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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Background - Been riding for 20 yrs+, trails or screw ups off trail when I would miss a corner and my age is over 55.

I bought a BC 850 Adrenaline mid last season so I could try off trail as I am close to the Maine border in NH.

I just put the adjustable from end on it this off season, no other aftermarket and I do not wish to change shocks, etc.

I know pretty much nothing other than following friends on Summits and RMKs...and I can get stuck going straight.

Now my question as I need help.

I have watched a number of videos to understand how to get my sled (me) to get my BC on edge and initiate/sustain/complete a turn and I cannot figure it out.

99% of this is most likely I'm intimidated to do it. On top of that when I try to step to one side while riding I cannot get the sled to tip and that's where I need pointers please.

I have figured out "you hesitate on the throttle and let your skis drop...you get stuck" but can't get past that or figure out how to get the sled to lay over.

Looking for rookie advice on how to start to learn.

I've ridden rice rocket motorcycles for years, competition slalom water skier, (both force one to have aggressive leans to corner hard and run Porsches at speed so I'm not mentally or physically inept but I can't figure this out. I'm as analytic as they come and constantly calculating brake points, throttle points, turn in points when riding or on a track driving so I can follow guidance if it is that style.

Tips? Advice?
 

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hit the gym, bro!

Seriously though my guess is that you need to find the timing of throttle hitting and your muscles and body weight doing the rest.
 

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i'm a rookie as well and experienced frustration at turning my freeride. i've ridden stand-up jet skis for years in flat water and surf so i figured some of that would translate over to mountain sleds but not so much. anyway, to get it to lean over you have to counter steer, blip the throttle, and lean. it's not intuitive at first but once you do it a few times it becomes natural. also, this is easier to do if you have some soft snow under you as opposed to hard pack. i also adjusted my suspension to be softer and removed the sway bar link.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
i'm a rookie as well and experienced frustration at turning my freeride. i've ridden stand-up jet skis for years in flat water and surf so i figured some of that would translate over to mountain sleds but not so much. anyway, to get it to lean over you have to counter steer, blip the throttle, and lean. it's not intuitive at first but once you do it a few times it becomes natural. also, this is easier to do if you have some soft snow under year as opposed to hard pack. i also adjusted my suspension to be softer and removed the sway bar link.
I've been told to counter steer, and recognize that to make a motorcycle lean over more.

Do you counter steer first and throttle second or do you throttle then counter steer?
 

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Counter steer first touch the throttle and the sled will start to lean as you go into the turn. the trick is finding the balance point when you need to point the skis back into the turn. If you dont move the skis in time you will tip over. It will take practice, you should try and find an area with at least 14" of unsetup snow to practice on.
 

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Practice the 1. counter steer, 2. blip of throttle, 3. lean while the sled is moving. Look ahead and have good body positioning. Watching the videos will help. If you dont have a perfect field of untouched pow to play in.

Try getting the sled on edge (one ski) on a groomed trail. Wrong foot forward technique will help on this. Kinda kick you outside leg while doing 1. 2. 3.. This will help tipping the sled without throwing too much weight and falling over. Once the sled is on one ski. stop and put your foot down. And balance the sled. Your on edge now. Throttle control and balancing the sled in the sweet spot is key to keeping the sled on one ski and moving forward. As you continue down the trail make your sled go on edge 10 times on both sides. Using 1. 2. 3. technique. Dont go too fast, but keep some momentum going forward.

Its hard to get stuck on the trail attempting this so you can use more of your energy learning the timing of counter steering, blip and lean. Use your leg to push down on the running board, avoid yanking on the handlebars. Good body positioning! like Brent R in the pic above. looking ahead keeping the machine close to you. Once you get better at getting the sled on edge with little effort (both sides). U may already have done this by now but SLOWLY like jogging speed cruise down the trail on one ski for as long as possible and turn the sled left and right while on one ski. You can do this Moto style or wrong foot forward. Give it a go and report back!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Practice the 1. counter steer, 2. blip of throttle, 3. lean while the sled is moving. Look ahead and have good body positioning. Watching the videos will help. If you dont have a perfect field of untouched pow to play in.

Try getting the sled on edge (one ski) on a groomed trail. Wrong foot forward technique will help on this. Kinda kick you outside leg while doing 1. 2. 3.. This will help tipping the sled without throwing too much weight and falling over. Once the sled is on one ski. stop and put your foot down. And balance the sled. Your on edge now. Throttle control and balancing the sled in the sweet spot is key to keeping the sled on one ski and moving forward. As you continue down the trail make your sled go on edge 10 times on both sides. Using 1. 2. 3. technique. Dont go too fast, but keep some momentum going forward.

