I know what your going through, and have also read about many different alternatives when rebuilding. Most of the time it seems to be the PTO/clutch side bearing that is the most prone to failure. The PTO bearing let go and started vibrating on my brothers 1998 FIII 700 last year with 11,500 miles on it. Luckily it never locked up or blew apart. Taking into consideration how long the original lasted, the repair shop decided to pack the new bearing with isoflex grease instead of doing any drilling of the case. Isoflex is also used in most if not all of the new twin engines. I guess it depends on what you find when you tear it down as each situation can be different.
VRANK BEARING PROBLEM 1998 MACH ONE
I OWN A 1998 MACH ONE 700 WITH 2400KMS ON IT, I HAVE SEIZED CRANK BEARINGS. I AM LOOKING FOR ANY INFO ON THE REPAIR FOR THIS, I HAVE HEARD THAT THE OIL GALLERY NEEDS TO BE DRILLED, AS WELL I HAVE HEARD NOT TO DO THIS- JUST TURN THE OIL PUMP UP. DOES ANY ONE HAVE ANY INFO ON THIS OR ANY SPECS ON THE TRUE REPAIR? I HAVE HEARD BOTH OF THESE REPAIRS FROM 2 SKI DOO DEALERS, ONE SAID DO NOT DRILL, THE OTHER SAID TO???
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
I know what your going through, and have also read about many different alternatives when rebuilding. Most of the time it seems to be the PTO/clutch side bearing that is the most prone to failure. The PTO bearing let go and started vibrating on my brothers 1998 FIII 700 last year with 11,500 miles on it. Luckily it never locked up or blew apart. Taking into consideration how long the original lasted, the repair shop decided to pack the new bearing with isoflex grease instead of doing any drilling of the case. Isoflex is also used in most if not all of the new twin engines. I guess it depends on what you find when you tear it down as each situation can be different.I OWN A 1998 MACH ONE 700 WITH 2400KMS ON IT, I HAVE SEIZED CRANK BEARINGS. I AM LOOKING FOR ANY INFO ON THE REPAIR FOR THIS, I HAVE HEARD THAT THE OIL GALLERY NEEDS TO BE DRILLED, AS WELL I HAVE HEARD NOT TO DO THIS- JUST TURN THE OIL PUMP UP. DOES ANY ONE HAVE ANY INFO ON THIS OR ANY SPECS ON THE TRUE REPAIR? I HAVE HEARD BOTH OF THESE REPAIRS FROM 2 SKI DOO DEALERS, ONE SAID DO NOT DRILL, THE OTHER SAID TO???
[/quote]
As well mine was on the pto side, it was not fully seized- but was on its way. I too was going to pack the bearing with isoflex. How many miles has you brothers sled worked since.
I know what your going through, and have also read about many different alternatives when rebuilding. Most of the time it seems to be the PTO/clutch side bearing that is the most prone to failure. The PTO bearing let go and started vibrating on my brothers 1998 FIII 700 last year with 11,500 miles on it. Luckily it never locked up or blew apart. Taking into consideration how long the original lasted, the repair shop decided to pack the new bearing with isoflex grease instead of doing any drilling of the case. Isoflex is also used in most if not all of the new twin engines. I guess it depends on what you find when you tear it down as each situation can be different.I OWN A 1998 MACH ONE 700 WITH 2400KMS ON IT, I HAVE SEIZED CRANK BEARINGS. I AM LOOKING FOR ANY INFO ON THE REPAIR FOR THIS, I HAVE HEARD THAT THE OIL GALLERY NEEDS TO BE DRILLED, AS WELL I HAVE HEARD NOT TO DO THIS- JUST TURN THE OIL PUMP UP. DOES ANY ONE HAVE ANY INFO ON THIS OR ANY SPECS ON THE TRUE REPAIR? I HAVE HEARD BOTH OF THESE REPAIRS FROM 2 SKI DOO DEALERS, ONE SAID DO NOT DRILL, THE OTHER SAID TO???
[/quote]
As well mine was on the pto side, it was not fully seized- but was on its way. I too was going to pack the bearing with isoflex. How many miles has you brothers sled worked since.
