https://www.polaris.com/en-us/snowmobiles/team-polaris/600r-race-sled/

 

Looks like Santa showed up early🤣🤣

 

I know the consumer side of things keep getting updates here and there. But these race sleds don't seem to have changed much over the last 5 or so years. Are we tapped out on geometry and design? Arctic Cat obviously made a leap forward, but are the other two looking to copy that direction or refine what they have?

That aside, these sleds are sweet. I see some of the Cross Country sleds come up for sale… Tempting.

 

I know the consumer side of things keep getting updates here and there. But these race sleds don't seem to have changed much over the last 5 or so years. Are we tapped out on geometry and design? Arctic Cat obviously made a leap forward, but are the other two looking to copy that direction or refine what they have?

That aside, these sleds are sweet. I see some of the Cross Country sleds come up for sale… Tempting.

They do keep updating the race sleds but from year to year, but it has been mostly minor suspension and geometry changes. I do think that as you mentioned, we are getting to the point where suspension and rider position are largely optimized and there is not a lot of room for major changes. Many - I think most - racing classes do not allow for titanium and other exotic materials - so I do not think the OEMs can head too far in that direction.

I am curious as to why Polaris kept the Cross-Country race sled a 136" presumably 2.52 pitch track versus a 2.86 137". They are moving their trail versions to a 2.86 137".

I do not know if it is because Polaris Factory supports the enduro and cross country racing more than Ski-Doo, but the Iron Dog and MIRA are dominated by Polaris and they run really good.

I do think if Cat develops a snow cross sled based on the Catalyst with the "laydown" engine design, it should be competitive and (I hope - I like competition between brands) give Ski-Doo and Polaris fits. I would not doubt if Polaris and Ski-Doo's next race sleds have a new engine design similar to Cat. What else major can they do?

 

That 600 cross country is very fast with the new motor last year , 5+mph on the cat and doo on the ice

 

How does it run compared to the 650?

Spent a day on a Comp 600 last year. 200 mile day, while it wasn't the most plush ride... that sled was an absolute weapon and made me feel 30 years younger. Be fun to try the Pol in this catagory.

 

Yup that Poo CC sled will clean up in the COR Series again until DOO or KITTY make some engine changes, Poo is using a Race specific engine for their Buggy. Is it Fair????

 

The other 2 can't do the same thing IF they wanted , Cat isn't just gonna sit around and watch their redheaded stepbrother run roughshod over them now

 

We picked up an 850 Polaris last year for
my wife. The Matryx chassis is very easy to ride fast!

 

Ya it is, I loved my '22 XCR, very easy chassis to ride comfortably, but I like the Lynx better.

 

No one stuck with the polaris at pine lake last year , he was one of the people who brought up the drive belt as a speed stealer

 

 

Doo has to be close on dropping a couple new engines. The 850 has been here since 2017 and the 600R is 2018.5. Maybe not complete redesigns but some HP gains. You know they have them ready to go.

 

 

I really need to find an XRC 9R to try out. Seems like such a blast. I like that Polaris aligned their engines with the packages that makes sense. NA motors in cross country sleds, turbo in the mile eater. Want a Ski-Doo Cross Country sled, you either get the actual race sled or forced to the turbo. Take it or leave it.

 

For the price, I don’t know if I’ll ever buy one. But I’d sure like to try one out for a season.

 

 

Is it me or are all the dynamix (?) shocks on backwards? Looks like they are facing the opposite of the other shocks and right in the path of the upper a-arms.

 

The rezzy's are rolled a good bit rearward to reduce the distance the wiring has to protrude from the paneling. Provides a bit more protection for the wiring this way, not that the spot is dangerous, but the safer the better there.

 

Saw your video on YouTube, I am interested to see what you have to say about the 9R, and how your 858 stacks up against it.

Same here! I enjoy the diversity on his channel.

