Ski-Doo Snowmobiles Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,810 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
If I was to upgrade my rear suspension on my 99 Mach Z, bang for your buck am I better off

(1) - picking up a set of rebuildables to fit my SC-10

(2) - trying to get a hold of a SC-10 II or III (are the eye to eye mounting holes the same?)

or

(3) - going with an aftermarket suspension like an M10.

Right now I have original rear shocks and springs and the sled bottoms very easy when doubling (I have a two up seat I throw on when my wife comes outs). I'm sure just buying new ones would make a big difference but I'm looking to make things a little stiffer to account for the extra weight of her sitting behind me (she is about 100 lbs).

I should mention that I do like to have good weight transfer for the occasional friendly drag race and love the adjustability of the original SC-10 (specifically the ACM nut). I have a feeling however that a fully coupled suspension may be better for doubling? Opinions anyone?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
XcellR8 said:
If I was to upgrade my rear suspension on my 99 Mach Z, bang for your buck am I better off

(1) - picking up a set of rebuildables to fit my SC-10

(2) - trying to get a hold of a SC-10 II or III (are the eye to eye mounting holes the same?)

or

(3) - going with an aftermarket suspension like an M10.

Right now I have original rear shocks and springs and the sled bottoms very easy when doubling (I have a two up seat I throw on when my wife comes outs). I'm sure just buying new ones would make a big difference but I'm looking to make things a little stiffer to account for the extra weight of her sitting behind me (she is about 100 lbs).

I should mention that I do like to have good weight transfer for the occasional friendly drag race and love the adjustability of the original SC-10 (specifically the ACM nut). I have a feeling however that a fully coupled suspension may be better for doubling? Opinions anyone?
[snapback]699108[/snapback]​
I'd give the boys from FAST a call. They build the M-10. If you can get hold of Gerard you hit the jackpot. He a great guy and will give the a straight answer. David is in sales and will probably be able to help you out as well. Great group of guys to work with. Website is www.teamfast.com
Brad
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,810 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
SnowGlow Bad said:
XcellR8 said:
If I was to upgrade my rear suspension on my 99 Mach Z, bang for your buck am I better off

(1) - picking up a set of rebuildables to fit my SC-10

(2) - trying to get a hold of a SC-10 II or III (are the eye to eye mounting holes the same?)

or

(3) - going with an aftermarket suspension like an M10.

Right now I have original rear shocks and springs and the sled bottoms very easy when doubling (I have a two up seat I throw on when my wife comes outs). I'm sure just buying new ones would make a big difference but I'm looking to make things a little stiffer to account for the extra weight of her sitting behind me (she is about 100 lbs).

I should mention that I do like to have good weight transfer for the occasional friendly drag race and love the adjustability of the original SC-10 (specifically the ACM nut). I have a feeling however that a fully coupled suspension may be better for doubling? Opinions anyone?
[snapback]699108[/snapback]​
I'd give the boys from FAST a call. They build the M-10. If you can get hold of Gerard you hit the jackpot. He a great guy and will give the a straight answer. David is in sales and will probably be able to help you out as well. Great group of guys to work with. Website is www.teamfast.com
Brad
[snapback]699164[/snapback]​
I've read before that the M10 takes away from top end and is not very good in powder, is this true?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
841 Posts
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Vehicle Motor vehicle The M-10 takes away from weight transfer, and a little in the powder. If you are not going to drag all the time and want a smooth ride, go for the m-10.
Here is a picture of my 00' with the M-10 and FAST's BLT front end.
 

Attachments

·
Banned
Joined
·
89 Posts
XcellR8 said:
SnowGlow Bad said:
XcellR8 said:
If I was to upgrade my rear suspension on my 99 Mach Z, bang for your buck am I better off

(1) - picking up a set of rebuildables to fit my SC-10

(2) - trying to get a hold of a SC-10 II or III (are the eye to eye mounting holes the same?)

or

(3) - going with an aftermarket suspension like an M10.

Right now I have original rear shocks and springs and the sled bottoms very easy when doubling (I have a two up seat I throw on when my wife comes outs). I'm sure just buying new ones would make a big difference but I'm looking to make things a little stiffer to account for the extra weight of her sitting behind me (she is about 100 lbs).

