Serious question; don't you think if it were possible for someone to build a can that lowered weight, increased performance and still met all legal noise requirements the sled manufacturer would have already built it?

I'm sure the engineers at Doo & Rotax don't sit around saying "we need to leave something on the table so these aftermarket can guys can make a living".

The best can for your sled, and everyone else, is the one it comes with from the factory.

 

X2 what MX-Z Man said.

 

X3

 

Serious question; don't you think if it were possible for someone to build a can that lowered weight, increased performance and still met all legal noise requirements the sled manufacturer would have already built it?

I'm sure the engineers at Doo & Rotax don't sit around saying "we need to leave something on the table so these aftermarket can guys can make a living".

The best can for your sled, and everyone else, is the one it comes with from the factory.

Disagree with this statement 100%. You think that the BRP engineers have unlimited cost targets? Do you honestly think that if BRP management said that the engineering goal was light weight and low noise with no regard for cost that they wouldn't build the muffler out of titanium (or some other exotic material???)

The muffler weighs as much as it does mostly for cost not for noise. BRP engineers could take the same acoustic design and change all materials to titanium and realize a SIGNIFICANT weight savings. Costs would be through the roof though...so they use steel. Simple as that.

Now. That being said...the acoustic design is based on VOLUME, baffling/chambering and sound deadening material. To meet the same noise limits, the muffler would be bigger and heavier than the diamond s can. But it would be a heck of a lot lighter than the stock steel muffler.

Backpressure is a non issue from a weight and design standpoint. Choke as needed...almost zero weight penalty from BRP engineering standpoint.

You don't like cans...that's fine. But you are spreading misinformation.

Fact of the matter is that people won't spend $550 on a ti muffler that is the same sound as stock and only 10lbs lighter...when it could be ~20lbs lighter and just a bit louder. it's unfortunate for the future of the sport...but that's the reality.

 

The "brp would of done it already" statement is old news. They already came out with a lighter weight muffler on the g4. This muffler looks very similar to the muffler that was supposed to be on the 2015 t3's. Everybody assumed they scrapped the idea due to it being louder than the original design. I believe it was due to balance. I deleted e start and installed a lightweight muffler on my xm. It was so much easier to pull over to the left side vs right. The g4 doesn't have that issue, hence a newer lighter weight muffler that's been available for years!

 

What these muffler manufactures need to state is this is a weight saving issue only.Cans add noise and more trails could be closed because of this.

 

Disagree with this statement 100%. You think that the BRP engineers have unlimited cost targets? Do you honestly think that if BRP management said that the engineering goal was light weight and low noise with no regard for cost that they wouldn't build the muffler out of titanium (or some other exotic material???)

The muffler weighs as much as it does mostly for cost not for noise. BRP engineers could take the same acoustic design and change all materials to titanium and realize a SIGNIFICANT weight savings. Costs would be through the roof though...so they use steel. Simple as that.

Now. That being said...the acoustic design is based on VOLUME, baffling/chambering and sound deadening material. To meet the same noise limits, the muffler would be bigger and heavier than the diamond s can. But it would be a heck of a lot lighter than the stock steel muffler.

Backpressure is a non issue from a weight and design standpoint. Choke as needed...almost zero weight penalty from BRP engineering standpoint.

You don't like cans...that's fine. But you are spreading misinformation.

Fact of the matter is that people won't spend $550 on a ti muffler that is the same sound as stock and only 10lbs lighter...when it could be ~20lbs lighter and just a bit louder. it's unfortunate for the future of the sport...but that's the reality.

Titanium itself will not be any quieter than steel, so let's assume you'd need the same insulating properties in order to meet the sound requirements - fair enough?

That leaves us with the basic muffler itself as the biggest potential for weight savings.

The naked muffler in question is advertised at 3.6 lbs, but it is uninsulated. Titanium is 45% lighter than steel. That same muffler in steel would weigh about 6.5 lbs. (6.5 x .55 = 3.575).

With all else being equal, the weight savings vs steel is less than 3 lbs.

That's $193/lb, for a 3 lbs savings and an unknown performance loss.

But wait, the aftermarket doesn't meet OEM sound requirements, so the discussion isn't valid.

Like I said, the OEMs aren't leaving performance not the table just so the aftermarket guys can stay in business.

 

I believe the oe's generally use a thicker and heavier steel for long term durability also. Can't have sleds with rusted out exhaust running around on the trail. Even if it is stock!

 

Can't beat a good can tread on a Sunday afternoon.

