there is no difference, its just the dealer trying to make a buck off you

 

I figured that! Thanks!

 

Wow! Were they able to look you in the eye when they quoted you that price? Buy your plugs at the cheapest, most convenient, place you can.

 

That’s the price per plug? Plus installation? That’s crazy. I always thought that $20/plug at CanadianTire is expensive.
What’s the name of the dealer cause that price says a lot about them? Maybe you should try and find another dealer or independent shop?

 

Iridium plugs aren't exactly cheap, thats actually not a bad price. its pretty fair

 

Though, be careful ordering spark plugs online and especially from extremely cheap Chinese webshops...There have been reports about fake spark plugs sold as NGK as well as other brands.

Fake or not?

Beware of fake spark plugs: 5 step guide how to identify fake vs genuine by NGK spark plugs technical experts ✓

www.ngkntk.com

 

I have been told the spark plugs you get from the dealer are indexed and that is why you are paying a premium despite them being similar to the one at CT.

BMW motorcycle plugs are indexed as well. Can't say you will notice a performance difference, but they index them for a reason

 

Oops, posted too early, see below...

 

The only possible reason is if they're ETEC plugs, BRP gets them indexed properly. I've never tried non BRP plugs in an ETEC so can't say if they would also index, but every "dealer" plug has indexed perfectly based on factory torque specs, and for me it's just not worth trying it to save ~$40 every 3 years.

 

its just in the position of the electrode, really if your torque wrench is off slightly even dealer bought plugs won't be indexed properly. another thing when it comes down to indexing is, every time you crush the seal of the plug its going to alter the positioning of the electrode when you apply the appropriate torque or if theres a little bit of oil on the threads from pulling out the old plug. might as well just give an extra 5 degrees of torque to line the plugs up. you likely wont strip the head and its going to be a negligible difference

 

Indexed??? I have indexed plugs before building race engines, but not sure how you could buy an "indexed" plug. Indexing from my understanding is the positioning of the electrode/gap inside the cylinder when installed. In engine assembly the plugs are either installed prior to assembling the head or by marking the plug exterior and using your mark as a guide when installing.

As far as the plugs go, they are the same as the Can Tires ones. Just confirm the gap is correct and buy the cheaper one.

 

I just checked my owners manual and under the plug number it says "Engine and spark plug threads are indexed".

 

NGK also uses a 4 digit PN:

Mach Z 1000 SDI spark plug information

There are 3 new NGK Iridium ECS version spark plugs available for snowmobiles. These are the same as the other ECS spark plugs which have chamfered faces where the ground electrode is attached by welding. This chamfer was added to strengthen the weld and eliminate electrode burn off. The chamfer...

www.dootalk.com

I know in the past we bought 'for example' BR9ES plugs w/ 'stock numbers' like #1234. Yes you can probably use the CTC plugs, but I'll bet dollars to donuts that the 4 digit stock number won't be the same as the ones BRP (or the other OEMs) specs.

Also, I can't see if there is any notation in the PN if the terminal end is solid or threaded. Threaded ends need a slight crimp to prevent end from coming loose. I'm guessing the CTC plugs are likely the latter.

 

ive never had an issue with any of the NGK Iridiums i've bought in the past at CT, they're the only plugs i've ever used in any on my cars

 

its for an 800r ptek

 

Indexing the plugs can be a good thing for many engines and it is required on a Etek but not on a Ptek to my knowledge.

 

@Luke800
Gotta watch those CT plugs. Probably have screw on caps, etc.
Consumer grade vs pro grade.
Stick with the dealer.

Think of it as a cost to support your dealer now - for when you really need them.

 

really though, we all should think about it, if these were all specced for etec engines and infact, indexed based on BRPs spec, wouldn't that mean that all plugs would line up in the same place on all engines? would also mean that Rotaxs manufacturing and threading heads is on point perfect with every engine head they make, which i highly highly doubt is the case.

get the plugs from CT if you don't want to spend that outrageous dealer price and just make sure you follow the spec and keep the plug with opening at 90 or 180 degrees with the injector

 

really though, we all should think about it, if these were all specced for etec engines and infact, indexed based on BRPs spec, wouldn't that mean that all plugs would line up in the same place on all engines? would also mean that Rotaxs manufacturing and threading heads is on point perfect with every engine head they make, which i highly highly doubt is the case.

I've been away from CNC machining for over 30yrs, at that time the precision and multi axis abilities were outstanding. I do not see it being that difficult to orientate the spindle and the flute engagement of the tap so that the start of the thread is exactly where you want it on a circumference. Based on the thread pitch and number of threads you can specify to the spark plug manufacturer index position based on a specific torque.
brian

 

lol the doolaid once again....yeah yeah they are indexed but you have to index them... ! But they are indexed ! so twice the price ! ;D makes no sense at all...

 

Any well raised Canadian goes immediately to Canadian Tire for supplies then looks elsewhere.

 

or princess auto, the mastercraft sockets have disappointed me recently, their lack of lifetime warranty now is a farce. and all the older tools that were sold as a lifetime warranty are no longer replaceable. i took a torque wrench in last summer to exchange one that stopped functioning and if it wasn't for the fact that i used to work there and spoke to my old manager, i would have been sent home with my broken wrench

 

Just to reconfirm the indexed spark plug thing... I know for a fact that BRP plugs are indexed properly. This means that the threads in the heads are always clocked correctly - which as Candubrain said above, was trivial more than 3 decades ago - and the threads on the spark plug are also clocked correctly, if bought from BRP.

What I don't know, is if all plugs will index properly. My guess is that the plugs are not CNCd, meaning the threads would end up all over the place. BRP likely pays NGK a premium to sort the plugs and send a portion of the ones that are properly indexed to them. Why do they do this?

