The lack of tuning options is main reason most go to PB80. Myself, I will be installing Dalton primary and secondary springs into my 16 Gade. The springs sacking out early is main deficiency of E-drive.

 

I would say very minimal performance gain compared to a edrive IF the edrive has the right springs, and a good secondary spring.

But the pb80 will last basically the entire life of the sled with no maintenance besides a spring change once in a great while. Plus, you can adjust the pb80 easily if you add mods.

So ask yourself how long you going to keep the sled. And are you going to add mods later?

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Stock 2016 X 1200. What if any gain would I see swapping to a PB80 over the edrive ?

Depends entirely on how it is set up. And the rest of the system it is matched up with...secondary, traction, etc. also depends on what you mean by "gain". Are you referring to sled performance? Tunability? Reliability? Long term ownership costs? Ability to retune in the field?

Many buy a PB80, bolt it on, and gain nothing. Others gain a LOT. Many many complicated facets to a seemingly simple question.

I have 3, on 3 sleds I own. And I have gained quite a bit on each of them. But the PB80 was just one piece of the puzzle on each of them.

Need more info on your desires and current situation to really answer your question.

 

Depends entirely on how it is set up. And the rest of the system it is matched up with...secondary, traction, etc. also depends on what you mean by "gain". Are you referring to sled performance? Tunability? Reliability? Long term ownership costs? Ability to retune in the field?

Many buy a PB80, bolt it on, and gain nothing. Others gain a LOT. Many many complicated facets to a seemingly simple question.

I have 3, on 3 sleds I own. And Inhave gained a ton on each of them. But he PB80 was just one piece of the puzzle on each of them.

Need more info on your desires and current situation to really answer your question.

Sled stock with no plans for additional mods. Ran 8200 rpm completely stock. Plan to keep it until they come out with a better 4 stroke skidoo machine.

 

Then in my opinion if you just buy a plain ol' pre-calibrated PB80 and bolt it on, in place of your Edrive, you have little or nothing to gain except tunability (but you don't intend to tune...so that's a waste) and possibly longevity because they do run pretty much forever with zero maintenance. But I would expect no performance difference by just bolting on a PB80 and doing nothing else.

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the Edrive and run it until it starts to give you some problems that cause you to look at your clutching. Only then consider buying a PB80 if you are planning to keep the sled a while longer.

 

Then in my opinion if you just buy a plain ol' pre-calibrated PB80 and bolt it on, in place of your Edrive, you have little or nothing to gain except tunability (but you don't intend to tune...so that's a waste) and possibly longevity because they do run pretty much forever with zero maintenance. But I would expect no performance difference by just bolting on a PB80 and doing nothing else.

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep the Edrive and run it until it starts to give you some problems that cause you to look at your clutching. Only then consider buying a PB80 if you are planning to keep the sled a while longer.

PB80 calibrated by me and clutch tuned for max perf out of otherwise stock sled.

 

I don't think you'd see much if you are only doing the primary. Because all you can do is change springs and weight in a PB80. So that means you can crank up your RPMS closer to rev limit, and change your engagement. But you can't change the actual shift very much at all. So I don't see how that would translate to any actual increase in performance. Yes more RPM means you are pulling more power out of the engine, but the HP you add would mostly be erased to heat generation in the clutches before it reached the track. To prevent this HP to heat loss, you need to balance the primary changes you made with the proper secondary changes for your usage.

I believe the end result leaving secondary stock would be an engine that spins faster (assuming that's how you tuned it), and your actual performance if you actually put a stopwatch or radar to it, would be about the same. And belt life might actually suffer because of the heat from spinning faster.

In my opinion to really feel a difference, you need to get into the secondary also. With the right helix and secondary spring biting the belt correctly throughout the shift, mated to the PB80 tuned to peak HP rpm, now you've got something...whatever that "something" is you are chasing. Drag racing is one setup, top speed is another, corner to corner is another...and a big part of getting the max out of whichever you are targeting is in the shift, which is mostly controlled by the secondary, not the primary.

