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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First off I have to admit that Mike Knapp was right and you can run the PL/PL secondary spring with cudneys helix. I let seat of the pants feeling sway my decision and also it could have been a couple malt beverages. Sorry MIke. Anyway here are the the results. I ran two runs with each setup and averaged the two.

Test #1 300 ft 4.69 What you have to compare is the split times between 300 and 600 ft and 600 and 900 2.15 between 300 and 600. 3.55 between 600 and 1100 It ran 103 at 8700 rpms

157/292 600ft 6.84

97.6 grams 1100ft 10.39

CR-9 helix

235/335 secondary

Test # 2 300 4.74 Split times were 2.14 between 300 and 600

600 6.88 3.51 between 600 and 1100. As you can see the stiffer secondary spring did start to

157/292 1100 10.39 slow it down after 600 ft compared to the PL/PL . It ran 104 mph at 8700 rpms

97.6 grams

CR-9 helix

PL/PL secondary

Test # 3

157/292 300 4.73 Split times were 2.11 between 300 and 600. And 3.51 between 600 and 1100.

97.6 grams 600 6.84 As you can see a little better than Cudneys helix between 300 and 600. I think it

54/46 helix 1100 10.35 may be pulling a hair harder in the first 600. This was a dalton helix. 104 mph

PL/PL secondary at 8700 rpms

Test # 4

157/292 300 4.77 Split times were 2.14 between 300 and 600 and 3.52 between 600 and 1100

97.6 grams 600 6.91 The reason it did not do as well is it pulls about 200 rpms higher through the

CR-9 helix 1100 10.43 whole shift. Ran 104 at 88-8900 rpms. As you can see pulling higher rpms at

PL/PL secondary the end did not gain anything.

This was with the older

style pb-80 overdrive

Test # 5 300 4.77 Split times were 2.08 between 300 and 600 and 3.56 between 600 and 1100.

600 6.82 as you can see between 300 and 600 were even better yet than the 54/46 run

157/292 1100 10.38 and between 600 and 1100 it fell off just like the first run with the higher finish

52/46 helix secondary spring. I am thinking this might have pulled a hair harder in the first

97.6 grams 600 ft than the 54/46 helix. I have to try with the GR/GR secondary spring . I

185/315 secondary ran 104 mph at 8700 rpms.

So these are my test results with my sled. I did throw in the GR/GR secondary spring with the 54/46 helix and after initial overrev it settled in at 8200 and climbed to 8600 in about 600 ft this is all the snow I had left the next day. I will have to put this on the timer along with a 56/46 with the PL/PL secondary spring. Snow is gone probaly till next season to test. Now this testing was done in southern WI which is almost at sea level. When I go to northern WI my rpms drop a good 150 rpms through the whole shift. Up there I am going to try a 54/44 with the PL/PL I really do not want to drop any primary weight. I sold the CR-9 helix because I found two setups that worked as good or slightly better. The CR-9 worked but not quite as good and also do not like the way it cuts into the rollers. I know people say the rollers will not break but I would rather run a helix that does not cut into the rollers. I know people may disagree with the results saying that the CR-9 is the only helix that works but the timers don't lie. Its good but not quite as good.

In conclusion these are my results on my sled with my performance. What works on my sled may not work on other sleds and vice versa what works on there sled may not work on mine. To many variables from sled to sled. Traction,weight, amount of studs short track or long track with lower gearing and last of all differences in hp. I hope everybody can keep an open mind when clutching setups. There are alot of people on here that know alot about clutching and if it works for them thats all that matters. There is no one size fits all. Thanks for your time. Kurt
 

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From what I've been told the CR9 falls directly in between the two helixes that you tested. Not surprised your times were all that close.
 

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Purple spring is about as soft as you can do if you want good throttle hit with roll on races, and still keep somewhat cool temps of the clutches. I have found it to run cooler that the heavier aftermarket compression driven springs with a bit softer finish rate, but still keeping the heavy start rate. I found with finish rates over 300, I would just be pinching the belt too tight and creating heat needing more weight in the drive clutch and just wasted energy heating the belt and pinching too much.

