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The Downfall of the 1000 SDI ???

92461 Views 384 Replies 35 Participants Last post by  Daag44
When I first joined DooTalk there were a number of owners who took a special interest with the 1K and we tried our best to understand this beast. We were all fighting to figure out the reasons why these behemoths were failing and how to avoid the aftermath. At times we created such a ruckus that it eventually drew us apart even further. It got to the point that it turned into a choice between BRP designed the engine to fail, or they were not running right. To me this was the demise of the 1000 SDI on the DooTalk forum.
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My take on a 2005 Mach Z 1000 is -
It was troublesome to the owner here in Rankin Inlet, with very limited access to any shops, minimal dealership assistance the owner managed to get roughly 45,000 (+/-) km on it. It was a heavily abused sled as we don't have groomed trails up here, heavily neglected sled due to the fact of our isolated location.

One summer I went over to our local dump to find usable parts for a project I had going...I was surprised to see majority of the chassis along with the motor in it. (Might have seized?) But any usable part was taken out for a newer sled the owner had gotten.

It was one of those "oh nooooo" moments seeing it at the dump. I thought about taking it home for a project but I just couldn't fathom what I would go through knowing what the previous owner went through with it.
Hahaha

I will have to do a "dump tour" for our fellow DooTalk members one day.
It's insane what is brought up that could be fixed with a bit of time and patience.
Thanks for sharing your story. I can imagine how limited access and support for this sled could be a real problem. The first year Summits were having some odd problems with the LP pump under the engine, and some sleds had tough to diagnose eRAVE issues that I suspect were caused by a pinched signal wire in the harness.

The number of cases that I found even locally just blew my mind. Before I joined this forum I had no understanding of this engine. The only thing that I knew back then was the ongoing debate that I was hearing locally of the REV chassis that many still believed was more appropriate for ditch banging and questionable for trails. It didn't take long to figure out this was a bunch of crock much like when the ABS first came out in cars and many were claiming it wasn't all that good, and the fiction lasted well over a decade. In 2003-2004 when the REV chassis first came out, ABS was still an option for most cars. It took a 6-8K package to get it. The same happened with the seat belts with the locals were telling me that going through the windshield had saved their lives.

To this day the amount of BS is shocking with no end in sight. That's why it is increasingly important to take a close look at each failure. I try to do by best, but there is no way in heck anyone can do this on their own. Note that I wrote failure without mentioning the 995. The E-TEC has the same issues and battling the same problems, but it holds the advantage of having a better perception. Some things with the E-TEC are obviously better such as the more advanced anti-knock strategy, it has only one fuel pump, the injectors are less prone to fuel issues, and it consumes more oil. Ok, but the 995 SDI with the Sea map runs richer in gas, the injectors are easy to clean, high turnover gas holds a lower risk of debris and water, and the oil consumption is easy to adjust. The Summit RT may have had a disadvantage with having the leaner Mid or High maps.

I would love to speak to someone from BRP who was involved in the roll-out of the Summit RT in 2005 so that I could ask some real questions. My suspicions are only as good as what I can prove. I first ran the Mid map in 2019 on RX7MachZ' Mach Z. The plugs were off-white which was lean, but still ok. I have run a Mach Z at the beginning of the season that showed plugs white as a ghost because none of the injectors were cleaned which takes maybe 30 min to do at home. What worried most about the Mid map was the a/f in the midrange, but I have yet to really look into it. Unfortunately we had it on the sled that had no Wideband.

My Renegade currently has the Mid map that I flashed myself last spring in 2021. I want to see what the Summits had to deal with running near sea level. I think the typical low elevation out West is somewhere around 1000-1500 feet. I am at 200 feet, so I hope that any problem will be exacerbated for my elevation, but not necessarily. I did find a problem running the Sea map at around -20C (-4F) and 2200 feet. While riding towards lower elevation of ~800 feet, at some point the engine behavior changed like a switch. We had two RTs and both changed within a few minutes. Back then I didn't have my Wideband and never bothered to look into it further. There are so many things to check that is endless.

You absolutely should take a dump run! Parts will eventually become scarce.

Did you mean 4,500 km?
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Heckhole, I agree that a compression test with a healthy engine is relatively simple. It's for all those that measure abnormally low that I worry about. Consider 130 psi near my elevation when it should be 150+. I have measured over 150 psi on 995s having the notorious score marks adjacent to both high and low injector flow. As far as I can figure, that kind of scoring happens when the engine coolant temperature is on the high side like near or above the red zone. My 2007 Renegade never came with temperature gauge...... Somehow BRP thought this was a good idea, and right through the E-TECs.
Daag44:
I have a 2005 Mach Z it have a Mid level map in it, running it at mid range ( 5000 - 6500 rpm) my plugs are as white as brand new plugs, which is the range I like to ride most of the time 50 to 60 mph, I run always at sea level, are you suggesting to run a sea level map to get more fuel, I always thought lower level maps less fuel, higher level more fuel, I really do not know for sure! I would like to do something to richen the mid range if possible! Thanks Gary!
Calibration details for each Map

Daag44:
I have a 2005 Mach Z it have a Mid level map in it, running it at mid range ( 5000 - 6500 rpm) my plugs are as white as brand new plugs, which is the range I like to ride most of the time 50 to 60 mph, I run always at sea level, are you suggesting to run a sea level map to get more fuel, I always thought lower level maps less fuel, higher level more fuel, I really do not know for sure! I would like to do something to richen the mid range if possible! Thanks Gary!
Gary, I really don't know if it's a good idea to run a 1000 SDI with the Mid map. What I do know from the plugs is that it runs lean throughout the Midrange and Wide Open Throttle.

