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The Downfall of the 1000 SDI ???

108K views 408 replies 39 participants last post by  Daag44 
#1 ·
When I first joined DooTalk there were a number of owners who took a special interest with the 1K and we tried our best to understand this beast. We were all fighting to figure out the reasons why these behemoths were failing and how to avoid the aftermath. At times we created such a ruckus that it eventually drew us apart even further. It got to the point that it turned into a choice between BRP designed the engine to fail, or they were not running right. To me this was the demise of the 1000 SDI on the DooTalk forum.
 
#364 ·
Top Tier Gasoline Worth the Extra Price, Study Shows

An analysis by AAA reveals that gas with detergent additives can keep an engine running smoothly
By Jeff S. Bartlett
Published July 7, 2016 | Updated March 2, 2022

I picked up the link from the latest Total Seal video and added it to my Gasoline quality and storage topic. I had not added anything sine 2015, but over the years I have updated the links that quite working, although I haven't checked those in a long time.

I buy 98% of my gasoline at Esso which was once listed as a Top Tier, but it still uses a superior additive package. This could certainly contribute to keeping the injectors happier and explain in part why some have had better luck. Our 91 is Ethanol free, so that's a big plus for storage which is the main part of the problem with the injectors. In following fuel issues locally, regionally and across DooTalk, fresh 91 is a safer bet than 93/94, at least during periods of low turnover such as the fall and beginning of winter. Even if 93/94 was cheaper, I would still pick 91 for the volume of sales.

Petro Canada, Esso, Canadian Tire, Husky and others are no longer designated as Top Tier Fuel
Apr 4th, 2022
 
#365 ·
I like Shell VPower premium for my high performance cars for similar reasons. It has less ethanol and just runs better in a high compression engine.

Daag, is your 91 still ethanol free? I have been reading about the changes in fuel regulations that were imposed in Canada in late 2022, and it looks like ethanol in all gasoline is a first step to meet those regulations.
 
#366 ·
So far our local 91 from Esso and Shell remains Ethanol free. The nearest 94 is from Petro Canada which does have Ethanol and is the one we have proven at the time that it caused knock on the same high performance car that had no issues with 91. The same car with gas across the border experienced knock driving on the 87 in the mountains along the Adirondack, the Schroon Lake region if I am not mistaken.

I have often wondered if a small 4S engine could be setup to knock on 87.


"According to Dan McTeague, a noted petroleum analyst, Shell and Esso 91 are both ethanol free."

Why you don't actually want ethanol in your gas tank
If you're looking to store your classic car, motorcycle, or ATV for the winter, here are a few precautions

Author of the article:
David Booth
Published Oct 11, 2019 • Last updated Jun 10, 2022
 
#367 ·
OK, good, I hope it stays that way. I only buy ethanol free fuel for my older vehicles and small engines.

As I understand it today, the new Canadian gasoline and diesel regulations require the fuel manufacturers to reduce their 'carbon intensity' by something like 3% now and another 1.5% per year for some years. The first easy step to reduce 'carbon intensity' in gasoline is to add more ethanol, as ethanol apparently produces a given amount of energy with less carbon emissions. Making their factory process use less energy can do the same thing.

The fuel manufacturers can buy carbon credits from other companies like EV manufacturers. So the price of gasoline will go up when that tactic to reduce 'carbon intensity' is used, and the EV industry will be subsidized by gasoline buyers.

BTW it is interesting that the 94 with ethanol produced knock. Ethanol is one thing used to increase octane; it burns with less total energy and so the combustion temperatures and pressures are lower. But the other fuel ingredients, or a slower ethanol burn rate in a larger bore cylinder, probably caused the increased knock. (What engine was this?) The fuel article that I shared with you talked about the major gasoline blending components.

You can make any engine knock on any sold octane. Just advance the timing....
 
#368 · (Edited)
BTW it is interesting that the 94 with ethanol produced knock. Ethanol is one thing used to increase octane; it burns with less total energy and so the combustion temperatures and pressures are lower.
I can only speculate what was in that tank since there was no testing to confirm the content and RVP. For all I know the last fill-up of the 94 UST (Underground Storage Tank) may have been 87. I don't expect Octane cheating at Petro-Canada, so I thinking the same kind of mistake that leads to filling-up a gasoline UST with diesel. The same happened to an off-trail 850 that had filled-up in South Dakota and detonating enough to loosen the spark-plug at mid-day, and the next day it broke. Due to the E-TEC plugs that need to be indexed, it was reasonably assumed the plug had not been tight enough, and after being tightened back up it maybe it had already been weaken from bouncing around, or whatever, it doesn't really matter since the was a problem to begin with. The same sled self destructed on its first back to Minnesota closer to sea lever when it has more compression. The take-away is that even an E-TEC is not fully protected against gasoline issues.
 
