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Who Makes XPS E Tech 2T oil for BRP?

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6K views 30 replies 17 participants last post by  Skandic Wide Track  
#1 ·
Wondering who makes the XPS E Tech 2T oil for BRP? It says on the jug Made in USA.
 
#8 ·
The question is, do you trust it, or do you believe it is an equivalent to big pharma? I think that they are legit, but at the same time I am also thinking that at this point (2024) that the OEMs should have already worked on a way to develop a 2S oil standard much like is done in the automotive world. I understand the need to make a profit on such a small segment after spending millions in R&D, but there is time when the oil sales have paid for the R&D and there needs to be new standards.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Daag44 said:
The question is, do you trust it, or do you believe it is an equivalent to big pharma ?
I think that they are legit, but at the same time I am also thinking that
at this point (2024) that the OEM's should have already worked on a way to develop a 2T oil standard much like is done in the automotive world.
I understand the need to make a profit on such a small segment after spending millions in R&D,
but there is time when the oil sales have paid for the R&D and there needs to be new standards.
Click to expand...
The requested standards/specifications for 2-stroke oil already exist today.
Just read carefully the data sheets for the 2-stroke oil you as a consumer are considering buying.
As a consumer, you can make it easy for yourself by always choosing a 2-stroke oil that meets the highest possible specification that exists at the moment →
→ ISO-L-EGD

....But remember to NEVER ever use a dedicated marine 2-stroke oil in a 2-stroke Snowmobile engine.


2-stroke oil specifications:


1. API 2-stroke Oil Specifications:

Spec.StatusDescription
TAObsoleteProposed classification for two-stroke engine oils required for extremely-small engines, typically less than 50 cc.
Engine Tests for this classification were under preparation when the Coordinating European Council (CEC) withdrew support for this category.
TBObsoleteProposed classification for two-stroke engine oils required for the engines of motor-scooters and other highly-loaded small engines,
typically between 50 and 200 cc.
The test no longer requires this category, and the classification has been abandoned.
TCCurrentDesigned for various high-performance engines,
such as those on motorcycles and snowmobiles, and chain saws with high fuel-oil ratios - but not outboards.
Two-cycle engine oils designed for API Classification TC address ring-sticking, pre-ignition and cylinder scuffing problems.
TDObsoleteDesigned for water-cooled outboard engines,
this classification used the identical engine test to that in the National Marine Manufacturers association (NMMA) TC-W category.
API TD has been superseded, and is no longer accepted by the NMMA,
who now recommend oils meeting the requirements of TC-W3 for water-cooled outboard engines.

2. JASO 2-stroke Oil Specifications:

Japeneese motorcycle manufacturers found the limits demanded by the american API TC specifications too loose.
Oils meeting the API TC standard still produced excessive smoke and could not prevent exhaust blocking.
Therefore the Japanese Automobile Standards Organization ( JASO ) introduced the following 2T oil specifications:

  • JASO FA , Original spec established regulating lubricity, detergency, initial torque, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking.
  • JASO FB , Increased lubricity, detergency, exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FA.
  • JASO FC , Lubricity and initial torque requirements same as FB, however far higher detergency,
    exhaust smoke and exhaust system blocking requirements over FB.
  • JASO FD , Same as FC with far higher detergency requirement.


3. ISO 2-stroke Oil Specifications:

During the late-90's it became clear that the JASO Specifications could not satisfy the requirements of the modern two-stroke engines.
The ISO standards listed below were developed to address this shortcoming.
Their basis is the relevant JASO standard + they require an additional 3 hour test engine (Honda) to be run to quantify piston cleanliness and detergent effect.

  • ISO-L-EGB , Same requirements as JASO FB + test for piston cleanliness.
  • ISO-L-EGC , Same requirements as JASO FC + test for piston cleanliness.
  • ISO-L-EGD , Same requirements as JASO FD + test for piston cleanliness + detergent effect.




The picture below is from the Ski-Doo manual clearly proves that you are not forced to use BRP 'XPS' oil.
Image
 
#9 ·
you can get Evinrude xd100 for $55 a gal at walmart
 
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#20 · (Edited)
Gin la pine said:
This does the trick over here in Canada
View attachment 2065870
or this one
View attachment 2065874
Cant stand the XPS fume either.... that makes me wonder whats so special in it ???
That burn the eyes, smell like crap...
Click to expand...
(y) That Shell Advance Snow Ultra 2-stroke oil (y)

Meets the requirements of:
  • JASO: FD
  • ISO: L- EGD
---------------------------------------------------

(y) That SINTO Performa 2-stroke oil (y)

Meets the requirements of:
  • JASO: FD
  • ISO: L- EGD
----------------------------------------
 
#25 ·
Shell and Amsoil is a No Go for me

Gin la pine said:
Corrected original post , so there is no confusion ... Thx Lasse !

About the Syntro we've tore down multiple engine thru the years from yz 125 to banshee 350 along with multiples sled.....Its clean and does the job but its pretty local...
Click to expand...
Both Shell and Amsoil are a no go for me. Note how I replied to your post with no reference to either of them ;)
 
#30 ·
Inquiring Minds

My850Yamaha said:
I love oil threads. Once and for all Lube tech makes XPS oil for Ski-Doo. An on-site tech confirmed this and says each sled manufacturer have different specs. Accounting confirmed this. Any good journalist confirms information from at least 2 parties.
Click to expand...
Same here. Thanks for sharing your research. The first confirmation came from a DooTalk member who had visited the lab and recognized it from the BRP video. He also saw the end product for the Arctic Cat CTEC 2S oil and possibly Polaris iirc. That was many years ago. I then called and they confirmed. This was when I learnt they were building a dyno room specifically for snowmobiles to perform their own in-house testing. I was left impressed with Lube-Tech taking design and testing to the next level.

I wish that I new more about 2S oils. The Motor Oil Geek sets a good example for the four strokes. The last time we had something good for 2S oils was from Robert Verret. I have actually asked the owners of two reputable oil companies if they would be willing to invest time to give us on DooTalk a little history behind the development of 2S oils. I am mostly interested in the past 25 years when the snowmobile manufacturers were pushing their engines for a cleaner burn and better fuel/oil consumption.

The biggest challenge for a two stroke is the NOx emissions. If it was not for NOx, the two stroke could burn lean and cooler in the midrange. This is called LOP (Lean Of Peak) EGT, also known as jetting for fuel consumption. This was long figured out in WW2, so nothing new. Hence, all snowmobiles run on the Rich fuel side of stoic. When it is said that an E-TEC runs lean, it is 'leaner' than a carb.

Unlike a four stroke, running LOP on a two stroke jacks the NOx. For the number of snowmobiles, this is not something that I would worry about, but regulations remain a problem. However, I think this would be an fun challenge for the two stroke tuners to see how well this could be accomplished with snowmobiles. There is a transition phase in the midrange when the combustion needs to run Rich which can be determined through percentage of Knock. I do not know what rpm/load this would be, but the effect would hopefully be a fuel and oil effecient two stroke.

BRP are at the forefront of two stroke combustion. That gives me hope they are working to solve the NOx emissions. Twenty years ago, the prospect of an OEM two stroke turbo was considered by many as a fools hope, and yet they are being mass produced.
 
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