I'm not sayin'
I'm just sayin'
Keep up the GREAT content on the channel Tanner!
"Buck Rub did me dirty"

UPGRADED POWER VALVE LINKS - CATALYST 858

Here are the Precision EFI upgraded power valve links. We created these links to fix the problem with the OEM links, which spin on the power valve shaft. These CNC links are made of 6061T6 Aluminum and are designed to have more clamping force on the power valve shaft. Those links are a must...

precisionefi.com

Hahah some of the quotes people pick up on are awesome. The Buck Rub DID do me dirty that night haha
Thanks for the good words guys! I'm glad to see/hear you guys are watching and enjoying, I've always wondered if I was covering enough of the different platforms. One of the most important things to me with the channel was/is to not tie myself to any one brand too heavily. I do have my favorites, but I love being able to cover a really broad spectrum of sled related stuff.
Is there anything in specific you guys are looking for more of?

Yea I guess I can see why they did that. They do look funny however.

So I saw your last two videos on your channel. Your buddy got the 900R but you said your boost will end up being more race then trail. Maybe you need a new trail sled for the channel. It’s only 20k 😂

I still fully intend on riding the Boost a good bit on the trail, it's just becoming one of those sleds where like, I need the right trail type for me to enjoy it otherwise it'll be a bit too much, or a bit of a chore to ride with how aggressively quick it is if that makes sense.
In full transparency, the RXC 858 was/is a channel a purchase. I thought about stacking another on there for this season, but there really wasn't anything that excited me enough to pull the trigger. I was pretty much dead set on a Boost Dynamix, but then the colorways didn't excite me at all and I couldn't justify the cost. I then debated getting a N/A 850 XRS 129" because I love that new mineral blue color, and wanted to support my local dealer....but then I rode a G5 again and said 'aint no waayyy'. As of now I'm just gonna play with the current fleet, maybe add another older sled in there and see what gets released for next season. The Dynamix is supposed to be incredible, I'll have my turn on several of them this season to see what it's all about.

Actually, if I could have gotten this Khaos colorway on a Boost Dynamix, I would have done it.

 

Is there anything in specific you guys are looking for more of?

Seasonal trailer service and maintenance.
More budget bombers grass drags.
A little birdie told me (via f/b) Pat is getting a Lynx 4 stoke Turbo! Have to see that build.
Sled maintenance vids and riding vids with your crew.

 

Since you have the new cat and Polaris and an older XS doo, what makes you say “ain’t no way” about the g5?

 

I'm hesitant to write this, but also in a way glad to try and explain my feelings on the G4/G5 sleds. Tieing into @bdlenhart 's question a bit about why I don't own a G4/5 and upgrade it like I do with the other sleds and well, that's because I already did it. The abridged version of it is that I truly feel the G4/5 bulkhead and the resulting geometry/chassis dynamics were a miss, especially when compared to the previous XS chassis. Doo has since made several bandaid's to try and fix things, but they've gone so far that when I ride G5's now, they feel numb to me, I feel like there's a disconnect between myself and the machine. That's the short version.

Long version, this has a lot of back story but explains my disdain for current Doo stuff:
When i got back into sleds after racing, it was a 2011 XP, then a new 2015 XRS 120", shortly after my father and I split a low mileage 2017 850 w/ the late spring order KYB pro40 option that a guy in NY was selling mid season. That sled was the most nervous, unpredictable thing we've probably ever owned...UNLESS...you were hammering 2' moguls or riding tug hill on a Saturday afternoon, in those conditions it was untouchable...until it blew a belt. If anyone goes back in the Dootalk archives or had a 17/18, they'll remember how awful those things were in the front end predictability/confidence department. Que up the grand touring swaybar, shorten the shocks, dump the spring rate so it sits 3/4 into the shock stroke crowd here.