#369 ·
eRAVE operation

I finally found the old topic for the eRAVE malfunction from Jan 29, 2015. I added the link to Post #192 which is now over 5 years ago. The essentials is the Engine Pilot Light is triggered on Wide Open Throttle after passing 6,500 rpm, or from a cruise at ~7,200+ , then the exhaust valves are not opening correctly or fully, and it is time to back off the throttle and ride below exhaust valve opening until the problem is resolved. In other words, recognize the problem early and avoid the attempt to power/throttle through the problem area.

Below are topics for the historical purpose. There are many more, but those can provide good clues. Since I have not seen any problematic RTs in many years, I suspect they have either been junked or parted out. I added the third link to show how this problem is still happening in 2023 with the 850s. In Post #85 I included a link to show it is also still happening in 2023 with the 600 HOE. So if you encounter someone who is adamant that the RT was singled out, at least you will have a reference to the "bullet proof" 600s that also have the same problems that will lead to similar engine failures. It is not a good practice to drown another sled to raise one's own, but knowing that the "bullet proof" 600s are also falling can serve its purpose to regain confidence in 1000 SDI not being an isolated case.

pto side piston lean out on exhaust side

ERAVE activation light for an RT

My history with the servo operated exhaust valves
 
#370 ·

Old comments on the horsepower of these produced, apparently stock?
 
#373 ·
#375 ·
Are you still around? Sorry that I left your post without a reply. I hope you take the time to elaborate on what you liked about it. Much like the 1200 4-TEC shorty, the 1000 SDI holds the trails like on rails. I think it took 17 years for BRP to show the claim to fame of the Mach Z was its low suspension and low center of gravity on trails. They sorta sold it twice as a lake racer, when really it was a phenomenal trail sled. The tricky part is having to figure the suspension. My Renegade was never good, so I had to ride multiple Mach Z to understand the wow'ness I was reading about. The typical 121x15x1" track with 96 studs was an ideal setup for enough traction on trails that also provided give to drift the rear end while the lower center of gravity kept it planted. I learned from riding RX7MachZ' sleds hat it was a hit and miss. One year his sled was on rails, and the next year I found it awful with rebuilt shocks. Then he picked-up a 2007 Mach Z that already had the suspension work, and it rode better than any of his previous Mach Z!!!! It would be fun to copy a setup, but I do not know how.

In my opinion, there is more than enough for the engine to get in run reliably. I keep going for whatever reason, but in my opinion there is need to focus on the front/rear suspension and ride height.
 
#376 · (Edited)
Clutch Alignment

This is the G4 clutch alignment tool designed and sold by Tim @ Grip-n-Rip that RX7MachZ and I tweak to fit the Gen1 REV/RT to Gen 3 chassis. Thanks to Tim's effort, there is more known in recent years about clutch alignment then ever in the past. In my opinion it was the greatest advancement to clutch alignment ever as it provides the alignment in three different axis. We did not do the necessary camera and belt temp monitoring work needed to fully adapt it to the previous chassis, but the concept remains effective. For example, we are able to simulate the movement of the clutch under load to measure the difference in Y-X measurement.

Ideally, the Y-X measurement should be zero for the greatest part of riding. If the sled is used in competition, then the focus should be on the alignment at wot. For a trail sled, most wot lake runs are under 30 seconds and there is so much ventilation at those speeds that it should help keep things cool. For trail riding the goal is to find a happy medium.



Wheel Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design Automotive lighting




Added Clutch Alignment

See post #239 of the following linked topic below.

For any clutch alignment that is needed above what is provided in stock form, there is no limitation. This is what Icanfixit showed with his 800R E-TEC to eliminate that limitation in showing the added adjustment in two axis. For the third axis that is not shown, the alignment is done with the use of shims in the engine mounts. I have seen a shims on a 2009 800R P-TEK that was an OEM build. I don't remember if it had a hole or a PAC-MAN slot to fit by the mounting stud like the shims that Grip-n-Rip made for the G4, but it most certainly had a tab to hold and ease manipulation which has me think it was OEM. In 11 years I would expect to have come across at least one reference on DooTalk, but not yet. Dumb me for not having taken a picture of it. Anyways it does not really matter as we can make our own shims when needed.