I should mention that I do like to have good weight transfer for the occasional friendly drag race and love the adjustability of the original SC-10 (specifically the ACM nut). I have a feeling however that a fully coupled suspension may be better for doubling? Opinions anyone?
[snapback]699108[/snapback]​
I'd give the boys from FAST a call. They build the M-10. If you can get hold of Gerard you hit the jackpot. He a great guy and will give the a straight answer. David is in sales and will probably be able to help you out as well. Great group of guys to work with. Website is www.teamfast.com
Brad
[snapback]699164[/snapback]​
I've read before that the M10 takes away from top end and is not very good in powder, is this true?
[snapback]700657[/snapback]​
I put the SC-10 II in my 99 Mach Z and the holes do NOT line up you have to move the back ones ahead toward the cowel like a half an inch. If you bolt it in using the factory holes your SC-10 II will be stiff as all hell and you will get no transfer b/c the geomety of the suspension is off. Trust me been there... I weighed 230lbs and could not get it to even flex cause it was sitting against the rear blocks... Which made for alot of spin with 192 studs and no hook up. A very easy fix was to unbolt the back of the suspension and drilled new holes ahead towards the cowel in the plate thats already there.. It was an entirely differnet sled after doing that... Now it sits and pulls the skis likea son of a bitch... I got my Sc-10 II pretty cheap thats why i went in that direction i could not see putting a bunch of money in a sled that was going on 7 years old....Let me know if ya got any more questions...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,810 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
jblair said:
XcellR8 said:
SnowGlow Bad said:
XcellR8 said:
If I was to upgrade my rear suspension on my 99 Mach Z, bang for your buck am I better off

(1) - picking up a set of rebuildables to fit my SC-10

(2) - trying to get a hold of a SC-10 II or III (are the eye to eye mounting holes the same?)

or

(3) - going with an aftermarket suspension like an M10.

Right now I have original rear shocks and springs and the sled bottoms very easy when doubling (I have a two up seat I throw on when my wife comes outs). I'm sure just buying new ones would make a big difference but I'm looking to make things a little stiffer to account for the extra weight of her sitting behind me (she is about 100 lbs).

I should mention that I do like to have good weight transfer for the occasional friendly drag race and love the adjustability of the original SC-10 (specifically the ACM nut). I have a feeling however that a fully coupled suspension may be better for doubling? Opinions anyone?
[snapback]699108[/snapback]​
I'd give the boys from FAST a call. They build the M-10. If you can get hold of Gerard you hit the jackpot. He a great guy and will give the a straight answer. David is in sales and will probably be able to help you out as well. Great group of guys to work with. Website is www.teamfast.com
Brad
[snapback]699164[/snapback]​
I've read before that the M10 takes away from top end and is not very good in powder, is this true?
[snapback]700657[/snapback]​
I put the SC-10 II in my 99 Mach Z and the holes do NOT line up you have to move the back ones ahead toward the cowel like a half an inch. If you bolt it in using the factory holes your SC-10 II will be stiff as all hell and you will get no transfer b/c the geomety of the suspension is off. Trust me been there... I weighed 230lbs and could not get it to even flex cause it was sitting against the rear blocks... Which made for alot of spin with 192 studs and no hook up. A very easy fix was to unbolt the back of the suspension and drilled new holes ahead towards the cowel in the plate thats already there.. It was an entirely differnet sled after doing that... Now it sits and pulls the skis likea son of a bitch... I got my Sc-10 II pretty cheap thats why i went in that direction i could not see putting a bunch of money in a sled that was going on 7 years old....Let me know if ya got any more questions...
[snapback]700856[/snapback]​
Did you measure the distance between the mounting holes while both skids were out (and set similiar - both on softest settings or both on the hardset settings)? Any chance that something was "flipped" in the suspension the first time you installed it (I'm suprised that a 1/2" would make that much difference)?

I was told on the weekend by a buddy who buys/fixes wrecked sleds that the mounting holes of the SC10-I, SC10-II and SC10-III are all the same? I guess I can always get a buddy of mine to measure the distance between the mounting holes on his 2000 MXZ 700 to see if they are closer than my CK3 ...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,810 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
machz123 said:
View attachment 46598 The M-10 takes away from weight transfer, and a little in the powder. If you are not going to drag all the time and want a smooth ride, go for the m-10.
Here is a picture of my 00' with the M-10 and FAST's BLT front end.
[snapback]700845[/snapback]​
How's the M10 for doubling (with a two up seat)? Did it bolt right in? Is it less resistant to bottoming than the SC10-?? Does the skid need to be removed to change sliders and/or to remove the shocks for rebuilding?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
89 Posts
XcellR8 said:
jblair said:
XcellR8 said:
SnowGlow Bad said:
XcellR8 said:
If I was to upgrade my rear suspension on my 99 Mach Z, bang for your buck am I better off

(1) - picking up a set of rebuildables to fit my SC-10

(2) - trying to get a hold of a SC-10 II or III (are the eye to eye mounting holes the same?)

or

(3) - going with an aftermarket suspension like an M10.