Its hard to get stuck on the trail attempting this so you can use more of your energy learning the timing of counter steering, blip and lean. Use your leg to push down on the running board, avoid yanking on the handlebars. Good body positioning! like Brent R in the pic above. looking ahead keeping the machine close to you. Once you get better at getting the sled on edge with little effort (both sides). U may already have done this by now but SLOWLY like jogging speed cruise down the trail on one ski for as long as possible and turn the sled left and right while on one ski. You can do this Moto style or wrong foot forward. Give it a go and report back!!
It's comical you say "avoid yanking on the handlebars" because that's what I had been trying at the end of last season...it didn't work.
 

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You got some good explanations perfect for an analytical mind :)

I too tried pulling the handlebars with no luck lol

It led to pretend it was an MX.

I am young enough have needed to follow motorcycle lessons lol The instructor had a particular style by pounding counter-steering and look where you want to go into our heads. I still can't ride a bicycle without thinking of that. With the old Big Red 3 wheeler I would use counter-steer to get onto two wheels, and wrong foot forward for tricks lol That's what I was thinking when reading Chowder practice routines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
You got some good explanations perfect for an analytical mind :)

I too tried pulling the handlebars with no luck lol

It led to pretend it was an MX.

I am young enough have needed to follow motorcycle lessons lol The instructor had a particular style by pounding counter-steering and look where you want to go into our heads. I still can't ride a bicycle without thinking of that. With the old Big Red 3 wheeler I would use counter-steer to get onto two wheels, and wrong foot forward for tricks lol That's what I was thinking when reading Chowder practice routines.
From the advice everyone gave here I feel I now have a grasp of the basics. There is a field nearby that I can try this once we see enough snow. Analytics is great as long as your perception of reality matches reality. My perception of reality was to try to pull up on the handlebars while initialing a turn and giving light throttle obviously was not based in true reality.
 

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A helpful thing would be to remove the sway bar link to help get your sled up on edge.

A lot of good info already posted. My son just started learning how to ride "off trail" last year with his Formula S 380 and we spent a lot of time in the fields. I gave him a lot of the same advice given and kept telling him not to worry about getting stuck or tipping over, because tipping over is how you find the balance point and how far passed the tipping point is too much. Because when you carve, you will go passed the tipping point and can correct that with body position, steering, and speed.

I learned to carve a long time ago with just 2 feet on the same running board and leaning back into the carve. I am way more comfortable doing that than wrong foot forward style, but the wrong foot forward style is extremely helpful while sidehilling, so definitely a technique that should be learned.

Learning and trusting the balance point on your sled is most important. Just leaning, steering, and throttle control in the right conditions makes it really easy to carve. You will get there with some practice.

Some fun pictures of when we were in a field teaching my son to carve and my daughter was riding with me on our 1200 Grand Touring haha! This year my son has upgraded to a '13 Renegade 600etec so a lot to learn with the new sled again.

Snow Snowmobile Vehicle Automotive tire Tree

Snow Vehicle Automotive tire Helmet Tree
 

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From the advice everyone gave here I feel I now have a grasp of the basics. There is a field nearby that I can try this once we see enough snow. Analytics is great as long as your perception of reality matches reality. My perception of reality was to try to pull up on the handlebars while initialing a turn and giving light throttle obviously was not based in true reality.
What a headache to wake up to the reality that it is only a perception that changes daily lol Different engine weight and ski stance changes what I can make happen and the effort needed. The Olympic remains my off-trail sled lol
 

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SkidooSteve12, any tricks to protect the throttle lever from snapping? lol Serious question though.
 

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Perfect. Brett's video showed it perfectly, now need a field and enough snow.
Time well spent while you wait for that big dump of snow!

Another technique that, once you master it, you will have a lot more control over your sled... basically it's using the brake to control the speed of the sled, and the throttle to keep the the belt engaged. Easier said than done.
 
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SkidooSteve12, any tricks to protect the throttle lever from snapping? lol Serious question though.
LOL!!! Munster Finger Throttle and guard??? haha Or not carving in 6" of snow? Man that sled flip caught me off guard, never would have expected that to happen in an open field. In the trees maybe.

The video in question:
 

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SkidooSteve12, any tricks to protect the throttle lever from snapping? lol Serious question though.
Carry a spare or two. For real. I keep at least one in the trailer, and usually a repaired one handy.

For the OP. Sled setup and body position are very key things in this. Many people run their handle bars way too high. Logic says this gives you better leverage to get a sled on edge, but it actually does worse. It's keep your center of gravity too high, and usually bucks and throws you; especially in low snow conditions. Get your sled setup (I would disconnect the sway bar starting out on a BC, not on a Summit) and this will help things a bit.

As for field practice, that's a great way to learn so don't be ashamed. Even better if you can find a small hill to practice on. If you can get used to handling in low snow, you'll have even more fun when you get into real conditions

Last thing. Not sure where you're located or what your budget is. If you can put the money together to go ride with Burandt, Adams, or Kuster; do it. These guys will teach you lots of valuable info. If you can't justify that, con some good riders to take you out for a day and see what you can pick from their brains and how they ride.
 
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