Note the post #239 was on June 30th of 2016. This was only a short period in months before the first 850s were delivered, and back then we had no clue what was about to transpire with the greatest clutching alignment problem in snowmobile history. In many ways the 2017 850 overshadowed the Mach Z RT. Even back then I had no clue of the versatility of our Gen1 to Gen2 sleds, hence the forefront that Icanfixit presented to us in 2016.

What I am trying to say is, the 2016 to 2017 year was an eye opener. What Icanfixit posted in Summer of 2016 was something that most of us, or at least myself, did not even realize was well within our means/reach. And the technology that BRP brought forward for MY 2017 is what pushed the clutching alignment to a whole other level that had never been seen in the past. 2016 to 2019 were the three years that would define the leaps forward.

 
#377 ·
Axes or Dimensions?

X is the position of the Primary/Drive clutch in relation to the Secondary/Driven clutch. This is a measurement taken where the two clutches are nearest to each other.

Y is also the position of the Primary/Drive clutch in relation to the Secondary/Driven clutch, but it is a measurement taken where Primary is furthest away from the Secondary. Hence Y is on the same axis as X, and the Y-X offset is second dimension of to clutch alignment on the same axis.

Z is the distance between the two clutches, hence a second axis and third dimension.

X-Y-Z is typically used to show the three axes, yet BRP has made use of those for three dimensions/measurements on two axis.


Does it really matter?

It depends on what we are looking for. In my previous post I referred to a Third Axis, yet the X-Y-Z measurements shown in the Shop Manuals suggests that all three axis are being covered, yet they are not. Since Y is a measure on the same axis as X, the Y could be converted to X2, hence X2 - X1 = X offset.

The Z is already taken for depth, therefore it leaves Y as the missing axis to measure the height of both ends of a shafts (crankshaft and countershaft) to determine the angles. Therefore Y2 - Y1 = Y offset.


Engine torque/pull under load

The load of the engine will pull/torque it in on the engine mounts for the X offset, and pull/torque it up for the Y offset. Keep in mind the two clutches are not horizontal. Since the secondary is placed higher to make room to move our feet further forward (hence rider forward) the engine on the mounts is being pulled/torqued inwards and upwards.

The placement/height of the secondary in relation to the primary was not yet all that much on Gen1 REV/RT, but it grew for the Gen2/Gen3, and again for the G4/G5. So while the Y offset does not matter as much for the Gen 1 REV/RT, the principal/understanding of this Y axis allows to see the importance of shimming the engine and secondary.

Where it gets interesting is how this affects the contortion of the belt. The first picture shows how the belt can be forced to bend/contort in a strange way on the X axis. The example I drew was having an X offset and comparing what it would look like for the belt with only shimming the secondary. There are two dimensions showing on the same X axis. The X2-X1 offset is the same, but the X is different. It is meant to show that even with a bad offset, that shimming the secondary alone can have a large impact on the belt alignment. I based the example off of the first years of the Gen2 REV/XP chassis which had trouble with the clutch/belt alignment.

Now take the first half as an example, and imagine you are only measuring/correcting the X offset. Can you see how it could potentially make things worse by contorting the belt even further into a more significant S shape?





Have a look at this second picture that shows the Y axis that I believe is missing. The previous picture showed the belt contorting in two dimensions of the same X axis, the X and X offset. The Y axis is adding two additional dimensions to contort the belt further for the Y and Y offset. Note when asking for help to buy a used sled there is solid advise to check the front shocks in relation to the A arms, and any visible bend or crack showing in the S module (front module for the Suspension Module), or in the E-Module (Engine module) that would show an accident. This is perfectly sound advice that I use and fully support. But what happens if we remain the owner after an impact, is the clutch alignment brought up? Usually yes, but only on the X axis and maybe for Z axis, but nothing for the Y axis. Hence the Y axis is completely ignored on all sleds like it did not exist. I assume it is being ignored for the most part due to clutch alignment specs are showing X-Y-Z.

By the way, we are today 5 years after being taught the advanced alignment. The explanations and depictions are my own, but the understanding was given to me 5 years ago. To give perspective, I began this topic nearly 6 years ago in July.


 
#378 · (Edited)
Runout (800R E-TEC example)

The runout measurements of high mileage large bore 2S sleds is the holy grail in my opinion. It would be easy to compare notes if runout was a common measurement, but it is not. The measurement is especially uncommon on high mileage sleds. There is no apparent reason to bother if the sled works, hence ignorance is bliss. The thing is, out of 100 owners of these large bores 2S, maybe one 1/4 will say they are only good for say 5,000 miles, yet that 1/4 is the loudest and drives 3/4 of the populous opinion. The worst part is, there is no data to support anything.