Right now I have original rear shocks and springs and the sled bottoms very easy when doubling (I have a two up seat I throw on when my wife comes outs). I'm sure just buying new ones would make a big difference but I'm looking to make things a little stiffer to account for the extra weight of her sitting behind me (she is about 100 lbs).

I should mention that I do like to have good weight transfer for the occasional friendly drag race and love the adjustability of the original SC-10 (specifically the ACM nut). I have a feeling however that a fully coupled suspension may be better for doubling? Opinions anyone?
[snapback]699108[/snapback]​
I'd give the boys from FAST a call. They build the M-10. If you can get hold of Gerard you hit the jackpot. He a great guy and will give the a straight answer. David is in sales and will probably be able to help you out as well. Great group of guys to work with. Website is www.teamfast.com
Brad
[snapback]699164[/snapback]​
I've read before that the M10 takes away from top end and is not very good in powder, is this true?
[snapback]700657[/snapback]​
I put the SC-10 II in my 99 Mach Z and the holes do NOT line up you have to move the back ones ahead toward the cowel like a half an inch. If you bolt it in using the factory holes your SC-10 II will be stiff as all hell and you will get no transfer b/c the geomety of the suspension is off. Trust me been there... I weighed 230lbs and could not get it to even flex cause it was sitting against the rear blocks... Which made for alot of spin with 192 studs and no hook up. A very easy fix was to unbolt the back of the suspension and drilled new holes ahead towards the cowel in the plate thats already there.. It was an entirely differnet sled after doing that... Now it sits and pulls the skis likea son of a bitch... I got my Sc-10 II pretty cheap thats why i went in that direction i could not see putting a bunch of money in a sled that was going on 7 years old....Let me know if ya got any more questions...
[snapback]700856[/snapback]​
Did you measure the distance between the mounting holes while both skids were out (and set similiar - both on softest settings or both on the hardset settings)? Any chance that something was "flipped" in the suspension the first time you installed it (I'm suprised that a 1/2" would make that much difference)?

I was told on the weekend by a buddy who buys/fixes wrecked sleds that the mounting holes of the SC10-I, SC10-II and SC10-III are all the same? I guess I can always get a buddy of mine to measure the distance between the mounting holes on his 2000 MXZ 700 to see if they are closer than my CK3 ...
[snapback]702788[/snapback]​
That might be the case that the distance between holes are the same on the SC-10- I -II and-III but what you need to make sure is the mounting holes on your chasis you are trying to work with. The mach came out with SC-10 II in the 2001 Z...They chasis mounting holes are going to be alot different S-Chasis compared to the CK3 compared to the new rev......

But yeah thats what i did measured the hole to hole on the SC-10 II it depends on the size of your idler wheels you have in your SC-10 mine had the bigger ones it hink like (88mm maybe)??... My buddy told me the same thing that it would just bolt on. But come to find out that didnt work he said he had a older mach i think it was like a 96' with the S-chasis that he put a SC-10 III and it had the smaller idler wheels and he had to move the front bolts back towards the tail light like 3/4 of an inch. There is something about the CK3 chasis that makes them a little different. It might have been a little less the a half inch but yeah i was surpised how much a differnece that made to but it got the blocks to sit in the middle vs. against the back of it..Where it could not move to work...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
XcellR8 said:
machz123 said:
View attachment 46598 The M-10 takes away from weight transfer, and a little in the powder. If you are not going to drag all the time and want a smooth ride, go for the m-10.
Here is a picture of my 00' with the M-10 and FAST's BLT front end.
[snapback]700845[/snapback]​
How's the M10 for doubling (with a two up seat)? Did it bolt right in? Is it less resistant to bottoming than the SC10-?? Does the skid need to be removed to change sliders and/or to remove the shocks for rebuilding?
[snapback]702809[/snapback]​
The M-10 is fully adjustable and easily done. Sliders and shocks can be changed without skid removal. The springs can be ordered to accomodate your intended load and have significant adjustment range.