I did some simple stuff to that thing but it was just not right. I'll try to shorten this middle ground up a bit, I rode some Polaris Axys sleds at the NY snodeo back when they had demo rides and was sold on the front end alone, just having a seating position similar to the G4 but a front end that worked was all i needed to jump ship. I then rode a '19 Indy 850, the following year ordered a 2020 XCR and it was an absolute lemon. I'd then ridden a 900T in our group and liked the 4s power and even with the '19 front end. The heavier 900T engine was enough weight, low enough in the chassis, to help correct the roll couple a bit so i said "ehhh maybe i'll try one of these again". Ended up trading the lemon 2020 XCR back to the dealer and picking up a holdover '19 900T.

I absolutely loved that sled for a couple seasons. I threw the Ras-X arms on it with stock length shocks and that combined with the weight/CG and new roll couple was enough for me to be content with the front end for a while. I ended up going a bit too far with that sled for VT trails, I had Whalen make me a very spicy max effort stock turbo tune, gearing options were limited unless you wanted one of Martin's gears so I stuffed 9T 2.86p drivers in it and 8" rear wheels all into the stock 137" track, worked with Ian at Monster and had triple adjusters and what not blah blah blah. I didn't like the current market offerings so built my own exhaust and charge tube/recirculating bov setup.

That was all great until we did the VT border to border in a day ride and i realized it was just too much sled for VT and what not. Now we get into trying to make the Doo's work. I was still mad at the 2020 XCR experience but wanted a 2s again, so I found a 2018.5 600R for cheeaappp (cause the guy didn't currently have the title but he did come through with it like he said) and I set out to make the front ends on these things work. The rear as we all know, with the standard R-motion was and is incredible (R-motion X is a dog) so I didn't need to do much there.

This was the start of the 2022 season and A7 on here had dabbled with really tall (2020+ i think) spindles on I think it was a Freeride or maybe a back country and that was a similar direction to how I wanted to go so I started poking around parts diagrams and what not. To shorten this up, I ended up using 2018 RS spindles, RAS-X arms and 18.5" long shocks to correct the front end geometry to where I thought it would be acceptable. My full 600R build thread with all of this in depth can be found here: https://www.dootalk.com/threads/600r-rough-trail-build.1613935/
I went nuts with this sled, and it was simply incredible. If there were a sled I wish I hadn't sold, it might be this one. Anyone that rode it was blown away and I honestly don't know if ever ridden a better combo suspension compliance wise. The front end was and is the best Doo setup I've ridden to date, and I've ridden everything but the new G5 4 stroke/Renegade front end.

It worked so well, that I decided I had to try it on a BackCountry to see if it actually was the corrected geometry or if it was just a lucky combo and the Elka's were doing all the work.
Copied the setup onto a 2020 BCXRS but with 18.75" Kashima Pro40's from Ian, all else was the same...'18RS spindles & RAS-X.

The whole setup worked again. Now the BCXRS still took a bit more effort to ride and the rear C-motion skid wasn't great...but the front end worked. I then rode these for the season. The 900T sat around and eventually got sold. I rode friends sleds here and there and every time I threw a leg over my buddies Matryx, something about it just felt more exciting even though it wasn't nearly as compliant in the suspension department...but my doo was on Stage 5 elka's so I figured i could work with the suspension on the Polaris.
I was also frustrated that I, me, a 30yo ******* in VT was able to make a front end work, but Doo was doing basically nothing at the time to update these things and make them what they could be.

The downfall to the front end was increased ski pressure, big time...so I could see that for the masses, this front end wasn't a perfect solution...but look at what we have now...
Doo then took anti-squat out of the rear skid to calm the sleds roll axis down in an attempt to keep the front end more neutral and predictable but we all know how that was received. Almost everyone I know puts the front arm in the "more transfer" setting trying to get back to what we had. They just kept throwing little bandaids at it until we now essentially have a very similar setup to what I've got pictured above.

I had been debating going back to a Polaris for the tail end of that '22 season despite having the above wild 2s sleds built...they worked incredibly well, but somehow just weren't exciting to ride. Polaris released the Boost and 5min into the release video I had an order submitted and that was that.