 

Sorry, I'm lost here I guess. . .Gain in HP and loss in weight? I don't see how those conversations with with the topic of using the can?

The only can I have ever use is made from porcelain as far as I know. (?) Years back I guess they had a wood lid back in the days the can was outside.

When I was overseas, some countries just "squat" so not sure they call it a can.

(I hope we get to a day those are the only cans we talk about. . . . .)

 

Personally, what closes trails isn't a stationary noise test, but when guys are practically wide open on private property that someone is good enough to open up their land for snowmobile use. That being said, I can hear a distinct difference between stock @ full throttle and Diamond can.

 

I'm debating on getting the new 850 can from Diamond. They are a bit pricey, but they are quiet, and they look sweet. Huge weight savings also over stock. Just wondering if anyone has feedback from other models with this brand and in a trail version Can?Where have you actually heard one to say they are quiet.I figure between 6-8000 rpm BRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAP.LOL

https://diamond-smfg.com/product/ski-doo-850-g4-quiet/

 

Let's get this straight. I do not buy a can if it is louder in Db than legal.I do not want our trails shutdown over a weight savings.I bought a d&d quiet can for my zr8000, and it had a deeper sound, but sounded close to stock when rolling down the trail. I also do not want a can that will give me too much if any of a hp loss. Diamond has the only can at dynotech for cat that actually showed some real gains, at a substantial weight loss. That is why I'm asking. This question wasn't made by a young 20yr old kid to make loud BRAPPPING sounds through the woods to shutdown our trails. I know there is no performance gains if only a couple at most with a can. They are there for weight reduction in my world.
If I wanted additional power I would be looking at other options from pipes to turbos.....

 

Dumper, I'd call the manufacturer of the muffler's you may be interested in. I've talked to a couple in the past in addition to some respected shops. I found all of them to be honest and consistent with which are acceptable for trail use, and which are not. If you talk with 3-4 "hot rod" shops, you'll get a good idea which ones won't lose any power.

 

What is the weight savings with one of these, I have a hard time with saving a few lbs on a trail sled for the cost?

 

Titanium itself will not be any quieter than steel, so let's assume you'd need the same insulating properties in order to meet the sound requirements - fair enough?

That leaves us with the basic muffler itself as the biggest potential for weight savings.

The naked muffler in question is advertised at 3.6 lbs, but it is uninsulated. Titanium is 45% lighter than steel. That same muffler in steel would weigh about 6.5 lbs. (6.5 x .55 = 3.575).

With all else being equal, the weight savings vs steel is less than 3 lbs.

That's $193/lb, for a 3 lbs savings and an unknown performance loss.

But wait, the aftermarket doesn't meet OEM sound requirements, so the discussion isn't valid.

Like I said, the OEMs aren't leaving performance not the table just so the aftermarket guys can stay in business.

Sure. Not sure if the dampening is really the same...but sure.

Not sure I follow. I would say it differently. The stock muffler is 15lbs. That includes some heat shields and sound deadening material. Maybe 1 pound worth? So 45% of the remaining 14lbs nets a 6.3lb weight saving. I'm assuming that the volume and chambers/baffles would be identical. Make sense!?

Diamond s cans have tested equal to or higher in hp than the stock muffler at dynotech. So not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

The OEMs are designing to a cost target and price point. Plain and simple. Cost is always a factor. The BRP engineers could make a much lighter but equally quiet exhaust if they had an open check book. That's an engineers dream...unfortunately it's not reality.

 

I don't need anymore proof than the link to tell me that the Diamond can was louder at operating RPM. If you want to know, I thought I heard the Diamond can on the second example in the link let off a little before he tapped it to climb the hill. That could make some people ask if he is holding the throttle back a little everywhere so it isn't as loud. Not that a manufacturer would say one thing, whether it is true or not. Oh and if you buy, it makes them $'s. Why would they stretch the truth?

 

Let's get this straight. I do not buy a can if it is louder in Db than legal.I do not want our trails shutdown over a weight savings.I bought a d&d quiet can for my zr8000, and it had a deeper sound, but sounded close to stock when rolling down the trail. I also do not want a can that will give me too much if any of a hp loss. Diamond has the only can at dynotech for cat that actually showed some real gains, at a substantial weight loss. That is why I'm asking. This question wasn't made by a young 20yr old kid to make loud BRAPPPING sounds through the woods to shutdown our trails. I know there is no performance gains if only a couple at most with a can. They are there for weight reduction in my world.
If I wanted additional power I would be looking at other options from pipes to turbos.....