Transfer is not as good with the M-10 and top end is reduced about 5 mph. Those are the only drawbacks I have found so far. The benefits far outway the drawbacks IMHO. The ride is unbelievable!!! I am glad I have it in my 05 Mach.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
machz123 said:
View attachment 46598 The M-10 takes away from weight transfer, and a little in the powder. If you are not going to drag all the time and want a smooth ride, go for the m-10.
Here is a picture of my 00' with the M-10 and FAST's BLT front end.
[snapback]700845[/snapback]​
How many miles do you have on your Mach now with the improvements? Is it all you hoped for?

Doug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
841 Posts
Soldier said:
machz123 said:
View attachment 46598 The M-10 takes away from weight transfer, and a little in the powder. If you are not going to drag all the time and want a smooth ride, go for the m-10.
Here is a picture of my 00' with the M-10 and FAST's BLT front end.
[snapback]700845[/snapback]​
How many miles do you have on your Mach now with the improvements? Is it all you hoped for?

Doug
[snapback]702889[/snapback]​
I have about 600 miles with everything done, and it is unbelievable the difference it has made. My buddy's all ride MXZ's or REV's and I can actually ride harder for longer periods of time on sh&%ty trails than they can. I love the BOSS seat!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
How many miles do you have on your Mach now with the improvements? Is it all you hoped for?

Doug
[snapback]702889[/snapback]​
[/quote]

I have about 600 miles with everything done, and it is unbelievable the difference it has made. My buddy's all ride MXZ's or REV's and I can actually ride harder for longer periods of time on sh&%ty trails than they can. I love the BOSS seat!!
[snapback]702920[/snapback]​
[/quote

Glad to hear it! I had a shock issue early in the season but after that it has been awesome! The RT also can run with the REV's after improving the suspension. The added weight is not felt as much anymore. I was unsure about sitting higher with the Boss seat, but the sled feels just as stable and I love the new sitting position. A 200+ mile day is a piece of cake! I love to go fast when possible (Lakes ..etc...) but to me, trail handling is more important.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,810 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Soldier said:
XcellR8 said:
machz123 said:
View attachment 46598 The M-10 takes away from weight transfer, and a little in the powder. If you are not going to drag all the time and want a smooth ride, go for the m-10.
Here is a picture of my 00' with the M-10 and FAST's BLT front end.
[snapback]700845[/snapback]​
How's the M10 for doubling (with a two up seat)? Did it bolt right in? Is it less resistant to bottoming than the SC10-?? Does the skid need to be removed to change sliders and/or to remove the shocks for rebuilding?
[snapback]702809[/snapback]​
The M-10 is fully adjustable and easily done. Sliders and shocks can be changed without skid removal. The springs can be ordered to accomodate your intended load and have significant adjustment range.

Transfer is not as good with the M-10 and top end is reduced about 5 mph. Those are the only drawbacks I have found so far. The benefits far outway the drawbacks IMHO. The ride is unbelievable!!! I am glad I have it in my 05 Mach.
[snapback]702881[/snapback]​
The fact that you can change the sliders and remove/re-install the shocks without pulling the skid is a big plus however I don't like the idea of loosing 5 mph off the top along with the loss of weight transfer. Can you still carry the skiis when you punch it or do they remain on the ground for the most part?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
841 Posts
They stay on the ground. Is 5 mph that big of a deal?? Not really, what kind of riding do you mostly due? That is what you have to look at, not if you can lift the skis off the ground or not.

I 98% trail ride, so comfort was 1st of what I wanted. I normally would have not even bought a Mach, but I got it for nothing, so to put the cash into it for me was worth it, plus I still have the capabilities of what the Mach can do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
The fact that you can change the sliders and remove/re-install the shocks without pulling the skid is a big plus however I don't like the idea of loosing 5 mph off the top along with the loss of weight transfer. Can you still carry the skiis when you punch it or do they remain on the ground for the most part?
[snapback]703075[/snapback]​
[/quote]

I echo Machz123's feedback. My seat time is spent on the trails. I am OK with not being the first one accross the lake. At 45 years of age...comfort becomes more and more important. I ride harder in the trails than most and can honestly say that, largley in part to the M-10, I feel great at the end of a high mileage ride.

Is there a way you could ride a sled that allready has an m-10 installed in it? I made the decesion solely based on what I read and heard prior to riding one.