Bring us to present day, I setup and ride G5's and just can't believe how numb they are. I know and completely understand that there's a good portion of riders that want something like this, where it just does the things, but that's simply not me, maybe some day, but not currently. So that's a big one, well the main one, but also....WHY are we still using a tunnel wide enough for a 16" wide track? The sleds feel SO wide if you hop on after a Matryx or Catalyst. Anywayyy, I needed a 4S to go do saddlebag rides in Canada and there was no way I was going to a G5 or another G4 just to dump 5k into it. A 2016 1200 fell into my lap last season and it made me fall in love with the XS chassis all over again. I said it in my saddlebag trip video, I can't fathom how Doo HAD that XS chassis & 1200 combo and then wound up where they are now. I've thought about stuffing a 1200 into a G4 with the front end and all that and I just go "Why? Why even try when the XS is just already IT.".

Anyywaayyy, very long winded, but that's why I'm not dabbling with Doo's much on the personal side of things. I love my 1200 and will be working with that a good bit this season, but not many still care about the 1200's sadly.

All that said, if I had to build a G5 for myself, or if anyone gave me a sled and a checkbook and said "make this as good as it can be"...this is what I would do: 850 n/a, TRA or P85 conversion, hell even a PB80, anything but the p.drive, DooDoctor floating secondary, 128" previous era R-motion (not the X), RAS-X arms, 18.5" Elkas & the new Renegade/4s RX spindle because that's the one. That spindle is sweet, all the benefits WITH the steering leverage to help combat the increased ski pressure this setup gives.


@Baron I'd be way more likely to own a Lynx before a G5 Doo. The Lynx is actually fun to ride, but you have to ride it constantly, which I don't mind, you just need to know that going into your day haha. I'd still make some front end changes, which I think we've discussed via PM before, but as a whole the package is a lot more raw and has an attitude/characteristic too it that just makes it feel like something...I don't know exactly how to word it, but I'd bet you know what I mean. The main downfall that comes to mind, is strictly a personal one and it's that I have a hard time not destroying the insides of my knees (where my suit doesn't have padding) on the tapered/rounded side panels, and that's my biggest deterrent with the Lynx sleds honestly.

 

Saw your video on YouTube, I am interested to see what you have to say about the 9R, and how your 858 stacks up against it.

Same here! I enjoy the diversity on his channel.

I'm not sayin'
I'm just sayin'
Keep up the GREAT content on the channel Tanner!
"Buck Rub did me dirty"

UPGRADED POWER VALVE LINKS - CATALYST 858

Here are the Precision EFI upgraded power valve links. We created these links to fix the problem with the OEM links, which spin on the power valve shaft. These CNC links are made of 6061T6 Aluminum and are designed to have more clamping force on the power valve shaft. Those links are a must...

precisionefi.com

Hahah some of the quotes people pick up on are awesome. The Buck Rub DID do me dirty that night haha
Thanks for the good words guys! I'm glad to see/hear you guys are watching and enjoying, I've always wondered if I was covering enough of the different platforms. One of the most important things to me with the channel was/is to not tie myself to any one brand too heavily. I do have my favorites, but I love being able to cover a really broad spectrum of sled related stuff.
Is there anything in specific you guys are looking for more of?

Yea I guess I can see why they did that. They do look funny however.

So I saw your last two videos on your channel. Your buddy got the 900R but you said your boost will end up being more race then trail. Maybe you need a new trail sled for the channel. It’s only 20k 😂

I still fully intend on riding the Boost a good bit on the trail, it's just becoming one of those sleds where like, I need the right trail type for me to enjoy it otherwise it'll be a bit too much, or a bit of a chore to ride with how aggressively quick it is if that makes sense.
In full transparency, the RXC 858 was/is a channel a purchase. I thought about stacking another on there for this season, but there really wasn't anything that excited me enough to pull the trigger. I was pretty much dead set on a Boost Dynamix, but then the colorways didn't excite me at all and I couldn't justify the cost. I then debated getting a N/A 850 XRS 129" because I love that new mineral blue color, and wanted to support my local dealer....but then I rode a G5 again and said 'aint no waayyy'. As of now I'm just gonna play with the current fleet, maybe add another older sled in there and see what gets released for next season. The Dynamix is supposed to be incredible, I'll have my turn on several of them this season to see what it's all about.