I wouldn't think that you would want a can so you can make more noise, resulting in trail closures. Myself, I don't want to take any chances, or give any reasons for trail closures, as I am sure you don't either. Just have to remember it is a touchy subject around here. I hope that you at least aren't offended at me. I didn't mean anymore than what I said. I have the same sled coming, dumper. Have fun this winter, and remember track side down!

 

Sure. Not sure if the dampening is really the same...but sure.

Not sure I follow. I would say it differently. The stock muffler is 15lbs. That includes some heat shields and sound deadening material. Maybe 1 pound worth? So 45% of the remaining 14lbs nets a 6.3lb weight saving. I'm assuming that the volume and chambers/baffles would be identical. Make sense!?

Diamond s cans have tested equal to or higher in hp than the stock muffler at dynotech. So not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

The OEMs are designing to a cost target and price point. Plain and simple. Cost is always a factor. The BRP engineers could make a much lighter but equally quiet exhaust if they had an open check book. That's an engineers dream...unfortunately it's not reality.

The shielding and insulation will be more than a pound.

Is the stock 850 muffler 15#, or is that a typical muffler weight?

Either way, it really doesn't matter. The can in question isn't a muffler, it's a can. Let BRP build a can then compare. Or let the other guys build a muffler.

Titanium is 45% lighter than steel, period. With everything else being equal a titanium can will be 45% lighter. If its lighter than that then everything else is NOT equal.

Also people need to keep in mind their decision to add a can affects us ALL. Honestly adding a can is one of the most selfish things that snowmobiler can do - unless they only ever ride on their own land.

 

The shielding and insulation will be more than a pound.

Is the stock 850 muffler 15#, or is that a typical muffler weight?

Either way, it really doesn't matter. The can in question isn't a muffler, it's a can. Let BRP build a can then compare. Or let the other guys build a muffler.

Titanium is 45% lighter than steel, period. With everything else being equal a titanium can will be 45% lighter. If its lighter than that then everything else is NOT equal.

Also people need to keep in mind their decision to add a can affects us ALL. Honestly adding a can is one of the most selfish things that snowmobiler can do - unless they only ever ride on their own land.

I just weighed my stock 600rs muffler and it weighs just at 15 lbs. not sure what an 850 muffler weighs. Probably very similar if not more.

Making a distinction between a can and a muffler is diversionary. The OEM engineers are not doing anything different in a stock muffler than what some of these baffled "cans" are doing (like the diamond s). They are just adding sound insulation material and lots of volume.

i get it...you aren't a "can fan". Nor am I. But please don't spread misinformation about what BRP engineers can or can't do. It's all design trade offs if they wanted to shed weight...there's 6+ pounds available in the muffler.

 

This is an interesting topic in a few ways. I am not for or against cans. I wish I had a silent choice option (like boats) on my sled. I do like the louder sound at times but not all day every day. But to make a blanket statement that if there was a better product BRP would make it, is just untrue. Maybe it is true for the can, but there are improvements to be had in clutching, exhaust, fuel mapping, ect... BRP does have great engineers buto they are also paid to keep the sleds plenty safe on sound for every state and country. Why is there always improvements in clutching and other areas? Sled manufacturers keep these sleds at a certain percentage Tage of Max potential, so they live long and have less warranty claims. I don't modify my sleds but when I raced jetski, there were night and day differences between stock and modified skis.

As far as weight saving to balance the sled, I spoke to the BRP Rep at the Milwaukee show and he told me the battery is in the trunk because the sled is perfectly balanced. if you lighten up that right side by changing the can, it may actually throw it off balance.

 

I dont have one and I havent heard the 850 can, but I have heard and rode with the Ti Quiet on a 800 gade. On a scale of 1-10 (1 being stock sound level) I would rate the Ti Quiet as a 2. It is the quietest can I have ever heard and it literally requires a side by side comparison to even tell the sled sounds different; average joe on the side of the trail wouldnt know its a can as you pass them by. My buddy has a MBRP can, for comparison, I would rate that as a 4 or 5 on the noise level.

The can is the lightest on the market, and if the dyno test are correct and its maintains stock or better HP, it's a winner! If I could afford it, its the only can I would buy, until then, its the stock suitcase for me.

 

Is anyone with me on this one? I have never even heard of this company...

 

Is anyone with me on this one? I have never even heard of this company...

Theyve been around for awhile, very expensive which is why they are not mainstream and you havent heard of them, but they do make some of the best stuff out there. Most people arent going to pay $600 for a can when you can buy a MBRP for less than 1/2 that cost.

 

I will be doing Dynoport or HPS. The rest of them loose power anyways..