[/quote]
Not too many yet. It was late season last year. Only been run about 600 miles since the rebuild. Ask around and look for some reputable shops for advice on your specific situation. How far into the motor are you now? May want to have your chosen shop be the ones to tear it down if you have not already so they can see and diagnose as they go. Our motor had so many miles on it we decided to also put new pistons ans rings as well. Some shops will have an inventory of new, used, or re-conditioned cranks, jugs, heads etc to save you some money if needed.
I drilled a hole and tapped 1/4X28 threads on the outside of the case. The process is pretty simple, but one MUST be very careful not to get shavings into the case. I then use Amsoil synthetic racing grease and pump into the engine while running--then remove the grease zerk and install a allen head set screw to seal the hole. I will try to explain my procedure--I removed the clutch, measured in 5/16" form the edge of the case (PTO end). Then drilled a 7/32 dia hole straight down about .480". The case is about 1/2" thick in that area. Then carefully removed all shavings. Next drill for threading a 1/4 " tap about 3/8" --clean shavings again. Next tap 1/4X28 threads into the case. Remove all shavings again. Now, back to the 7/32 dia drill and very very carefully continue drilling straight down. Watch for black rubber from the PTO seal in your drill bit. As soon as you get that--STOP.
Clean ALL debris from the hole. Next, sharpen a nail--insert innto the hole and give it a fair whack with a hammer--it will penetrate thru the steel edge of the seal. Steel does not leave shavings when a nail is pushed thru it, rather it just flares out on the other side. Install grease zerk and shoot grease in--this will be forced thru the bearings and into the case, so may stink for a while, possibly even foul a plug. I do this twice a year on my 97 700 triple triple and have no problems at 7000 miles. For those that may say the grease will wash out--well, if it does, no harm, no foul because it is getting lubed from that. If it doesn't wash out, the grease will keep it lubed. Amsoil racing grease is supposed to withstand 500 degrees for 300 minutes. Now understand that this is what I did with my engine and has worked very well for me. I am NOT recommending this for anyone--you'll just have to doo what you deem fit for your application. It will not save an engine that has bearing problems already. By the way, I installed this at about 3000 miles . It wasn't until then that I found out there could be a problem with this engine and I didn't want mine to blow--way too spendy. This process took me about 1/2 hour to do and cost less than $10
Clean ALL debris from the hole. Next, sharpen a nail--insert innto the hole and give it a fair whack with a hammer--it will penetrate thru the steel edge of the seal. Steel does not leave shavings when a nail is pushed thru it, rather it just flares out on the other side. Install grease zerk and shoot grease in--this will be forced thru the bearings and into the case, so may stink for a while, possibly even foul a plug. I do this twice a year on my 97 700 triple triple and have no problems at 7000 miles. For those that may say the grease will wash out--well, if it does, no harm, no foul because it is getting lubed from that. If it doesn't wash out, the grease will keep it lubed. Amsoil racing grease is supposed to withstand 500 degrees for 300 minutes. Now understand that this is what I did with my engine and has worked very well for me. I am NOT recommending this for anyone--you'll just have to doo what you deem fit for your application. It will not save an engine that has bearing problems already. By the way, I installed this at about 3000 miles . It wasn't until then that I found out there could be a problem with this engine and I didn't want mine to blow--way too spendy. This process took me about 1/2 hour to do and cost less than $10
Your 98 has the oil hole allready drilled from the factory. This was Doo's bandaid fix from the 97 that had no hole. Doo's reccommendation is to turn up the pump.
Not sure without looking it up but I dont think you have the seal between the 2 pto bearings so if you Isoflex it it will just run thru both bearings and burn away shortly.
The 2000 model Mach 1 had another oil line going directly to the PTO bearing which seemed to solve the problem then they discontinued the model!
Complete re-man cranks can be had for just under $500.00 right from Skidoo, they actually have better specs than the original.
Not sure without looking it up but I dont think you have the seal between the 2 pto bearings so if you Isoflex it it will just run thru both bearings and burn away shortly.
The 2000 model Mach 1 had another oil line going directly to the PTO bearing which seemed to solve the problem then they discontinued the model!
Complete re-man cranks can be had for just under $500.00 right from Skidoo, they actually have better specs than the original.