So if you're willing to get into the secondary, I change my mind. Then YES get a PB80. But if you're not willing to get into the secondary and your Edrive currently works fine, then I recommend keep what you have and save the cash, cuz I think you won't gain much by just messing with primary and nothing else.

I love the PB80. Not trying to discourage it. But IMO there are 2 reasons to get one. 1. Your Edrive or TRA sucks or is worn out and you NEED a replacement clutch. Buying one will return you to stock, reliable, long-term performance 2. You want to get into actively tuning and setting up the entire sled for increased performance. Now the PB80 makes sense because it is so much cheaper and easier and faster to adjust than Edrive is to help you dial in where you want to be.

You don't seem to be in either category, so I don't see much benefit to you buying the clutch now...unless you really have the cash burning a hole in your pocket certainly there is nothing to lose.

But I'm just one guy with an opinion. Surprised not many others are chiming in. Opinions do vary here and someone surely disagrees with me LOL...

 

I know on my 16 edrive after riding for a season the rollers were flat and the spring was sacked. They have fixed the roller problem for 17 but the PB 80 is much easier to change springs and adjust for gains but I agree you need to do the secondary also.

 

Like Crazy said, you need to get into the secondary also. I like Bill Cudneys cr9 but some find it too aggressive. Pb80, cr9, Bills silver secondary spring and 8700 rpm and my sled hauled before I went even further.

 

At 8200 rpm you're leaving a lot of performance on the table. A pb80, with a stiffer spring in it, and a matching secondary setup would wake your sled up a lot.

You could run your factory secondary helix even

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I just went through this same thing last season with my 16'. I had a PB80 on the shelf from my last 1200 because the TRA was a rattlecan on the XRs, so it was there waiting to be bolted on. I put one season on the edrive and then noticed towards end of the season that RPMs wouldn't go above 7800. Like others experienced, problem was a sacked secondary spring. Doo offers a recall for it and will give you a new belt as well. So...you could ride yours until you notice the 7800 RPM issue and then doo the PB80 and secondary. As others said, if you want performance gains you need to secondary. Mine is now rocking pretty good but i changed everything, including PB80 and spring plus the seconday helix and spring. It's worth it.

 

Sled stock with no plans for additional mods. Ran 8200 rpm completely stock. Plan to keep it until they come out with a better 4 stroke skidoo machine.

The newer 2016+ use a different ECU made by Bosch that has a higher rev limiter than past years. Mine was over 8800 (we dyno tested it)
The biggest gains are always when owners get the revs up with efficient clutching, the PB 80 allows you to do that for relatively cheap vs. tuning & exhaust work.

 

I have three 2014 1200X Renegades with the Ice Attack track.

Myself and oldest Son put the PB80 and secondary on his and mine.

The younger Son left his stock Edrive on.

Whenever we all race the stock Edrive will beat the two with the PB80s every time. Doesn't matter if it a standing start--rolling start--or top end.

The PB80 clutch is bullet proof---However the Edrive has had Z E R O issues.

Just my 2 cents.

Don~

 

In my opinion... and I have run seasons with the edrive and seasons with the Pb80.... I would go the full meal deal meaning:
Header
Tune
Pb80
CR9
Muffler mod

Or

Do the pb80 and Cudney secondary set up . If gains are what you are looking for the cr9 needs to be part of the equation. When you are done you can recoup a lot of your cost or use it on your next sled . Don't do just a PB80 when looking for gains.

I am on my 4th 1200 . My 15 is fully modded . I ordered a new sled but cannot part with my 15 so will run both this season. For the record I would choose option number one . Crank it up and build the 1200 the way it should have been offered .