The Sea map has more tolerance by running richer with plugs no lighter than light brown.
Ok Thanks Dagg:
I clean my injectors every fall! So you suggesting to stay with the mid map! Thanks Gary
Yes, definitely clean the injectors within the shortest period from the first ride. I am not even concerned with what method you will use to clean them, as long as you provide yourself a method to compare, however rudimentary. At the minimum it needs to be compared by sight, and ideally by sight and volume. Most sleds never even get their injectors cleaned, or get cleaned way too early before the first ride which have time to clog one again. So any kind of cleaning at the right time is better than nothing.

On the day of the very first ride, feel free to add fuel treatment. I use Seafoam, but XPS/BRP and Yamalube have their own. Keep in mind that I said on the first ride. I never use fuel treatment for storage, so I am not responsible for any possible chemical reaction during storage. Instead, I cycle the gas.

Re-read my last reply as it shortened it up for clarity.
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Ok Thanks Dagg for your time and advise, I will look into getting a sea map installed! Thanks Gary!
I have had the mid since BRP put them in under warranty, but I'm on my third motor! My egt gauge reads 1250 to 1300 when riding 50 to 60 mph! So I have to ride at 40mph or 70mph which is not good for trail riding! That is why I thought of using a sea level map, I thought sea level is leaner than high level, are wrong on this! Thanks Gary!
Gary, what is the approximate rpm for all those speeds? (40-50-60-70 mph).
I'm thinking 40 is 5500 - 6000, 50 is 6000 - 6500, 60 is 6500 - 7000 rpm it just seem the trail speed I'm comfortable riding at is the lean zone! Just before the raves open and the high speed injector come on, the plugs are white when I check them, and the egt is 1250 - 1300! Thanks Gary!
Gary, the 60 mph @ ~6500 rpm roughly matches what I get on a Mach Z with a few inches of ungroomed fresh snow on the trail. On hard pack or ice, 6500 rpm can reach 65-70 mph if I remember correctly. The maximum EGT that I saw up to 6500 rpm is just shy of 1200F. The Sea map does just fine for riders like you and me. Cruising above 6500 rpm still presents problems with the Sea map, so you will need to relearn what works.

Engine failures with the Sea map are common while riding somewhere around 50-60 mph, so the Sea map is not a guarantee. The injectors need to be flowing freely to keep the EGT temps down.

Have you looked at the power curves between all three maps?
No I have not looked at power curves between the maps! Thanks Gary!
No I have not looked at power curves between the maps! Thanks Gary!
I found it a longs ways back on page 2 that I linked below. The Mid map is shown with the red curve. One of two shows the Hp with the Mid map extending to the left (lower rpm) and remarkably higher power over even the High Elevation map. The Sea map is not even showing that low, but its curve gives a clue. What I draw from it is the Mid map having an obvious leaner/stronger midrange. As the rpm rises, the Mid map actually drops in power compared to the Sea map. I suspect this is where the ignition timing is backed-off to provide more heat into the tuned-pipe. The three maps need to be looked into closely to see how BRP figured to recover some of the lost power in the Mid elevation. In any case, for those that the Mid map has worked, I believe it has much to do with how they ride inherently keeps them away from holding their sleds in the hot zone.

Power curves
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Fresh meat - I just bought a Mach-Z 1000 SDI

-10 month old AGM battery.
-Two new BRP drive belts
-Fresh track - studded (my first studded sled)
-Fresh ring on the airbox to side panel vent connection.
-6,000-ish miles.

Picture from the ad.
Tire Vehicle Motorcycle Automotive tire Automotive lighting

I am the third owner.
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That is a sweet looking sled. Do you have the year and history? There are still RTs out there with the same engine.
Is this normal for a 35° F engine that ran yesterday?

Fresh meat - I just bought a Mach-Z 1000 SDI

-10 month old AGM battery.
-Two new BRP drive belts
-Fresh track - studded (my first studded sled)
-Fresh ring on the airbox to side panel vent connection.
-6,000-ish miles.

Picture from the ad.
View attachment 1978068
I am the third owner.
Put some miles on it in December and January and join us in Quebec in February.
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Is this normal for a 35° F engine that ran yesterday?

I'm not sure what you are asking, the idle rpm at 1000 rpm? It is very low with more chances of fouling plugs. The beeps each 1.5 seconds is a bad connection with the DESS key. Try pushing it down or remove the star magnetic center from the key.
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Case Studies

Sometimes we only need to see the good ones vs the bad ones to see how we can make these machines work a little better. First thing Early Rider did to his 2005 MachZ 1000 SDI was to adjust the oil injection to 36:1 and switched to XPS Mineral. The sled ran pretty much flawless for 10,000 miles. His 2006 Renegade 1000 SDI was a horror story from day 1.

Gade Catches Fire
Started By Early Rider, Jan 18 2006 11:50 AM
Gade Catches Fire
Hello new to this sled, so do you guys recommend running the XPS mineral oil for the injector oil?
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