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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,

I am looking to purchase a SWT Skandic but I am having trouble deciding which motor to go with.

I am going to be using it exclusively for trapping/hunting so top end speed is not really a requirement (tops 50km/hr generally). Most of the travel will be on cat trails or in the timber. There is a bit of lake travel which always has overflow. I am concerned that the ACE will not have enough "jam" when you hit 2 feet of overflow at 30-40 km/hr to get you out. The terrain generally does not have steep hills (less than 100 feet) but having some power is good. There is lots of "sugar" powder on my trapline in which I will be constantly breaking trail. I generally will not be towing a toboggan/skimmer unless the trail is broken.

The temperature can drop down to -50 so cold starting is always an issue (however it is normally only -30-35 *c). I don't have any problem carrying a portable genset for the ACE but the pull start on the ETEC is also nice... Money is also no issue.

I would rather only run regular gas as my other snowmobile (96 Tundra II), truck, generator, chainsaw uses regular. I also think that the long term reliability/gas mileage of the ACE would be a benefit over the Etec...

Quite the dilemma! Any help/advice/experiences would be great.

Thanks,
 

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600 ACE. It's a workhorse and is a much better match to a Skandic SWT that the 600 e-tec. There might be a 900 ACE skandic for the 2015 line spring order, should see some information on that in late February or early march 2014.

My mate has the 2014 600 ace WT Skanidc and it's comparable in power to my older 800 4-tec swt.

Here is a video of two swt's breaking trail together one is the 600 e-tec and the other is the 800 4-tec which will give you a bit more of an idea on what the 600 ace can do.


If memory serves the sled with the camera is the 600 e-tec.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for that Samoyed.

I have ridden a 550 WT Skandic and was wondering if that would compare to the 500 ACE in the SWT? To me it seems that the 550 has plenty of power for touring around level terrain. As long as there is not a pile of snow it is fine on the inclines as well. Speed is not my main consideration however traveling through overflow i am not sure if torque or top end speed is best.
 

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I have a 13 SWT with the 600etec, and I've never, ever wanted less power.

The 600 ACE probably makes more torque lower in the range, which I'd imagine is good for some things - I had a Summit 1000 for a couple of seasons, and while it made more top end power than my other sleds, what really stood out was the mid throttle torque it had - three people on the sled on a steep incline, it'd churn right up at 1/2-2/3 throttle.

I think there's something there - midrange torque vs top end power - but I'd ALSO be very curious to see a 600 ACE dyno sheet vs a 600 etec.

I'm a bit of a car geek in the summer. I used to autocross early watercooled VWs.

At that time, most Rabbit/Scirocco engines were 1.8 liter 8-valve engines - two valves per cylinder.

Then, in...86? 87? the 1.8 liter 16v engine came out. Same bottom end/displacement, a bit more compression, four valves per cylinder.

A LOT of people "preferred" the torque of the 8v, saying the 16v was "gutless" below 4500rpm or so.

As it turns out, the 16v motors came "on the cam" so hard at around 4500 that they *felt* weak compared to the 8v. In reality, they were virtually identical <4500, and considerably stronger >4500.

I kinda wonder if this is the same; the 4t motors are more linear and smoother and things compared to the 2t, but the throttle is a rheostat, not a switch.

Dunno. Seems to me the ACEs win in terms of economy, emissions, noise and long term durability (???? 600 etecs tend to last a long time, too....).

FOR ME, if cost is not a factor, I'd buy the etec every time. The 600etec gets decent mileage, is not smoky, not really loud, and while you might not need the power all the time, it is nice to have. That said, I'd think either one would do just fine for Lotep. The only time I _use_ all the power is on steep, untracked hills - having the ability to get the sled moving quickly is nice; I've ridden a 550 fan motor in the past, and, well, no, "moving quickly" is not an option;).

(and that was on a Freestyle, not a bargey Skandic;)

??? Dunno. If anything, I want more power out of my sled, I often jokingly talk about putting an 800etec into it.