 

My 100% stock 2017 1200 renegade is slightly faster on a lake then my buds 2011 pb80 renegade both running stock tracks, studs down the middle. Mine definitely seems to have more snap on the trails. Im pulling around 8300rpms stock. From that little comparo the clutch alone wont make a performance difference, but like xtreme mentioned, once you do engine mods thats where the pb80 comes into play.

 

I have three 2014 1200X Renegades with the Ice Attack track.

Myself and oldest Son put the PB80 and secondary on his and mine.

The younger Son left his stock Edrive on.

Whenever we all race the stock Edrive will beat the two with the PB80s every time. Doesn't matter if it a standing start--rolling start--or top end.

The PB80 clutch is bullet proof---However the Edrive has had Z E R O issues.

Just my 2 cents.

Don~

Are you sure it's not the rider Don
You guys better swaps sleds and run them again this winter
Seriously though what rpm increase did you pickup with calibrating the PB80? Wait they're not the newer, higher rev limiter...I'm telling ya bud that's the wake up. It's not much on a bone stock sled, but it's faster clutched right

 

What Dalton spring is the correct replacement for a sacked stock edrive spring in an otherwise stock 1200?

 

My 100% stock 2017 1200 renegade is slightly faster on a lake then my buds 2011 pb80 renegade both running stock tracks, studs down the middle. Mine definitely seems to have more snap on the trails. Im pulling around 8300rpms stock. From that little comparo the clutch alone wont make a performance difference, but like xtreme mentioned, once you do engine mods thats where the pb80 comes into play.

PB80 alone no ... but as stated you have to do secondary in order to get the gains.

 

Does the 16 have the rollers in the Edrive? I don't remember. If so, check if those are flat spotted and replace with the new hex roller/sliders. Not quite as efficient as a roller concept but more consistent performance. Then upgrade to a stiffer primary spring. One of the Daltons or the Goodwin black. The Edrive on a stock machine can be made to run well and trouble free. As Craze and others have said, it does take a little more attention.

 

I just went through this same thing last season with my 16'. I had a PB80 on the shelf from my last 1200 because the TRA was a rattlecan on the XRs, so it was there waiting to be bolted on. I put one season on the edrive and then noticed towards end of the season that RPMs wouldn't go above 7800. Like others experienced, problem was a sacked secondary spring. Doo offers a recall for it and will give you a new belt as well. So...you could ride yours until you notice the 7800 RPM issue and then doo the PB80 and secondary. As others said, if you want performance gains you need to secondary. Mine is now rocking pretty good but i changed everything, including PB80 and spring plus the seconday helix and spring. It's worth it.

Exact same thing here on my 2016, first 800 miles worked great second year revs dropped to 7800, didn't want to be trying to figure out a puzzle brp decided to make for us. I cheated bought cutney pb80 and secondary, problem solved. Btw had pb80 on 2009, 10000 miles when I sold sled and no maintence was required except blowing out with air gin .

 

The rollers in the 16 are indeed hexagonal.

 

What is typical stock max RPM for a 1200? Say '16, '17 or '18 model year.

My RPM's were only into the high 7's at the end of last season. I took it to the dealer for the secondary service bulletin. They replaced the spring and belt. I wasn't able to ride it after that.

 

What is typical stock max RPM for a 1200? Say '16, '17 or '18 model year.

My RPM's were only into the high 7's at the end of last season. I took it to the dealer for the secondary service bulletin. They replaced the spring and belt. I wasn't able to ride it after that.

Bone stock you will be 8000. These sleds seem to run really strong at 8300-8400. Mine jumps to about 8500 and then drops back down to 8300. You should be fine after servicing. Belt can also have some impact on setup.

 

Pretty sure ski doo targets 7800, don't they?

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At 8200 rpm you're leaving a lot of performance on the table. A pb80, with a stiffer spring in it, and a matching secondary setup would wake your sled up a lot.

You could run your factory secondary helix even

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Would the beige torsion spring wound to 18 lbs w stock 16 helix be enough.