What we lived through from the beginning of 2021 to the end of 2022, so two full years plus, we were not privied to any data. So a high mileage 2S owner can say they are good for 10,000+ miles, and a low mileage 2S owner can say it only good until 3,000 miles with no data to help understand the reason(s) for survival or failure. In that respect I have attempted to learn what measurements appear to matter the most.

What I have been able to measure over the years is sparse, so a little here and there to at least gain a reasonable understanding. The following is an example of the measurements I have taken and some things that I could draw from. I did this in Dec of 2021 because I could finally cross the CAN/USA border.....

Below are the picture of Mike's (RX7MachZ) 800RE clutch that I drew the twelve hourly clock positions on the movable sheave with the 12 O'clock relating to the PTO Top Dead Center. I did use the degree symbol as shorthand, so I apologize for the confusion. The added numbers on the movable sheave represent the fixed sheave runout, and the numbers on the fixed sheave represent the runout on the outer perimeter of the fixed sheave which I take as a reference prior to removing the clutch.


Offset Balance/Runout

In the first picture below, note the highest runout on the fixed sheave perimeter is somewhere between the 5 and 6 O'clock position. This is a huge tell. In the second picture, note the large circle on the movable sheave that I drew an arrow to point to it. This circle is expected to be at or near BDC as shown. The crankshaft PTO stub has a large circle for the alignment mark which is near in line with the 6 O'clock position. Sorry that I do not remember how close it was to 6 O'clock, but it was close enough. Note the highest runout on the fixed sheave perimeter did closely match this position.




At near 5,000 miles I had done an extensive runout measurement on the same sled which has around 0.0035" runout on the crankshaft in the 4 to 5 O'clock position. Over 5,000 miles later (10,000+ miles total) the high spot was still near to the same position and closer to 6 O'clock.


Did BRP figure out the most likely HIGH spot on the crankshaft?

This new offset came about in 2012 for the 800RE, so 8 years after the first 1000 SDI production in 2005. How often do you see this stuff even mentioned??? It does happen, but it is rare. I recently found one that I had never seen and dated years ago, so it did happen, but again it is rare. I meant to add it here, but I need to find it again which will hopefully be less than the five years it took to find that Bill Cudney post on clutching which was brilliant. On a side note, the best way to keep a secret is to share it in the open. A secret only has its worth if it deemed top secret, so revealing anything in the open forum suggests that it is not all that relevant. In a way, that is actually a good thing.

Assume the end of the clutch shaft is five inches away from the end of the pto crankshaft end, a crankshaft runout of 0.001" will be multiplied five inches away. Now assume the taper on the clutch shaft is not perfect and has its own runout of 0.001" . Once the final clutch assembly is balanced, the heavy point shown by this balance mark will likely relate to the highest runout of the clutch shaft. So if the runout is independently measured on the clutch shaft, then the heavy spot on the final clutch assembly will likely match to the highest runout. Did you get all that? Probably not because of my poor explanation. A visual aid would make so much easier to see, but I don't have one so you will need to try and figure it out on your own.

All that I am trying to do here is to show pictures of measurement taken by me to give an idea of what I have been doing over the years.

What BRP appears to have done after marking the heavy spot on the clutch, is to index it with the lowest runout on the crankshaft. In taking the runout measurements is how I came to assume the relationship. BRP has provided an explanation that I have posted on DooTalk, but I would only find it years later after having done my own work. Ironically I have posted BRP's explanation on DooTalk, but I do not have it handy. I do remember that it did not go into the detail that I am suggesting, but it did go a long way in suggesting a balance offset. Another thing that BRP has provided, is that we are allowed to clock parts when there is a question of unbalance, or better yet we may have to if the vibrations are too high.

By the way, don't expect to find this stuff in shop manuals. BRP provides a lot of insights in their Tech Manuals and Bulletins.


Sheave Runout

The next picture shows the Sheave Runout being the highest @ 0.011" between 11 and 12 O'Clock. I like to see 0.005" of less, so a 0.011" sheave runout is getting high! I was looking at this measurement prior to BRP explaining the designed 0.024" runout on the 2017 850, but I did not yet understand the impact on the belt until BRP explained it. Until then, I was trying to find a happy medium between clutch shaft and sheave runout.