Yes, the cruise RPM's would run higher which is what helps with with performance getting the RPM needed to outrun the 800's and modded Apex's.

Fuel mileage, well I don't find it any worse than any of the other springs, but I ran a different tune with plenty of timing (helps with MPG and performance, just like adding compression would) in my RB3 than most others too. My last ride in the UP as a NA sled I was doing 16.5-17 MPG on good trail conditions. Loose snow I would get 14.5 or better.

But, keep in mind with the Purple or any heavy start rate spring, you better have good traction at the start or the extra RPM and spring rate which help with HP going to the track, had better be studded to take advantage of it or it will actually spin more down low and make you slower with track spin.

Nothing better than the beige torsion if you have the power to pull it in the midrange, which the 1200 does not quite have enough of unless working with a drag setup, a cold day, cold run setup or a turbo. The torsion just will not have the hit needed for performance alongside the 800 or modded Apex with a heat soaked 1200 and trail setup.

Want something real good, then go out on the timers with the beige torsion, just make sure you're making a cold shot run on a cold day and have the traction! Torsion also runs soooooo cool, but you need to make lots of power!
 

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Thank You !! Great presentation of you results...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You could maybe try a steeper helix off the start sometimes it can pull it and really not loose any rpms. Thanks Kurt
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Yes Mike the purple does have better throttle response thats what I really liked about the 235/335 secondary spring as far as trail riding it really had the backshift but slower in a drag race. The GR/GR might not have the throttle response from a rolling start but I will have to see if on the timers it actually quicker from a dead start. When I tried the GR/GR in the 600 ft of snow I had left I did back to back full throttle runs about 6 times and I thought the secondary would be smokin. This was with the 54/46 helix but it actually was only warm could hold my hand on it forever. Yea I will maybe try the beige torsion next year just to see how it does. Thanks for all the info you and others provide. Kurt
 

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The soft beige spring lets the shallow helix upshift faster. I've just been playing around with the stock helix trying to make it run as good as possible before I start swapping helixes. Also need to try the blue blue compression with the same stock helix
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thats what I found out about the GR/GR spring. It acted about the same with the 52/46 as the PL/PL did with the 54/46. The only thing it does loose backshift. It all depends what your looking for. It is addicting trying different setups. Just ask my wife she is tired of me spending money on helixes and springs. Thanks Kurt
 

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Kurt is your sled a shorty or a gade? I have a gade and running Cudneys setup in PB80 at 98 grams. Green/green in secondary with stock helix 47/40. What doo helix is closet to the cr9 then?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I dont think doo makes a helix that is even close. The only helix that is close is the 50/44 and that still is off by at least a couple.
 

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Kurt, nice job. What snow conditions were you in? Loose snow in a field, hard pack trail like conditions? Reason I ask is because how slow your 300' times are. While timers do not lie, results can be skewed without traction. Your most passive low engagement slow upshift may end up producing your best et's because of less spinning. Your trap speeds and splits are are very consistent. But in racing setups the 60' times are where it's all won or lost.

So what u find in loose snow to be quickest likely will not be with better traction

It's obvious there's a lot of spinning going on with 4.7s in 300'. We run 5.90s in 500' with a 440, on ice of course
 

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I also added the purple spring to my cr9 secondary set up, with 9 pucks (75.9) and 160/290 primary...its the best set up to date for me personally. The bottom end midrange pull is fabulous. Studded ice ripper and still spinning the track at speed. Coolest clutches ive had yet with this combo as well. I had the green spring in it....purples just better. IMO best engine breaking too......cudneys silver was too stout for me.

New studded track next season will be my big next improvement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
It may not be exactly 300 ft did not take the tape measure to it this year just paced it off so yes the times might be a little high. Track was snow covered but it did spin but still came out about what you would on a little softer trail not a total hardpack. Most trails a lot of times are not total hardpack. Thanks kurt
 
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