Actually, if I could have gotten this Khaos colorway on a Boost Dynamix, I would have done it.
View attachment 2101673

I love the content! The only thing I wish is more Ski Doo stuff. Not sure why you won't do G5 (maybe even 900R Turbo) stuff. As much as you "upgrade" stuff on your Boost and the 650, you could do the same for a Ski Doo. I currently have an 18 XRS 850 and I spring checked a 900R Turbo XRS. I too do a lot of the touring stuff in Canada. Hence the 900R Turbo. Would love to someday go to Vermont area and Quebec to ride.

 

Thanks for the honest reply. I can appreciate your viewpoint. None the less, it will not deter me from following your channel. I love the 1200 stuff too. Even thought of looking for one. Decided instead to try the 900R Turbo 4s.

As far as my Polaris experience....They always seemed fast and agile. My issue with them is everyone i know who rides them are plaqued with all sorts of electrical issues, breakdowns, and just being unreliable. And riding long distances, whether in the UP of Michigan or in Ontario Canada, reliability is king.

I also felt when riding them the feeling of not having that solid feeling I get from my Doo. IDK. Someday maybe.

Keep up the great content!

 

Call it like you see/ride it.

2019 was a Good year on snow with Great colors on sleds!
Now that you have ridden "The Burg" for a few seasons (or more) this pic/location might look familiar. It's on the way to a certain scenic lookout.
For everyone else, name the high elevation scenic vista that offers the best views of Pittsburg and you win a "free" Munson Motorsports t-shirt! Subject to Tanner's approval of course!

I'm actually down for that haha. You'll have to tell me who's right though...I know where that is, but not the intersection number or anything like that.

@DooDown87 You're not wrong, they've all got their own problems for sure. That 2020 XCR I had never left me stranded, it just had oiling issues and consumed a gallon to 300 miles. So much oil it would knock the octane out of the fuel and throw DET all the time. I eventually just said screw it, pulled the knock sensor off, wrapped it in foam and ziptied to the bumper bar. Ran the sled 1200 miles like that and it was actually quite fast once dialed in, just couldn't deal with the oil consumption.
The 9R Polaris on paper really doesn't excite me one bit to be honest, but I haven't had the chance to really ride one. They're a bit more picky tune/fuel wise with that large piston and the latest 850's are running so good on such a bulletproof base that it's hard to want to stray away from that. As far as ordering a new Polaris goes, I'd be really torn between an 850 n/a or a Boost, both with Dynamix...it would depend on where I was looking to ride more most likely. That's part of why I waited on this season, I really don't know what void adding another of those would fill haha.

@bdlenhart Can't blame ya one bit! If you're seeing them around you go down all the time, it wouldn't make any sense to go jump into one haha. Especially if you're running saddlebag type rides or the longer distance stuff, there's a reason I kept the 1200 for doing just that!

Thanks for the support guys, giving me a little extra motivation to get into the season!

 

sno-strm said:
For everyone else, name the high elevation scenic vista that offers the best views of Pittsburg and you win a "free" Munson Motorsports t-shirt! Subject to Tanner's approval of course!

I'm actually down for that haha. You'll have to tell me who's right though...
Thanks for the support guys, giving me a little extra motivation to get into the season!

Thanks Tanner!

MunsonMotorsports

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I started watching because you’re not far from me and the riding itself is extremely similar. But I enjoy your videos for many reasons now. So keep it up!

I will say you’re very good at making and editing the videos also and that makes quality videos. Better than many, especially sled guys on YouTube. It’s also fun to watch you and your Dad. It’s funny because your Dad is so quiet and reserved and you’re always very upbeat and energetic lol!