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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ski-Doo is saying 1 gallon of XPS oil is now $60 on their site, seems nuts to me. For me, the 850 drinks oil at a rate of roughly 18-20/1, and I go through like 7+ gallons in a winter riding in the deep snow.

What is everyone seeing for pricing at their local dealer? I know some dealers offer re-fills, but that normally only saves 5 or so bucks.


On this point, are we getting robbed by ski-doo? Clearly they don't have their own refinery, so its just one of the big oil brands that is packaging it for them. I've always run XPS oil, but I'm really considering changing to an aftermarket brand as the price can be 50% less. I realize that overall this is small savings per year on an expensive sport, and I should just buck up and buy XPS, but I hate getting ripped off or paying more then I should, and I would just like to be informed here.

Ski-doo obviously recommends their own oil, as its just add on sales for them (the also recommend their own bumpers and linq bags, accessory sales make good money for all), but they also clearly state in the owners manual "if the recommended XPS engine oil is not available, use a 2-stroke lubricant designed for snowmobiles meeting or exceeding the following lubricant industry specifications:"
  1. JASO FD (M345-2004)
  2. SAE Grade 4 (F / M 4)
Does anyone know what oils still fit the bill here? It seems like ski-doo acknowledges that its ok to not run XPS as long as its up to spec? They clearly state it in the owners manual, so its not going to cause any issue with warranty that everyone always seems concerned about.


thoughts??
 

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Okay I'll start, I got 13,500 MI out of my last 800 e tec motor. Compression was the same the day it blew up as the day I bought it. I saw the one good cylinder when the dealer removed the motor and it looked really good. Stator took out this motor. I also just foolishly rebuilt my warrantied new motor. It had 6,000 miles on it. I did this because I no longer have warranty and of all the talk on here about rebuilding a top end at 6,000. What I saw was two Piston skirts completely coated with that black coating from the factory, cylinder walls that looked really good and very little carbon buildup. I too was tempted this year when I seen a sale on an off brand. I'm tight but usually don't scrimp on important stuff so I stayed with XPS. I get a big discount at my dealer anyway so I'm paying probably 45 for a gallon. I guess I'd look at how long I'm going to keep the sled. I even converted over to XPS in my '97 700 Yamaha backup sled. So no I wouldn't try anything else.
 

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I just run XPS because its convenient / easy. Not because I think there would be any fuss if warranty issues were to arrise, but I usually buy in bulk in the spring during the trade shows / dealer open houses. I put it in our G4's, and because I just have it around I even dump it in my mach 809 triple. It stings less to buy 3 cases in the spring at a discount than it does to NEED it mid season and have to spend 60$ plus tax. Not sure what i'd do.
 

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I think the best deal out there is the Mystik JT4 full synthetic, its easy to find around $20/gallon. If your sled burns 20:1 or 7 gallons a season then this stuff is a no-brainer IMO. The only thing is it doesn't have as many detergents as "FD" oil, so you should run some type of Ring Free in your gas (to keep the exhaust valves clean). A lot of people run the JT4 in their e-tec sleds, with no additives. I would spend a little more and run the additives, you're still saving quite a bit of money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
the Jaso FD cert is pretty easy to find on most snowmobile oils, does anyone know what the SAE Grade 4 (F / M 4) is exactly? I dont know what that one actually means. Seems like Ski-Doo makes it tough to understand exactly what to look for here.

The lucas oil also seems like a decent buy. It states that it exceeds Jaso FD, ISO EDG, and API TC, whatever those are. I feel like a brand like Lucas oil is putting out high quality stuff, for all we know it might be even better then XPS as a fraction of the price??


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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
From Wiki:

JASO M345
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JASO M345 is a quality classification standard for two stroke engine oils for engines of Japanese origin. It was introduced by the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (JASO) in 1994 as JASO M345-93 with the quality levels JASO FA, JASO FB and JASO FC – with FC setting the highest standard. It was revised in 2004 as JASO M345:2004 which discontinued the FA level, and introduced the new JASO FD level – the FD level supersedes JASO FC as the highest rating.[1] ISO 13738 is a similar, but stricter, specifcation.
The different quality levels set requirements with regard to properties such as minimum lubrication, minimum detergency, maximum smoke and maximum deposits. A two stroke engine oil is granted the official JASO seal if it has been independently tested. The seal is a rectangle; in the upper quarter of the rectangle will be a serial number, and the lower three quarters will just have the letters FB, FC or FD.
Overview[edit]
JASO FA – original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking. Supposed to exceed API-TC.[2]
JASO FB – improved requirements over FA with regard to lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
JASO FC – lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher requirements over FB with regard to detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
JASO FD - same as FC, except with far higher detergency requirement.
 

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'14 Summit SP 600 '21 Expedition Sport 600 EFI
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$50 a gal for XPS e-tec. $38 a gal for XPS semi- synthetic (for the 600 EFI) at my local dealer. 4 gallons each sled for the season. As was said, not a cheap sport... got to pay to play.

