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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi I have a 2018 tundra LT ace 600. The machine came with factory track 1.5". I am considering upgrading the track to a bigger lug size for better performance in deep snow especially when pulling, i notice that the machine would struggle when pulling a sled in deep snow. Im also considering a used xtreme. Is this a good upgrade and if so can someone recommend some considerations when choosing a new track?

Thanks!
 

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A friend has a paddle track on his tundra 550 LT nstalled by the previous owner, but I don’t know if the gearing or anything else was changed. I don’t actually understand all the other factors that go into it, from power to clutch to gearing to lug height, and how they all relate— I’d love to see a clear explanation. As for your machine struggling, do you mean that it spins out (I.e has enough torque but not enough traction) or do you mean that the clutch is slipping or something? I too wondered if a TX would be very good at hauling heavy loads at slow speeds; I understand it has the power, but is it ‘geared’ well enough to do slow heavy pulling as well? (I understand it’s not a Skandic)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
A friend has a paddle track on his tundra 550 LT nstalled by the previous owner, but I don't know if the gearing or anything else was changed. I don't actually understand all the other factors that go into it, from power to clutch to gearing to lug height, and how they all relate- I'd love to see a clear explanation. As for your machine struggling, do you mean that it spins out (I.e has enough torque but not enough traction) or do you mean that the clutch is slipping or something? I too wondered if a TX would be very good at hauling heavy loads at slow speeds; I understand it has the power, but is it 'geared' well enough to do slow heavy pulling as well? (I understand it's not a Skandic)
Yes hopefully someone can chime in on the considerations you mentioned. Last thing I want to do is waste money and possibly damage my machine. My sled has the traction issue in deep snow (spins out). If a better track would serve me, then I would probably get one. Hopefully someone can chime in. Thanks!
 

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Yes hopefully someone can chime in on the considerations you mentioned. Last thing I want to do is waste money and possibly damage my machine. My sled has the traction issue in deep snow (spins out). If a better track would serve me, then I would probably get one. Hopefully someone can chime in. Thanks!
Well, you could try a deeper lug, but in the end, its only a 16" wide track. One thing that makes a huge difference is swapping out the 8 tooth drivers for 7 tooth. Much better towing ability and better engagement. I did that to my LT ACE. Night and day. A deeper lug might help, but then you start getting into other issues like increased hyfax wear. At some point, you may just have to get a WT sled.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Well, you could try a deeper lug, but in the end, its only a 16" wide track. One thing that makes a huge difference is swapping out the 8 tooth drivers for 7 tooth. Much better towing ability and better engagement. I did that to my LT ACE. Night and day. A deeper lug might help, but then you start getting into other issues like increased hyfax wear. At some point, you may just have to get a WT sled.
Sounds good, could you provide me with a little more information? What parts am I replacing im not familiar with drivers. Thanks!
 

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Sounds good, could you provide me with a little more information? What parts am I replacing im not familiar with drivers. Thanks!
The drivers are the plastic cogs on the drive shaft that drive the track. Tundra comes with 8 tooth. Fine for trail riding and light use, but if you work them, break trail etc, the 7 tooth effectively gear it down. You cant gear the ACE Tundra down in the chain case. Wahl Racing and Avid both make 7 tooth drivers for the Tundra driveshaft. You'll need to press off the old and press the new ones on. Both companies sell an adaptor to allow you to press them on over the lip on the shaft. Takes a few hours but so, so worth it.

The Lynx Tundras in Europe come with 7 tooth drivers.
 
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You may find that the 7-tooth and a 2" track is the way to go for serious off trail ridin'. Chaincase very limited. You may have a 51 that could be swapped to a 53 that the later models use. Not much but sometimes every little bit helps....
 

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Related to the driver question - when you switch from 8 to 7, I'm assuming the diameter of the driver is proportionately smaller. Yet the cogs the drivers grab on the track are the same distance apart. How does the same track work with different drivers? It would seem to me once you switch drivers the cogs on the track would need to be closer together? I don't think this is the case but can't quite wrap my mind around it. Reason I ask is on my 900 ACE I put in a 2'' paddle track. I would have liked to go to 2.5, but didn't have the needed clearance up front with the front cooler. I'm assuming switching drivers would have allowed me the room for the larger paddle. Also, I don't think a 600 ACE tundra would have any problem turning a 2" paddle with stock gearing. They are already geared so low.
 

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In regards to the question about using Tundra Xtreme pulling a sled and low speeds, we have hauled a lot of firewood in a medium Otter ice fishing sled with our Tundra Xtreme without any problems.

Tundra Xtreme is geared pretty low; spec sheet indicates about 2400 RPM for "engagement" if I recall correctly. I do a lot of low speed (5-10 mph) "crawling" through the woods.

The tough part of towing is dragging another snowmobile that is dead; have done that a few times....
 