I have a 98 that "DIDN'T "have the update hole in the case. "It blew up". Tare the motor down and put the hole in, it is real easy we can walk you threw it. The 99 crank and case has a seal on it so that the greese stays in that area. Yes the crank has a seal built into it. I picked up a 99 crank and cut it out and drilled the hole, no problem after that. Of corse they want you to turn up the pump, you will be buying more oil.I OWN A 1998 MACH ONE 700 WITH 2400KMS ON IT, I HAVE SEIZED CRANK BEARINGS. I AM LOOKING FOR ANY INFO ON THE REPAIR FOR THIS, I HAVE HEARD THAT THE OIL GALLERY NEEDS TO BE DRILLED, AS WELL I HAVE HEARD NOT TO DO THIS- JUST TURN THE OIL PUMP UP. DOES ANY ONE HAVE ANY INFO ON THIS OR ANY SPECS ON THE TRUE REPAIR? I HAVE HEARD BOTH OF THESE REPAIRS FROM 2 SKI DOO DEALERS, ONE SAID DO NOT DRILL, THE OTHER SAID TO???
I have probaly done this to a dozen sleds, it's a big job but worth doing. Use factory gaskets only, the after market ones will bight you in the butt.
Fix it before it blows, other wise it cost more than that sled is worth. Or put a 809 in !
what is the cost to get a 809 and would it fit right in a 98 mach 1R...
Thanks
Thanks
Used 809 anywhere from about $750 to $1000 depending on how many miles on the motor condition and so on , fresh rebuild anywhere from
$1000-$2000 on up depending on how much you want to tweak it and yes it will bolt in .
$1000-$2000 on up depending on how much you want to tweak it and yes it will bolt in .
ok If you are still willing could you walk me thru the process. I have a 97 mach1 700 trip and have the jugs off currently. I just bought the sled with a bad head oring and ordered a complete gasket set from Ski-doo. What would I have to do and also how do I check the factory pump setting and adjust it to allow more oiling? the sled has 1600 miles on it...as far as I know.I have a 98 that "DIDN'T "have the update hole in the case. "It blew up". Tare the motor down and put the hole in, it is real easy we can walk you threw it. The 99 crank and case has a seal on it so that the greese stays in that area. Yes the crank has a seal built into it. I picked up a 99 crank and cut it out and drilled the hole, no problem after that. Of corse they want you to turn up the pump, you will be buying more oil.
I have probaly done this to a dozen sleds, it's a big job but worth doing. Use factory gaskets only, the after market ones will bight you in the butt.
Fix it before it blows, other wise it cost more than that sled is worth. Or put a 809 in !
thanks
Make sure you get a 98 Mach Z motor and it will bolt right in. If you get a 99 you have to change the wiring harness, ignition module and DESS, if you don't you have to use the end housing and flywheel off the 98 and time the 99 to 98 specs. I just went through this installing a 99 809 in my 98 Mach 1. It goes like stink.what is the cost to get a 809 and would it fit right in a 98 mach 1R...
Thanks
I got 10,000 mile with no problems on my Mach 1 motor and the only thing I did was turn up the oil pump.
my sled i bought four years ago and when i bought it i knew about the problem took it to my friend who is a ski doo mechanic ... and he heard the bearings banging around ... so he tore it down and got a updated crank and drilled the case turned the oil up a little bit not much you dont even know your using more oil ..... i have put on like 3000 km a year since then and havent had one problem with the motor itself ...... so i dont know about not drilling the case.... my friend didnt and he had 2 cranks in his then he drilled it .. hasnt had a problem..... I think it was 1300 hundred dollars for the parts for my rebuild when i did it 4 years ago........
Ok I want to drill the hole..but looking at the case it appears that there may be one already there. I can see the Factory cast hole that is not all the way thru. Then at about 1/2 in behind that there is a 5/32 hole drilled at an angle and appears to be exiting between the 2 bearings on the PTO side. I tried to upload a picture not sure if it will come outmy sled i bought four years ago and when i bought it i knew about the problem took it to my friend who is a ski doo mechanic ... and he heard the bearings banging around ... so he tore it down and got a updated crank and drilled the case turned the oil up a little bit not much you dont even know your using more oil ..... i have put on like 3000 km a year since then and havent had one problem with the motor itself ...... so i dont know about not drilling the case.... my friend didnt and he had 2 cranks in his then he drilled it .. hasnt had a problem..... I think it was 1300 hundred dollars for the parts for my rebuild when i did it 4 years ago........