Cost of gas is the wild card this season. The way I look at it, I'd rather burn it in the sleds than the vehicles.
 

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Ski-Doo is saying 1 gallon of XPS oil is now $60 on their site, seems nuts to me. For me, the 850 drinks oil at a rate of roughly 18-20/1, and I go through like 7+ gallons in a winter riding in the deep snow.

What is everyone seeing for pricing at their local dealer? I know some dealers offer re-fills, but that normally only saves 5 or so bucks.


On this point, are we getting robbed by ski-doo? Clearly they don't have their own refinery, so its just one of the big oil brands that is packaging it for them. I've always run XPS oil, but I'm really considering changing to an aftermarket brand as the price can be 50% less. I realize that overall this is small savings per year on an expensive sport, and I should just buck up and buy XPS, but I hate getting ripped off or paying more then I should, and I would just like to be informed here.

Ski-doo obviously recommends their own oil, as its just add on sales for them (the also recommend their own bumpers and linq bags, accessory sales make good money for all), but they also clearly state in the owners manual "if the recommended XPS engine oil is not available, use a 2-stroke lubricant designed for snowmobiles meeting or exceeding the following lubricant industry specifications:"
  1. JASO FD (M345-2004)
  2. SAE Grade 4 (F / M 4)
Does anyone know what oils still fit the bill here? It seems like ski-doo acknowledges that its ok to not run XPS as long as its up to spec? They clearly state it in the owners manual, so its not going to cause any issue with warranty that everyone always seems concerned about.


thoughts??
I’m not trying to be a Richard here and I can’t really relate since I have a 4 stroke, BUT, if you bought a sled in the last few years or this year, your paying minimum $13,000 for the sled, more likely $16,000, is it worth the savings on oil then? Fuel is going to probably be something like $3.25-$4 a gallon minimum on 87 octane, premium obviously more, so why cheat what makes the sled go?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I’m not trying to be a Richard here and I can’t really relate since I have a 4 stroke, BUT, if you bought a sled in the last few years or this year, your paying minimum $13,000 for the sled, more likely $16,000, is it worth the savings on oil then? Fuel is going to probably be something like $3.25-$4 a gallon minimum on 87 octane, premium obviously more, so why cheat what makes the sled go?


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You are 100% correct in your thoughts here, a small expensive overall in the cost of sledding, but for me its more of the concern of over-paying, and trying to gain the knowledge of if XPS is not available what can I use.

Look at it this way. Lets say you go buy a new $100k F350 diesel truck. Dealership has a diesel pump and recommend you purchase their diesel for $6 per gallon. Across the street is a Shell Gas station, that has diesel for $3.50 per gallon. Where would you fill up? The recommended diesel at the dealership, or across the street? same thing applies here with $60 XPS vs $35 Lucas oil. Ski-Doo says clear as day you can use Jaso-FD oil, and it will not void a warranty.

If you bought a $100k truck would you try to save $2.50 per gallon of diesel? thats even a smaller expense in the big picture.
 

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'14 Summit SP 600 '21 Expedition Sport 600 EFI
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Could sell the sleds, and save the $$ spent on oil & gas. Not how I want to live my life, pinching pennies.

Life is short... winter is even shorter.
 

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At $60.00/gallon, and the rate my '18 burned oil, on a fairly typical ride I would have burned over $35.00 in oil alone. That's over $70.00 a weekend in just oil.

Being cheap or not, that's real money.

I'm sure glad I'm riding a 4 stroker these days.
 
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Always ran Ski Doo 2S synthetic in my 850's, no failures to date so I see it as cheap insurance. Get your empty gallons refilled and save money and never have to broach an oil question if you need a warranty repair.
 

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Here's the deal with XPS as I see it - there's a lot of stuff going on with oil. It has to lubricate, clean, not build up, withstand certain conditions, etc. While 'Doo may not own their own refinery, you can bet that XPS is made to their spec - it's not like they're just repackaging another oil. It has a somewhat unique almost plasticky / waxy texture and a weird smell that no other oil I know of has.

Is it BETTER than all the other oils? Likely not. Is it DIFFERENT than all the other oils? 100%. Does that difference make it the best oil to run in a 'Doo? 100%.

There are other great oils. They'll likely even do somethings better. Making this up, but Amsoil might produce less carbon deposits, meaning more ride time between cleaning your raves - but do a worse job at keeping the internals clean. For some, that tradeoff might be worth it, for others, it isn't. The problem is we don't know which oil is better at what. We just know that Doo engineering their oil and engines to be the best match for each other there could be.

Put it this way. If they could make an even better oil, and charge you accordingly, they would...that's kind of their thing!

So yeah, I run XPS. It's not any more expensive than any other quality oil I can find that I'd trust...frequently cheaper.

Oh, and the JASO / SAE grades don't mean a whole lot for what you care about. It's more of a regulations / environmental / meeting basic standards of classification thing...not a measure of quality.
 
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