ST weight comparo

3266 Views 54 Replies 27 Participants Last post by ateick, 13 d ago

yellowjacket

Discussion Starter · 30 d ago

Interesting, I guess Doos are pretty heavy after all.

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41 - 55 of 55 Posts

_leo_

· #41 · 24 d ago

Baron said:
This take is false. A snowmobile that weighs less is easier to maneuver, easier to stop, and goes quicker. Sure smaller payload brings the gross weight down. But ANYONE that rides a lighter sled will have a better experience. When I hear reduce your own weight, I think that needs to come from cargo. Bags, fuel, oil, tools, bumpers, lights, all this adds weight that negatively impacts the performance and rideability of the snowmobile.

I beg to differ, I blew the track on my 1200 on my last trip, rented a 600 Polaris and was able to right a rave re for about 180km, didn't really notice a different is steering effort, the Polaris actually felt a heal of alot heavier then my Gade did. At a 45/55 transfer that I have on my 1200 the weight difference is maybe 15-20 lbs. Over the skis, when it comes to trail riding, thats minor in my opinion.

That said, I still loved the Lynx, I didn't think it was miles better then my 1200 but I loved the transfer of it and the way it rode the bumps

MrExtinctastag

· #42 · 24 d ago

Very interesting. I'm surprised at how much more the 4S weighed than the other Polaris sleds. A little shocked to see how much more Ski Doo weighs than the Polaris sleds.

yellowjacket

Discussion Starter · #43 · 24 d ago

I think they put leaded gas in the Doos!

Reactions: 4

_leo_

· #44 · 24 d ago

MrExtinctastag said:
Very interesting. I'm surprised at how much more the 4S weighed than the other Polaris sleds. A little shocked to see how much more Ski Doo weighs than the Polaris sleds.

i thought the same thing, how does a 1000 cc twin cylinder 4 stroke weigh over 100lbs more dry then an Indy 850 XCR even with all its chassis reinforcements. its just a little baffling

Rotax has the 600R Etec and 600Ace fairly close in weight with 3 kilos difference in just the engine (understandable given the larger head and the need for cam shafts and timing chains. i cant imagine the poo 4S is that much heavier

kpelzman

· #45 · 24 d ago

One thing I noticed is that doo still uses torsion springs in the rear while polaris/cat uses a coilover shock in the rear end for their mountain sleds. Anyone know why this is? Also, why do all trail sleds use torsion springs? I am sure the weight difference insnt huge, but I would think its gotta be something, right?

DenonO

· #46 · 24 d ago

kpelzman said:
One thing I noticed is that doo still uses torsion springs in the rear while polaris/cat uses a coilover shock in the rear end for their mountain sleds. Anyone know why this is? Also, why do all trail sleds use torsion springs? I am sure the weight difference insnt huge, but I would think its gotta be something, right?

Because they can uncouple the spring and shock action to get the buttery smooth ride Rmotion is known for. Mountain sleds, ride is way less important, because they have about 30' of powder to cushion everything...but weight is king, and coilovers (or air shocks) are lighter.

Different solutions for different problems.

Reactions: 1

_leo_

· #47 · 24 d ago

kpelzman said:
One thing I noticed is that doo still uses torsion springs in the rear while polaris/cat uses a coilover shock in the rear end for their mountain sleds. Anyone know why this is? Also, why do all trail sleds use torsion springs? I am sure the weight difference insnt huge, but I would think its gotta be something, right?

torsion springs are rising rated springs, the further you go the tighter the more they resist bottoming, they also can be preloaded differently that effects ride height and stiffness, you're basically getting a variable rate spring with torsion springs.

coil overs tend to take up the spring as you preload the shock collar and you reduce plushness on the top end of the travel. either way you look at it, its a steady spring rate, every inch of take up adds a set amount of resistance

John gives some great information on suspension tuning and characteristics, its a great watch if you have the time

mile9c1

· #48 · 24 d ago

The G5 does hold slightly more fuel than the Yamaha, 0.5 gallons more.

Two years ago at the Old Forge shootout a 2022 Renegade 850 X G4 weighed 100 pounds less than a powersteeting Thundercat (wet weight).

tnt5150

· #49 · 23 d ago

A lighter sled is more flickable especially when the rider is a decent weight. However, a lighter sled doesn't mean better handling. Having owned a 2008 TNT @399 lbs, it was a blast but getting a sled 75lbs heavier made for a better ride. I don't trust any of these weights cause track length, lug height and more add weight quick. Best policy is to weigh your own sled. Hanging scales are like $40.