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Hi I have two 809's I am rebuilding currently. I know the newer 809's used isoflex. But I have heard some people still drill the oil passage. The motors I have are a 99, and a 2000 I THINK!. They both have two oil seals on the pto bearing. WHAT IS RECCOMENDED?......WHAT SHOULD I DO?....Any case mods needed?..or just repack with isoflex?....I have also heard some people add isoflex yearly?...any triple experts please chime in!....I am bumping this old post....Ok I want to drill the hole..but looking at the case it appears that there may be one already there. I can see the Factory cast hole that is not all the way thru. Then at about 1/2 in behind that there is a 5/32 hole drilled at an angle and appears to be exiting between the 2 bearings on the PTO side. I tried to upload a picture not sure if it will come out
Hi there,Ok I want to drill the hole..but looking at the case it appears that there may be one already there. I can see the Factory cast hole that is not all the way thru. Then at about 1/2 in behind that there is a 5/32 hole drilled at an angle and appears to be exiting between the 2 bearings on the PTO side. I tried to upload a picture not sure if it will come out
i just looked at my 98 Mach 1 and it is not drilled. Can this be drilled while the motor is in the machine? As for the crank I do believe it is in good shape. Are the connecting rods (brown) supposed to have a little play in them? They move slightly side to side.
True side to side movement is no good. You need to find out if your connecting rod is just slipping over the bearing or if there is actual play between the bearing and connecting rod. I achieved this by bringing the connecting rod that I was checking to its highest position. Then with one finger holding the bottom of the connecting rod and lower bearing up against the crank lobe. Then try to wiggle it just a little bit. You may have some very light movement but nothing substantial. As for iso flex in a 98 699 triple your waisting your money its not gonna be there after 1000km. Also would like to mention not all 98 triple 699 are drilled by factory. I just had mine go through a seized outer pto bearing. I got it back up and running just in time to store it yay. Oh yeah my point, mine was not drilled and i did not drill it as i am going to ride it one more season with original crank and then do a top and bottom rebuild with the only crank that comes with a no questions asked 1 year warranty and wiesco pistons. so all in all as long as your crank bearings on the outside seize up it will not cost you more than a gasket set and 3 bearings. In my case 120$ with tax.Hi there,
i just looked at my 98 Mach 1 and it is not drilled. Can this be drilled while the motor is in the machine? As for the crank I do believe it is in good shape. Are the connecting rods (brown) supposed to have a little play in them? They move slightly side to side.
Sadly you need to pull the engine and tear it appart.Hi there,
i just looked at my 98 Mach 1 and it is not drilled. Can this be drilled while the motor is in the machine? As for the crank I do believe it is in good shape. Are the connecting rods (brown) supposed to have a little play in them? They move slightly side to side.
Triple .. crankcase oil mod ** PIC **
http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=365077&st=0&p=2696708&#entry2696708
http://www.dootalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=365077&st=0&p=2696708&#entry2696708
The oiling hole is NOT there on the 98's from the factory. This year was especially horrible for PTO crank bearing failure. I know because I had a brand new 98 FIII 700 and BRP stopped replacing my cranks after the third one. Sled was maintained and serviced by the deal since it was under warranty.
The casting divot pictured above doesn't have the correct angle to go to the outside PTO bearing!
See the link provided by z800 as it has a few different variations for this with pictures included.
The casting divot pictured above doesn't have the correct angle to go to the outside PTO bearing!
See the link provided by z800 as it has a few different variations for this with pictures included.
Is it possible some late models have the casting divot filled and an additional hole drilled to go directly to the outside bearing? I was surprised that 2 other casings i have seen besides mine have the divot filled with aluminum while those who perform the mod usually leave the old oil passage open.The oiling hole is NOT there on the 98's from the factory. This year was especially horrible for PTO crank bearing failure. I know because I had a brand new 98 FIII 700 and BRP stopped replacing my cranks after the third one. Sled was maintained and serviced by the deal since it was under warranty.
The casting divot pictured above doesn't have the correct angle to go to the outside PTO bearing!
See the link provided by z800 as it has a few different variations for this with pictures included.
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