Pull&Release relationship of the belt

When I first read BRP's explanation in late Feb or beginning of March of 2017, my jaw literally dropped. Within 15 min I has read it three times, and within an hour I had realized that I had been way over my head. Now that I was beginning to understand the effects of sheave runout, what was I supposed to do about it??? I still do not have a clear answer, but I know to continue measuring. I should mention that prior to BRP's explanation, I had already figured out that a high sheave runout on the Secondary fixed sheave was a source of abnormally high vibration. But again I had yet to understand the source from the Pull&Release relationship of the belt until BRP explained it.

All of these measurements were predicated by the understanding that there was much to be learned with runout by those who had done it before me, which I mean what I learned from joining DooTalk. These guys are few and far in between, but they do exist and have posted on DooTalk. Considering that I was able to absorb their experience to push my own interest further, it is reasonable to expect you can take it much further.


Where to go from here?

Start by measuring and worry about fixing things later. DooTalk may have only one related post in 100,000, but it does exist. For example, DOOREV800 showed the possibility in correcting the sheave runout on his Secondary/QRS fixed sheave. I don't know if this is a long term solution nor if it can be applied to the Primary clutch fixed sheave, but it is a beginning.


Backwards Compatible

If you are focused on only the 1000 SDI, my hope is to provide insights that were learned from over a decade ahead that is backwards compatible. What I am posting is over 5 years old!
 

Attachments

#379 ·
Belt Tension!

I think that I am nearing the ultimate clutching posts. I am far from a clutching expert, but I do know the basics. When it comes to the 1000 SDI or even the 800 or 850 E-TECs, I find it is important to focus on the basics.

The 1000 SDI Mach Z has a clutching that can seem odd. For example, for all of its power, how does it have trouble comparing to the 850??? Ask anyone with an 850 and they typically portray it with an obscene amount of acceleration.

In comparison, the 1000 SDI has a refined thumb power. Yes, on the bold I did make that up lol But I mean it whole heatedly. The 850 was sold as a rocket, and so was the 600R. I remember bringing this up to RX7MachZ. He did not say it, but he very much eluded to I had no idea what I was talking about lol It was to the point that when I reached his place the next morning that his sled was in the front of his garage and he walked over and said to me, get your helmet on and give it a try. While I was surprised, obviously I had a good idea for what he was trying to prove. After maybe 10 min of riding and doing consecutive wot pulls, I returned to the garage with my hand up in defeat. Mike was right in the power monster of the 850 was mostly clutching.

That's the fun part of having someone like Mike to help put things into perspective. A day before I thought that BRP had done everything wrong with the 1000 SDI clutching. The thing is, there was never anything wrong with the clutching with the 434 ramps. Those ramps bring out the best of the 1000 SDI powerband with a smooth take-off and real easy to ride snowmobile!

Now go review the clutching threads that BlueMax started himself and pay close attention to what he says about the stock clutching. He essentially said there was nothing wrong with it, and there never was. Then again, BlueMax did point out something fundamentally wrong with the clutching, which was the lack of tip weight, but no need to take his word for it since BRP had already pointed out the problem as early as 2007.

So if you like how the sled rides with stock clutching and wonder how much better it would be with a stronger upshift, the only way to know is with trying mid-weighted arms and different ramps. I have the secret BRP midweight arms, but it was not any better for casual riding. BRP Racing told me the same as BlueMax, clutch for the riding I am doing. Mike (RX7MachZ) having 100 times more experience than me, said the same.

So if you want the Mach Z 1000 SDI to be the pinnacle of trails, but also win the races, I would think twice for which matters most. As a rule of thumb, the stock clutching of a Mach Z 1000 SDI with the updated tip weight is perfect for trail riding and will take any sled on the top end, hence the lake racer. So instead of getting annoyed with getting beat by 600s/800s/850s on acceleration in the first 600 feet or so, try to think of its strengths which is smooth riding and abnormally high top speed. If someone laughs, why not let him ???
 
#382 ·
So if you want the Mach Z 1000 SDI to be the pinnacle of trails, but also win the races, I would think twice for which matters most. As a rule of thumb, the stock clutching of a Mach Z 1000 SDI with the updated tip weight is perfect for trail riding and will take any sled on the top end, hence the lake racer
Completely agree Daag the stock clutching is perfect for my kind of riding. It can tour along all day with a group of friends with our wife’s and be so smooth and tame. But if someone wants to lineup with you on the lake that same clutching makes maximum use of all that torque the big 1000 has and will simply walk away from most anything out there. 😎
 
#381 ·
What I always was impressed by with the stock 1000sdi clutching was how predictable the power was, especially even if you got randomly surprised by an odd backshift in a tight corner.