900mac

· #50 · 23 d ago

_leo_ said:
i thought the same thing, how does a 1000 cc twin cylinder 4 stroke weigh over 100lbs more dry then an Indy 850 XCR even with all its chassis reinforcements. its just a little baffling

Rotax has the 600R Etec and 600Ace fairly close in weight with 3 kilos difference in just the engine (understandable given the larger head and the need for cam shafts and timing chains. i cant imagine the poo 4S is that much heavier

I have not seen the reverse set up for the 4s Polaris, It may add some of the extra weight?

_leo_

· #51 · 23 d ago

900mac said:
I have not seen the reverse set up for the 4s Polaris, It may add some of the extra weight?

i still can't see it adding that much extra weight, even if it was an electric motor driving it in reverse. i can see a reverse setup maybe adding 10 lbs at most if theres an electric actuator and a few extra gears in the chain case, but an extra 100lbs for the same chassis and skid length.

72bu

· #52 · 23 d ago

_leo_ said:
I beg to differ, I blew the track on my 1200 on my last trip, rented a 600 Polaris and was able to right a rave re for about 180km, didn't really notice a different is steering effort, the Polaris actually felt a heal of alot heavier then my Gade did. At a 45/55 transfer that I have on my 1200 the weight difference is maybe 15-20 lbs. Over the skis, when it comes to trail riding, thats minor in my opinion.

That said, I still loved the Lynx, I didn't think it was miles better then my 1200 but I loved the transfer of it and the way it rode the bumps

Steering feel is about how you set up your sled. I’m sure if you played with the settings on the Polaris you would have been able to get it closer to your liking.

Going from a 900ace to a 600R was huge for my wife. The sled feels lighter and takes less effort to corner. Even with a big HP increase it’s easier for her to handle.

sno_mo_racer

· #53 · 23 d ago

tnt5150 said:
A lighter sled is more flickable especially when the rider is a decent weight. However, a lighter sled doesn't mean better handling. Having owned a 2008 TNT @399 lbs, it was a blast but getting a sled 75lbs heavier made for a better ride. I don't trust any of these weights cause track length, lug height and more add weight quick. Best policy is to weigh your own sled. Hanging scales are like $40.

That crappy handling wasn’t due to the lighter weight. Just the nature of the crappy chassis and model it was. Cheap shocks, soft flexy chassis, etc. On every good chassis, lighter will always handle and respond best.

Alatalo

· #54 · 23 d ago

There is no doubt lighter is better when it comes to creating good performance and good handling characteristics out of any and all chassis designs. Every change of velocity - no matter if we talk forward acceleration from a standstill, braking from high velocity or turning into a tight corner - is all about accelerating the masses involved. Lighter masses is the preferred scenario because lighter masses require lower forces and less energy input. From a riders perspective in the end of a long day - less exhausting to ride. Anybody claiming the opposite will have a hard time explaining their theory to any engineer in the vehicle industry...

All of this is very well summarized in the forewords to Milliken's massive book "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics" (the bible for all race car engineers) - racing is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration in the appropriate direction...

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ateick

· #55 · 13 d ago (Edited)

ateick said:
Not sure why Snowtraks would cheat and lie to an audience that can fact check them for the price of a $50 1000lbs scale from Amazon and a block and tackle. It's one thing for them to have an opinion that you think is somehow biased but a weight?

I don't have mine yet or I might do just that - throw it on a scale. Anyone else wanna volunteer? I'm a lot less trusting of any of these manufacturers than I am by a tv program sponsored by 3 of them.

So originally I posted that I thought the results of this weight experiment were what they were and it'd be easy to dispute so why would they post incorrect numbers. Lot's of other discussions about this weight topic so I did a little looking around at weights and something just doesn't make sense for the Doo's. Now there are likely some differences for studding and full tanks vs. empty but 550-597lbs is a long way away from the 651lbs from the Snowtraks results unless Doo has packed a lot of weight on with the Gen 5 platform. Who wants to string one up?

2022 NY Shootout sled weights

MachZ - 620lbs (5 gallons of fuel)
TCat w EPS - 645 (4 gallons)
AC ZR8000RR - 558 (4 gallons)
Doo Rene X 850 - 550 (5 gallons)

2019 Shootout sled weights

SRX - 669
Doo Rene XRS 900T - 639.5
Doo BackCountry XRS - 564
Poo Indy XC 850 - 575

2017

Winder LTX-SE - 671
TCat - 684
Doo Rene x 850 - 597
Doo MXZ x 850 - 601
Poo Assault - 584

Stevewithocd (member)

Doo Rene X 900r - 622
Winder LTX-LE - 694

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