Because on an ETEC, the plug must be indexed. And training your dealers and every mechanic in that dealer on this is a headache from a logistics standpoint that they can simply avoid, by passing the cost on to the consumer. It's zero cost for them and saves massive troubleshooting and tech support issues. So if you buy the plug from your dealer and torque it to spec, it is guaranteed by BRP to work.

Now, NGK might clock all of their plugs. They might CNC them. I have no idea, and as I mentioned to me it's just not worth it since the savings are almost non existent, and I don't mind supporting my dealer (which was the best reply on here, by the way...it's a dark day when my dealer doesn't exist and ONLY the guy at the cantire parts counter can get me plugs. Half the guys and gals working there literally don't know how to find plugs unless you give them year, make, and model, and "Skidoo" isn't in their system...ask me how I know ).

Anyways, all I'm trying to say is that if you buy them from BRP, they are guaranteed to work. The shop manual literally has two different procedures for if the plugs are BRP or not - if they are BRP, you torque to spec because they are already indexed. If not, you have to index them yourselves. Again, they might work otherwise. Indexing is also pretty damn easy to do, and Leo is right that an extra 15-30 degrees of rotation probably won't hurt anything. But the ~$40 every three years is - to me - a worthwhile price to pay to support my dealer, and not worry about any of this at all.

 

Just to reconfirm the indexed spark plug thing... I know for a fact that BRP plugs are indexed properly. This means that the threads in the heads are always clocked correctly - which as Candubrain said above, was trivial more than 3 decades ago - and the threads on the spark plug are also clocked correctly, if bought from BRP.

What I don't know, is if all plugs will index properly. My guess is that the plugs are not CNCd, meaning the threads would end up all over the place. BRP likely pays NGK a premium to sort the plugs and send a portion of the ones that are properly indexed to them. Why do they do this?

Because on an ETEC, the plug must be indexed. And training your dealers and every mechanic in that dealer on this is a headache from a logistics standpoint that they can simply avoid, by passing the cost on to the consumer. It's zero cost for them and saves massive troubleshooting and tech support issues. So if you buy the plug from your dealer and torque it to spec, it is guaranteed by BRP to work.

Now, NGK might clock all of their plugs. They might CNC them. I have no idea, and as I mentioned to me it's just not worth it since the savings are almost non existent, and I don't mind supporting my dealer (which was the best reply on here, by the way...it's a dark day when my dealer doesn't exist and ONLY the guy at the cantire parts counter can get me plugs. Half the guys and gals working there literally don't know how to find plugs unless you give them year, make, and model, and "Skidoo" isn't in their system...ask me how I know ).

Anyways, all I'm trying to say is that if you buy them from BRP, they are guaranteed to work. The shop manual literally has two different procedures for if the plugs are BRP or not - if they are BRP, you torque to spec because they are already indexed. If not, you have to index them yourselves. Again, they might work otherwise. Indexing is also pretty damn easy to do, and Leo is right that an extra 15-30 degrees of rotation probably won't hurt anything. But the ~$40 every three years is - to me - a worthwhile price to pay to support my dealer, and not worry about any of this at all.

Or you can skip this & have the ground electrode 'shrouding' the spark.

W/ the money you save buying your plugs @ CTC, you can buy one of these:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mor-62160?seid=srese1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpYivpZfm-wIVEq7ICh1ZDgl7EAQYASABEgJ-G_D_BwE

 

From the 2020 PAC:

I know prior to 2018 when I was still running an SDI I thought the ECS plugs were pricy. 2004 was a costly year when the SDI was intro'd, as they'd foul a plug just looking @ the sled the wrong way...

Also I imagine the heads are CNC machined including the plug holes, so their accuracy might surprise you.

 

From the 2020 PAC:

View attachment 2011644

I know prior to 2018 when I was still running an SDI I thought the ECS plugs were pricy. 2004 was a costly year when the SDI was intro'd, as they'd foul a plug just looking @ the sled the wrong way...

Also I imagine the heads are CNC machined including the plug holes, so their accuracy might surprise you.

That's odd, not once did I ever foul a plug on any of my SDIs, including my '04.

I honestly can't say I've ever known anyone who has either.

 

NGK BR9ECSIX Iridium IX Spark Plug this is the listing. I guess I will go OEM to be safe

 

Value pack plugs from crappy tire are your mass produced economy plug, that are not the same.
Always buy the individually packed/boxed plugs from automotive dealers/suppliers.

 

And this is why I call them stealerships

 

Its easy Af, literally mark the opening of the electrode side, then make sure that is facing the injector when torqued. Not a whole lot to indexing plugs. Being a few degrees off will effect nothing.

 

That’s the most accurate info posted here. We tested with plugs indexed, 90 degrees, etc. It makes zero difference to performance or fuel economy. It’s simply a theoretical target. Buy the best priced plug and don’t overthink it.

 

This has been a hot debate over the years. Many people don’t believe that the threads in the cylinder head are cut specifically so that a plug that has the ground strap welded on in a specific spot will index properly every time. But that’s how it was designed, and that’s how it works. And we’re not talking about a few degrees, it’s a large window. If the ground faces the injector = bad. If the ground faces away from the injector = good.

 

Canadian tire plugs are almost always threaded cap. Buy solid cap ones from dealer or auto parts store or even Royal Distributing here in Canada.

 

This has been an enlightening discussion. One more thing I'd like to add, the dollar difference between OEM and CT isn't significant compared to the money we've all pissed down the drain after a few beers.....remember Archie Bunker, "You can't buy beer you can only rent it!"

 

Yep I've blew thru a bunch of money back in the 80s on 'go fast' stuff that made very little difference.