Through the years of riding with everyone imaginable, I always enjoyed chasing down trail built sleds and pressuring our group riders to keep alert for the next pull off to get out of my way. I could make up time wherever I wanted, but the one area where I could close a 6 sled length gap was always an uphill, low speed tight turn. These were areas that everyone else would have to send it hard to stay out of their backshift or ride in hard and try to counteract the inevitable light skis when they hit the throttle again hoping they have their sled pointed where it needs to go. You can just throw a 1ksdi at one of these areas recklessly with your choice of staying in the throttle or a sudden stab to lighten skis depending on what the exit is looking like. I never felt a need to mess with the clutching on my 1k for anything other than I was bored 🤣
 
#384 ·
What I always was impressed by with the stock 1000sdi clutching was how predictable the power was, especially even if you got randomly surprised by an odd backshift in a tight corner.
The backshift was good, but for this to work the secondary spring needed to be up to par. The concept was explained to me back in 2013 (iirc) by a RT enthusiast who who had grinded down the 211 ramps to increase the load on the engine. Of course grinding down the ramps or adding tip weigh does affect the backshift negatively, but it can be adjusted to a point with a stronger secondary spring, or at least a spring that holds the load with heat.

The magic clutch I have did work good until it didn't. Like anyone, my first thought was the engine had folded lol
 
#383 ·
Clutching Threads

I wish that BlueMax was still posting his thoughts on clutching. What I have done with clutching during the years of racing the triple-triples on all surfaces was fun, but once I joined this Mach Z twin sub-forum I quickly realized that I had not even reached the basics. In late 1990s and early 2000s, we didn't have access to the formidable clutching and gearing threads that we do today in 2023.

There is good videos on this that Dynamo^Joe has taken the time to explain the basics. The intermediary is the act of applying the concepts, and the advanced level is showing/proving that it works. When I am posting about either clutching or gearing, I am remain at the basics. I believe that Jeb and A7M266D were the perfect examples of regular owners who took the time to learn the basics and reached above and beyond by applying themselves. I have managed to do some things on my own, and with the help of RX7MachZ I was able to put into practice a light portion of what BlueMax taught us in the open forum.

BlueMax was exemplary in learning the basics and applying it to Mach Z RT. The clutching/gearing was difficult enough, but then he applied engine management into the equation. This is what I refer to as a level above levels. He raised the bar for a regular owner to reach that level of understanding. I have asked A7M266D to write something from his own experience to clutch/gear the 850, but he got chewed-up this past season, so that is looking unlikely. He may not understand why I am asking or why I believe it is important, but I do.

A7M266D, hoping that I sent enough alerts for you to read this, I have a BlueMax quote for you which I would like you to focus on the bold: "There are a couple of setups better than the secret swammy but they use either custom ramps or STS arms (which nobody thinks work) so I won't bore you with them." That was posted in Jan of 2023, so in my opinion what you found on the 850 through trial and error and then get beat up for it in 2023 is remarkably close. I understand it is a struggle, but I am providing a past example of someone else who overcame the adversity. There has been little to no adversity in the past many years on the Mach Z RT which you have owned, so maybe this is a better venue? What you have learned in the same period that I have been on DooTalk to focus on the basics, I believe your experience needs to the written down for others to make use of.



A7M266D, BlueMax often showed that he wanted more experience shared in the open forum. It seldom happened because those of us like myself who did follow and care to contribute were too far out of touch from lack of experience! Considering the experience you have gained to this day, I firmly believe that you would have easily contributed to the questions that BlueMax asked back in 2015. What I am seeing in 2023 is a seven year lapse, and you did the work!

"Any other descriptions of engine loading? Daag, Mr. Pull, Gearbanger, TGR, Krusty, anyone??????? I am very interested in others opinions and experience. How do you know if you are loading the engine quicker or increasing loading?????

Does the Mach Z 1000 SDI use engine loading to adjust fuel mapping and even timing of fuel injection pulse????

There are no right answers to these questions. "

 
#387 · (Edited)
...book ark for later....
Good of you to start there. That is where I started too! That topic knocked me so far off of my feet that on the evening of Feb 12th or 13th of 2013 I was getting ready to start a new Topic detailing an ensemble of "required" upgrades to the 1000 SDI. For some reason I had the good sense to hold off with a draft while I would take my sled on a tripe up North with friends.