I cut away 3/8" from the bottom of the coupling blocks which improved the transfer some and am also running 8" billets on the rear which may have given back some of the mph loss....even without.....NO REGRETS!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
841 Posts
Soldier said:
The fact that you can change the sliders and remove/re-install the shocks without pulling the skid is a big plus however I don't like the idea of loosing 5 mph off the top along with the loss of weight transfer. Can you still carry the skiis when you punch it or do they remain on the ground for the most part?
[snapback]703075[/snapback]​
I echo Machz123's feedback. My seat time is spent on the trails. I am OK with not being the first one accross the lake. At 45 years of age...comfort becomes more and more important. I ride harder in the trails than most and can honestly say that, largley in part to the M-10, I feel great at the end of a high mileage ride.

Is there a way you could ride a sled that allready has an m-10 installed in it? I made the decesion solely based on what I read and heard prior to riding one.

I cut away 3/8" from the bottom of the coupling blocks which improved the transfer some and am also running 8" billets on the rear which may have given back some of the mph loss....even without.....NO REGRETS!
[snapback]703463[/snapback]​
[/quote]

Exactly!!! Anyone who has run the UP trail from Munising to Grand Marais knows how beat that trail gets. I can literally run about 70mph or more on the straights in bad bumps IF there is no traffic and the sled doesnt skip a beat!!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,810 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
machz123 said:
They stay on the ground. Is 5 mph that big of a deal?? Not really, what kind of riding do you mostly due? That is what you have to look at, not if you can lift the skis off the ground or not.

I 98% trail ride, so comfort was 1st of what I wanted. I normally would have not even bought a Mach, but I got it for nothing, so to put the cash into it for me was worth it, plus I still have the capabilities of what the Mach can do.
[snapback]703374[/snapback]​
I ride a mixture of trails, ditches, lakes and rivers. Conditions are anywhere from hardpacked to fresh powder. Quite often we stop and have a few drag races while out ridining so weight transfer is kind of important to me plus I love when you crack it over a little bump and the skiis carry for a good distance. As far as the top end it's not really the loss of a few mph that I'm concerned about but more the tapering off of the acceleration that likley goes along with it. We normally run at pretty high speeds and I want the acceleration to remain strong up to at least 100 mph.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
841 Posts
If you cant run 100 with an M-10 something is wrong with your sled..

again it will be whats more important to you. You sound like you really want ski lift, if thats the case, stay away from the M-10, and buy an SC 10.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
489 Posts
XcellR8 said:
machz123 said:
They stay on the ground. Is 5 mph that big of a deal?? Not really, what kind of riding do you mostly due? That is what you have to look at, not if you can lift the skis off the ground or not.

I 98% trail ride, so comfort was 1st of what I wanted. I normally would have not even bought a Mach, but I got it for nothing, so to put the cash into it for me was worth it, plus I still have the capabilities of what the Mach can do.
[snapback]703374[/snapback]​
I ride a mixture of trails, ditches, lakes and rivers. Conditions are anywhere from hardpacked to fresh powder. Quite often we stop and have a few drag races while out ridining so weight transfer is kind of important to me plus I love when you crack it over a little bump and the skiis carry for a good distance. As far as the top end it's not really the loss of a few mph that I'm concerned about but more the tapering off of the acceleration that likley goes along with it. We normally run at pretty high speeds and I want the acceleration to remain strong up to at least 100 mph.
[snapback]704285[/snapback]​
The addition of the M-10 does not turn your sled into a snail!!!! You will still have all the previous accelleration, just may choose to add picks for hook-up and plan on a few less mph.

I echo your thoughts about running fast and the adrenelin rush and
that comes along with it (If speed was not part of the equasion for me I would be riding a REV 550f not the RT) All I can say is that after adding the M-10 and Ohlins shocks w/ dual rate springs to the skis....the SMILE FACTOR has increased while not taking away the fun that comes from squeezing the happy trigger.

Again I'll say.....try to ride a sled for an hour or so that has an M-10. They are not for everyone..... but are for me.

For what it's worth.

Doug
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,810 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
machz123 said:
If you cant run 100 with an M-10 something is wrong with your sled..

again it will be whats more important to you. You sound like you really want ski lift, if thats the case, stay away from the M-10, and buy an SC 10.
[snapback]704646[/snapback]​
It's not that I'm worried about being able to get up to 100 mph, I can't see that being a problem since the sled will do 120+ mph now. It's more a matter of how quickly it will get there that concerns me ...
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top