish there was some way to disable this thing.
For a while I considered glueing the DESS key to the switch and let it
dangle inside the cowling. But then I got negative waves. I started
thinking "Gee, what if it works just a bit loose, and now it is all globbed
with glue and I can't make it work out here at Mile 14.5?"
But if you want theft proof, it works well. The thief can't drive it away
like on your 300F. They will need a trailer. We had a report right here
in this forum about some poor guy that had his 300F *and* his trailer taken
right out from in front of the house. The thief just came along and hitched
up the trailer to his truck and drove off. Motorcycle guys like Chains
around a pole, hydrant or tree for this reason.
Newer Honda ATV's have two circuits in the key switch. One SPST connects
the battery to the works, the other circuit enables the ignition. Unlike
the "ground to kill" or "connect to kill" these are "connect to enable",
thus to steal it you either need the key, or a plug with both circuits
enabled to plug in place of the key switch pigtail. The really new Hondas
have that plug where even an octopus cannot get at the plug without major
disassembly.
Now you know all I know about ignition switches and their ilk.
Precisely the the same problem. Somehow I missed that post. I have the module on order and IRONDOO is right-it ain't cheap!
New module is installed .Took a short test hop and all is good. Kinda think that the old was slowly failing befor the non shutdown issue came up as the sled ran better right after a cold start with the new module. With the old module the engine would stall 4 or 5 times unless I constantly blipped the throttle to keep it runing. Not so with the new unit. I thank you again for the info IRONDOO.
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