Half way into our trip my sled began to knock (sort of). FYI I described the sound in the topic Sound of Death lol I did complete the trip without issue, but you can imagine that was more than worried, and that I did NOT know what to do. We got back home late Friday on Feb 15th of 2013. I must have been dreaming about it all night because I woke the next day on Feb 16th at 8am with a startling revelation that the knock was from a loose engine mount that Blue Max had cautioned us about. The revelation felt so real that instead of checking my sled for loose mount, I chose to spend all day to figure out what I had missed from this guy BlueMax, and how/why I had missed the significance of his presence.

It took years for me to unlearn and begin to replace with first hand experience. It was tough because I could only take small bites which took several year just to get a reasonable idea. Ttrein was the user/owner that I felt we had missed the mark.

Today in 2023 I am finally revisiting some of Tom Warga's (455) electrical upgrades. On a side note, I have not needed to read through the first part of that thread in years. I had studied that thread to such a degree that I was and still able to re-write it freehand from the top of my head. I did this only once for IcutMetl and chose to never to it again. It would take 10 years before I would gain a first hand experience to revisit the notions in the topic Fuel Pump ECM Ground Switching. So if you have any questions regarding the upgrade and its history, this would be a good time to ask while I am still present.

If you like to study the history of failures along with the history of upgrades, I suggest to follow the topics that Ttrein started. If I am not mistaken, 2013 to 2014 was the year of transition. I strongly suggest to follow Ttrein and take the time to ask any question about it. I can tell you what thread and at what time that kept my mouth shut and why I did, and why I would never again. This is when with the help of RX7MachZ and soon after MotoRudyX we would devise a simple and routine plan to keep the 1000 SDI up to par against the most common failure which is detonation.

I am ok with anything you want to do, other than ignoring the injectors. This needs to be addressed within the shortest period prior to the first run of the season. For all those that never had a problem, they never did and that is where it ends. For all those of us who have seen it, measured it, and witnessed the problem, that is where it begins.

One day I need to go through the 2013-2014-2015 topics to find the two that said all the upgrades had been done, but their engines still failed. Anyone in 2023 can read this reply, clean the injectors, and still have an engine failure. So it's not an end all be all solution. The goal was to rid of all the common failures that were unnecessary from easy prevention. And no one needs me or RX7MachZ or MotoRudyX. There are enough fuel injector cleaning shops in North America to prove it.

Once the injectors are addressed, then I believe it gets fun for the rest. And it should be fun. If it isn't, then I don't believe it is right.

As a fact finding project, find how much $,$$$.$$ Ttrein spent to get his sled up to par, then how long it survived, then when it failed, why it failed, and the final cost. In my opinion, I cannot stand by observing mods that hold no garantee against detonation. In other words, an electric fix or upgrade (however one wants to see it) is only that. In itself it will not prevent a common detonation failure.
 
#390 ·
Two strokes banned in the Le Mans race from 1992+

But it won the 1991 race!!!

Last night RX7MachZ sent me two videos showing the history of the two stroke in a rotary that Mazda debuted in the 1960s to eventually win in 1991.

I find it remarkable that the 787B engine was detuned 200Hp to survive the race and still won.



 
#391 ·
The 1000 SDI @ 200-2010 Hp still competes

The dinosaur still competes with 4S turbos of lower Hp turbos in the lower to mid 200s Hp.

I need to find grass drags somewhere close enough in Quebec or Ontario. Let me know if you know of any. Very few 1000 SDI owners are still racing, so I will need to reach my contacts so see who is still in. Those that I know are tar, snow and ice racers. In my opinion grass drags is on a whole other level with stupid acceleration.
 
#393 ·
Knock Sensor

What I need to make is an earplug knock detector like a stethoscope of sorts so that I can hear it with the helmet on. The other option is a $200/hr dyno session.


Sunday, April 21, 2013
DynoTech : Listening to detonation during field testing! How it can be done

On Apr 20, 2013, at 5:56 PM, Baldur Gislason <baldur@foo.is> wrote:

On the latest post about listening for deto, I figured I'd chime in.

10 years ago I started listening for detonation on car engines using a pair of Peltor ear muffs that I drilled and epoxied hose barbs into. Both sides are teed together and connected to a piece of copper pipe at the engine by an 8mm rubber fuel hose.

Later, when presented with the necessity of listening for detonation on both my turbocharged snowmobile and a turbocharged single seater formula off road buggy we built, both applications that require a helmet, a modified approach was required.