There might be something valuable in the ACE when it comes to towing huge loads, I suppose, but....ehhhh? Not sure. I absolutely love my etecs. I don't have many miles on either (600 on the 600, 220ish on the 800), but they've never missed a beat, they're seemingly very, very reliable, durable, shrug, dunno! We don't put many miles/kms on our sleds here (Colorado), as a rule, though - 5000kms/3100 miles is several (like five) seasons for me, seems like a lot of you put that many on in a season pretty easily.

I don't expect to have to do anything on mine til 5000 miles, then maybe a top end/grease crank bearings. Who knows, it might blow up next year, but there are several etecs at my local shop with 4-5k miles & nothing but fuel and oil.

I'd buy an etec, but I suspect the ACE would work just fine.

Iain (still a two-stroke fan, especially etecs....)
 

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The 550f is stronger than the older 503 rotax swt's. The downside to the 550f is that it guzzles gas, and does get warm in the later parts of the season but you can compensate by a little pre-mix oil in the gas. Unfortunately the 550f is no longer available in the 2014 line but new 2013's are still around.

Thanks for that Samoyed.

I have ridden a 550 WT Skandic and was wondering if that would compare to the 500 ACE in the SWT? To me it seems that the 550 has plenty of power for touring around level terrain. As long as there is not a pile of snow it is fine on the inclines as well. Speed is not my main consideration however traveling through overflow i am not sure if torque or top end speed is best.
 

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Don't let the low HP figure for the 600 ACE fool you. It doesn't 'feel' or sound as zippy as a 2 stroke - the torque is what gets it moving.

I compare them to the old 12 valve Cummins Diesel in the dodge trucks. You wont break any track records, but try lugging one down when it wants to pull. They hang on to their rpm under load.

I had the opportunity to try an Expedition Sport with the 900 ACE over the holidays. It's an awesome powerplant with stump pulling torque. That engine in a Skandic setup will be sweet if it happens. A 900 Ace with low range gearbox would yank a house off its foundation.
 

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brombones I'm with you, the ace is great! The low end torque is also great in deep snow as you have the low RPM power. I love mine and I just got 23 MPG on the last tankful. I think the 600 would be fine in a SWT but I bet a 900 would pull like a skidder! I haven't even got to see a 900 yet.
 

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The 4 stroke engine options or even the 550f two stroke are the better choice for long and or long heavy hauls as well as constant stop & go in tight spaces. The 600 e-tec is better is more open areas with room to maneuver. The 900 ace is meant to be the bridge between the two, at lease that's what they are hoping it will be.

About two days left to wait to see if we get a 900 skandic and if it's configured any differently . I would be nice if it had the syncromesh tranny that can-am adopted for their new outlander 6x6 atv. An extra ultra low gear coupled with 90hp and about 75ftlbs of torque would be useful on heavy pulls up hills and better fuel economy.

Yamaha is rumored to be bringing out a whole new utility sleds for 2015. We shall see.
 

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What would be nice is a 725 ACE 2 cylinder with an additional offset geared PTO much like modern small diesels for the use of a pull start. I was recently looking at a 1000cc kohler diesel and it had such a pull start, so does the neander 800cc TDI engine as well as the Track800 diesel.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I have no idea why BRP does not invent - or steal - the pull start off any of their quads and put it on a sled for the 600 ACE. For me, adding the extra weight would be WELL worth having a pull start...
 

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That last atv BRP had with a pull start was the Traxter/Traxter max 500. Probably one of the best engines ever made, dual spark plugs, very good fuel economy for a single cylinder. It would be the best engine for a litefoot sled. If you could get your hands on one that is.

I have no idea why BRP does not invent - or steal - the pull start off any of their quads and put it on a sled for the 600 ACE. For me, adding the extra weight would be WELL worth having a pull start...
 

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The 4 stroke engine options or even the 550f two stroke are the better choice for long and or long heavy hauls as well as constant stop & go in tight spaces. The 600 e-tec is better is more open areas with room to maneuver.
Why?

Not being argumentative at ALL - I really don't know.

My 600 ETEC is happy to chug along at 20, 30, 40mph with a moderate load ON it, not sure I can envision it being any better?

Serious question, and not in a snide/rude way - I just can't wrap my head around why the ACE/fan would be *better* - I need to ride a SWT with one of those motors.

Good problem to have, though! Thanks!

Iain
 
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