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Related to the driver question - when you switch from 8 to 7, I'm assuming the diameter of the driver is proportionately smaller. Yet the cogs the drivers grab on the track are the same distance apart. How does the same track work with different drivers? It would seem to me once you switch drivers the cogs on the track would need to be closer together? I don't think this is the case but can't quite wrap my mind around it. Reason I ask is on my 900 ACE I put in a 2'' paddle track. I would have liked to go to 2.5, but didn't have the needed clearance up front with the front cooler. I'm assuming switching drivers would have allowed me the room for the larger paddle. Also, I don't think a 600 ACE tundra would have any problem turning a 2" paddle with stock gearing. They are already geared so low.
The 600 ACE would have no problem turning it in normal conditions. What happens with the 8 tooth driver equipped sleds, stock track, is that in certain conditions (deep snow, pulling a load) it won't engage the clutch sufficiently to start turning and you'll start slipping. This has been documented. Most users won't experience this. I have, and thats why I made the switch. I believe it was member AvalancheAK that made the initial recommendation on the swap. A 2" track would exacerbate the slipping issue IMHO unless you're geared down. Running lots of packed trails wouldn't be much fun either. As far as your 900, a 7 tooth driver should give you enough room.
 
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Thanks Klondiker. Just to make sure I follow, switching to 7 tooth doesn't cause any problems with gripping the lugs on the track vs 8 tooth? I can say the 2" track has been a non issue running on packed trails. Most people that want to go to the deeper lug do it because they don't spend much time on packed trails. Of course everything is a compromise. I travel with 4 summits that have 2.5" tracks and again not a problem. If you're not a racer, you run scratchers to keep them cool, they work fine on the trail for the limited amount of time we are on them. My assumption would be that most people running Tundra's aren't trail riders, as the machine really isn't made for trails. Originally I had a 1.75" X 16 X 137 on my 900 Renegade with Rmotion. I switched it to a 2" X 16 X 146 with Tmotion. Offtrail performance is so much better with larger lugs. My next (4th sled) will probably be an Expedition Sport with 600ACE. First thing I will do is swap out to a 2" track. I haven't been that impressed with the 1.5 Charger in off trail applications. We have 3 exp sport 900's in our group. the 1.5 charger is biased to on trail use in my opinion. If I were the OP I'd try the 2" track with the original drivers first. If it seems to be geared to high then I'd go with the the 7 tooth. I noticed no difference in low end grunt on my 900 ACE renegade going from 137 1.25" lug on a 15" track after switching to a 146X2" X 16" track. I realize it does have more HP and torque though.
 

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Thanks Klondiker. Just to make sure I follow, switching to 7 tooth doesn't cause any problems with gripping the lugs on the track vs 8 tooth? I can say the 2" track has been a non issue running on packed trails. Most people that want to go to the deeper lug do it because they don't spend much time on packed trails. Of course everything is a compromise. I travel with 4 summits that have 2.5" tracks and again not a problem. If you're not a racer, you run scratchers to keep them cool, they work fine on the trail for the limited amount of time we are on them. My assumption would be that most people running Tundra's aren't trail riders, as the machine really isn't made for trails. Originally I had a 1.75" X 16 X 137 on my 900 Renegade with Rmotion. I switched it to a 2" X 16 X 146 with Tmotion. Offtrail performance is so much better with larger lugs. My next (4th sled) will probably be an Expedition Sport with 600ACE. First thing I will do is swap out to a 2" track. I haven't been that impressed with the 1.5 Charger in off trail applications. We have 3 exp sport 900's in our group. the 1.5 charger is biased to on trail use in my opinion. If I were the OP I'd try the 2" track with the original drivers first. If it seems to be geared to high then I'd go with the the 7 tooth. I noticed no difference in low end grunt on my 900 ACE renegade going from 137 1.25" lug on a 15" track after switching to a 146X2" X 16" track. I realize it does have more HP and torque though.
As you said, everything's a compromise. I find the Charger OK, but just OK. The 7 tooth drivers (assuming the pitch it correct) have no issues gripping. They're extroverts as well. Id like to try 2" track and see how it does. Im thinking you'd just start digging a deeper trench. Track speed just isn't the 600 ACE 's forte. Regardless, swapping the drivers is a must-do on the 16" wide track 4 stroke sleds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks everyone for the insightful comments (the whole reason for this website!!).
 

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I don't feel you need 7 tooth on the 900 ACE with a 2" X 16" X 146" track. Mine has no power clutching or trenching issues. I would like to try them though.
 

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I don't feel you need 7 tooth on the 900 ACE with a 2" X 16" X 146" track. Mine has no power clutching or trenching issues. I would like to try them though.
I believe it was member avalancheAK who had some posts that the 900 Skandics were having this issue in very specific circumstances. This was a year or two ago. Consensus seemed to be that while the 600ACE Skandics had the gearing dialled, the 900s were a bit high
 

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I swapped a 137x1.75 onto an older 1996 formula s 15 or so years ago. Stock the sled was 121x1 or possibly 121x.75. The 380 motor had no issues with the added track. I think the 600 ace would be fine with 2".
 

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I don't see much point in going to extremes for this kind of track project. It's not a HP/Torque problem either. Apparently the throttle response is too quick and i have seen something similar happen on a skandic swt 600 Ace with a cobra track. The problem was the driver trying to rev the engine like a two stroke they had been using for years. Driving a 600 Ace sled is more like driving an atv and gunning the throttle just makes you sink or burn rubber. Making the track easier to turn (sprockets) without adjusting the rest of the drive train will rarely give you the results you expect.

To say a Tundra Xtreme can out pull a 600 Ace or a 550f. Don't make me laugh.
 

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Making the track easier to turn (sprockets) without adjusting the rest of the drive train will rarely give you the results you expect.
Curious what you mean by this. Effectively gearing the ACE down by installing the 7 tooth drivers gave me exactly the results I expected (and hoped for). What else on the drive train could be adjusted to deal with the gear reduction? Am I missing something? :Cheers
 
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