For field testing with a helmet on I use the setup pictured here: Foo.is Gallery :: Miscellaneous :: IMG_7000

It is a pair of ham radio ear pieces that have a tube connection between the earpiece and the speaker. I picked those up on ebay for about $10 each.

In my application, they're clipped onto a piece of plastic (POM) shaft that I center drilled and machined the ends on the lathe to let the earpieces clip on. The plastic shaft attaches to the helmet by electrical tape and is connected to a copper pipe at the engine by a length of rubber fuel hose. It works if anything, better than the ear muffs.

Baldur Gislason


Corded phone Ac adapter Cable Gas Wire




Saturday, April 20, 2013
DynoTech : Listening to engines detonate on the dyno


Our copper tube detonation sensor—which functions much like a stethoscope—has been the subject of much discussion with DTR members who operate their own engine and track dynos. This will provide clarity and understanding about how we use it. Sean Ray installed the copper tube here several years ago. He’s a calibration engineer at Delphi in Rochester, NY, and learned of this from Korean Hyundi engineers who came to work with him on one of their engines. They didn’t have total faith in their electronic knock sensors, and they brought a roll of ¼” copper tubing so they could listen to the engine. After Sean heard the audible clicking sound of the Hyundi engine detonating, he knew that was what we needed at DynoTech Research. Today, every million dollar dyno cel at Delphi is fitted with a $25 roll of copper tubing with a megaphone-like funnel soldered to the end in the control room for amplification.

The copper tube must be solidly attached to the top end of the engine to transfer the sound of deto. There is a ¼” electrical lug soldered onto the end for bolting to the engines. On sled engines the head is good, and on engines with thermostat housing, the 6 mm bolts attaching bolts there are ideal. Arctic Cat twins have no thermostat housings on the heads, but have a larger metric tapped hole near the center of the head, said to be used at the factory for a lifting lug. For that, I’ve made a steel adaptor that’s shown attached to the copper lug. For Cats we can also hear deto clearly if we bolt the ¼” copper lug to any one of the 6mm exhaust valve bolts, too. The steel adaptor also can be used on head bolts/ studs if length is adequate. That works well on SkiDoo Etec engines. Sleds with individual heads and more than two cylinders should have the lug attached to the coolant outlet manifold on the center cylinder. The sound of deto carries well through the coolant manifold, from one cylinder to another.

The copper tube is routed into the control room through the wall separating it from the engine dyno room. Sean uses a 2’ long piece of 1” ID clear plastic hose to keep the copper from resting against the drywall (and possibly dampening out some of the clicks). And of course care must be exercised when routing the copper tube through the engine compartment to keep the copper from rubbing against anything.

Automotive exterior Auto part Cable Gas Metal


Automotive lighting Automotive tire Peripheral Finger Audio equipment
 
#395 ·
Hot street American cars of the ~1970s

Nm9stheham, can you list some of the hottest street USA build American performance/muscle street cars of the 70s? I have long promised you something that I cannot find because I don't remember what to look for. It's in this sub-forum, I just need a key word which is a car.

I would recognize it in a multiple choice, but it is not coming to mind. I am of the age of Camaro's and TransAms, so I am obviously out of my league lol
 
#398 ·
November of 2023

We are back to another month of November when two stroke engines for the winter season are bout to blow up on death row in December.

The majority of engine failures are in December and January during the first good ride of the season.

The most common story is the owner was not riding it hard. Note that I believe this 100%.

When I consider all of the 1000 SDI owners that I have spoken to over the phone or in person, they are all like you and me.

I cannot even say there is this one guy.... They are all like you and me.

The the hard riders still exist and I know a number of them, but they are mostly gone.


Last of the Mohicans

Whatever was real between 2005 and 20010 is long gone in my opinion. I got the tail end between 2011 and 2015, and it went dark. I would have to take a careful look at the dates, but I remember it going dark in Autumn of 2015 and thinking this could not be good. By January of 2016 I was being asked what had happened to the other guys? How was I supposed to answer such questions??? I would answer with a combination of they did what they thought needed to be done and left us with an extensive archive which imo was awesome!

The vast majority of 1000 SDI owners will be the typical owner of 600HOE or 900 ACE. We are quickly becoming the last of the Mohicans. My only hope is when owing this sled you make it count by sharing your experience. I think it should be as easy or easier than writing an I love you letter to the wife. If that has grown difficult then maybe that too needs to be thought through lol
 
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