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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thought I would share the story of how a bad starter being replaced cost me 1200 peak rpm.. Sorry in advance for the long book.

2018 Renegade 850 XRS, bought it new. At about 8000 miles, pulled off to the side of the trail and the starter failed, wouldn't even freewheel. Never even hiccuped before this. Rope started it and finished the weekend, but you could hear the starter drive dancing around against the ring gear as the engine was running.

Under BEST warranty the dealer replaced the starter, starter drive and flywheel, thank you BRP, almost $2000 canadian in parts.

Got the machine back, started fine, idled a bit choppy, smelled very rich. Wouldn't rev past 6800 RPM and a pig on fuel.

You could hold it to the bar and it wouldn't go past 6800 and eventually would misfire. I wanted it to blow up...

Removed the raves, cleaned them, re-synched them about 3 times, re-validate position, was better and would now rev to 7000rpm.

Checked fuel pressure, 48psi, checked at wot, still 44psi. Tried to blow it up again by holding it to the bar, this time I brought my laptop and candoopro.

Zero knock correction so I figured screw it, I'll bump the timing and recheck for knock correction. Did this about 3 times in 3-2-2 degree increments for a total of 7 degrees advance. Every time it got better until it now pulls 7900 RPM and runs crisp. Fuel economy is the same as the 20.5 XRS I was running with. Now I am going to actually pull the injectors and dial indicator the pto piston and set it to 28 btdc.

Moral of the story is, don't assume the accuracy of the keyway cut in the flywheel. Out 7 degrees ++. I mean, I've degreed in probably 100 camshafts for 4 stroke race engines and never found one to be out more than 3 degrees..

Hope someone else can avoid the aggravation .
 

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Any chance when they put flywheel on the key way rolled out ? I had this happen on a cat 800 put timing out .
 

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geez 7 degrees is alot to be out. too bad you didnt have the old flywheel to verify they are exactly the same (would think they are)
 

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a 2020 renegade xrs flywheel part number is 420864437. a 2018 renegade flywheel number is 420864431.

hmmm is something different with these??
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
a 2020 renegade xrs flywheel part number is 420864437. a 2018 renegade flywheel number is 420864431.

hmmm is something different with these??
Good point... just checked and my BEST parts list shows the 431 part number, so should be good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Any chance when they put flywheel on the key way rolled out ? I had this happen on a cat 800 put timing out .
Sure hope not... but I guess anything is possible. Once I have true TDC indexed I can verify it throughout the year with a timing light and if it fluctuates or changes then the flywheel is coming off.
 

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Did you have the chance to index TDC and run a timing light?
 

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Not yet Daag. Transitioning from Mustang and lake season to snowmobile season probably December
I am patient, but I wanted to make sure you didn't forget this one lol There is this very particular case that I have been trying to work out that even stumped BRP. BUDS only allows to advance or retard the timing 4 degrees, so when the ignition timing is found that much further than I begin to suspect the keyway in the flywheel was machined with the incorrect angle. There are offset keys, but like you this is a stock sled. There may also be a way to cheat this limitation, but I haven't comfired it yet. This isn't something that I have seen, hence why I am interested to see if such a machining error has ever been confirmed.
 

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But why did it run great for 8000k only to have issues after the starter repair?
 

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Okay I see, i missed the part of the mag replacement. Makes sense now
 

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What was the timing offset before the first advance? Was it -4 degrees?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
What was the timing offset before the first advance? Was it -4 degrees?
It was -2 as a baseline.

So far, I have not noticed a + or - 4 degree limit on the candoopro. I stopped at +7, but will definitely dig deeper after I complete a few projects.

Just bought another hoist for my shop, so I'll be driving to Boucherville on Tuesday to pick it up.

You guys getting some snow?
 

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It was -2 as a baseline.

So far, I have not noticed a + or - 4 degree limit on the candoopro. I stopped at +7, but will definitely dig deeper after I complete a few projects.

Just bought another hoist for my shop, so I'll be driving to Boucherville on Tuesday to pick it up.

You guys getting some snow?
There is white blanket here South of the hwy 15 that is shy of 1"

-2 to +5 would give a +7 deg advance, and that is still 1 above what I have been able to muster on the CanDoo and BUDS. But I haven't tried on the 850, so this is still all new to me. All the 850s here are still under warranty, so it has to wait until they grow out of it. There are so many people today with a CanDoo or BUDS that it is a lot easier to figure out than it was even two years ago. By the way we didn't the expected updates for the CanDoo, but we still need to make a list of the things we need and submit it to Jeff.
 

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Was winding down to the end of the season, and for what its worth, I don't mind checking that stuff myself.
I work on my own stuff out of warranty, in warranty it's the dealers problem. That's what we pay for plus if yours goes boom and brp finds out what you messed with its a great way for them to deny your claim blaming you for the engine failure.

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I work on my own stuff out of warranty, in warranty it's the dealers problem. That's what we pay for plus if yours goes boom and brp finds out what you messed with its a great way for them to deny your claim blaming you for the engine failure.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
To be honest, it's such a short season and I would prefer to know that its done right with no warranty vs being down for 2 weekends and having some kid work on it and maybe it's not done right, but it does have warranty. In fact, that's exactly why the timing was off in the first place. Starter and flywheel replaced under warranty but timing wasn't verified. Just because the building has a BRP sign, doesn't guarantee that the technician or apprentice is going to take their time and go that extra mile. Nothing against the dealership or the technician, but they also have customers screaming at them, unhappy, stressed and demanding. Got to get the jobs out, and the next ones in. I can take my sweet time, double check, triple check, working in my heated garage with the phone off and the music on. Nobody is telling me to hurry up and get it done or looking at my time card vs warranty pay time.
 
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