Any idea of what it weighs?

A buddy has the HD5 version wheeler - it seems to work pretty well.

As mentioned, the 5 and 7 are the same engine, 650cc, the numbers are just marketing - smart actually. And as always, the more you build the lower the cost per unit gets.

 

Any idea of what it weighs?

A buddy has the HD5 version wheeler - it seems to work pretty well.

As mentioned, the 5 and 7 are the same engine, 650cc, the numbers are just marketing - smart actually. And as always, the more you build the lower the cost per unit gets.

Not sure on the weight, but if the 600ACE is 60lbs I'm thinking this single is 40lbs or so.

 

I'm thinking the other way. Take a 900 ACE Turbo and put in the Defender.

 

Well, it's already in the Maverick so why not.

 

500 & 700 are 650cc

850 & 1000 are 1000cc

What advantages would a 650 single have over the current 600 twin besides weight?

My bud has a new outlander 700xt. It's quite impressive and dare I say better than a grizzly.
Definitely more grunt, top end, comfort and nicer storage than my other buds brand new Kodiak 700. I think it's better on fuel too.

 

500 & 700 are 650cc

850 & 1000 are 1000cc

What advantages would a 650 single have over the current 600 twin besides weight?

My bud has a new outlander 700xt. It's quite impressive and dare I say better than a grizzly.
Definitely more grunt, top end, comfort and nicer storage than my other buds brand new Kodiak 700. I think it's better on fuel too.

Weight and compactness are about the only advantages this engine would have over the 600ACE, maybe even better fuel mileage.

My thoughts were that it might have simple utility applications (think old school Tundra 300) or entry level, 3/4 size barebones sled applications.

 

I have 2001 Traxter 500 single cylinder. It gets around 24mpg in the quad and has been very reliable. Has a carb on it too for simplicity.

 

I'm a very happy owner of a 2023 Outlander XT-P Max 1000r. First ATV I've ever bought new, still have a pile of old Honda ATCs that I'll never get rid of.

Mine is the previous generation 1000r with 91 HP. The new 1000r is claimed to be 101 hp.

One thing I see that could pose a problem crossing the new generation Can Am ATV engines to a sled is the fact that their gearbox is integral with the engine crank case where the previous generation they are divorced. I could see the convenience of having an ATV transmission in a sled with hi, low, reverse and park, especially in a utility sled. But I'm not sure how that would all play for fitment in a sled chassis as they have been designed and built for decades now.

Interesting related note, I've thought of crossover between the sleds and ATVs before, but in the opposite direction. If thought how it would be if Can Am released and all new sport/race ATV with a solid rear axle, pretty much TRX250r geometry but maybe scaled up a bit and slammed an Etec into it. Call it the Can Am Rage or something along those lines. Can you imagine a full on sport quad powered by even a 600R? 🤘🏻

 

One thing I see that could pose a problem crossing the new generation Can Am ATV engines to a sled is the fact that their gearbox is integral with the engine crank case where the previous generation they are divorced. I could see the convenience of having an ATV transmission in a sled with hi, low, reverse and park, especially in a utility sled. But I'm not sure how that would all play for fitment in a sled chassis as they have been designed and built for decades now.

I think the gearbox could be completely removed with just some crankcase casting changes on the PTO end, but maybe there is room for innovation there. A snowmobile with a F-N-R-P gearbox could certainly work, it's the packaging of such an engine/powertrain in a snowmobile chassis that might the challenge.

 

^^^^^ I hear you. We had some Blasters and Warriors. My last one was a Suzuki 450 Quadracer. What a blast.

 

When 850/1000cc took over race quad in drags , thats where it ended.... I own an heavily modified ltz 400 myself.. with pretty much only the frame left with the zuki tag lol...Dont have time to ride anymore and have no buddy's left to ride with..... 2 years ago one of them scored a mint blaster....holy cow that was fun until i hop on the z haha....

 

I helped my daughter fix up an old '95 Blaster about a year ago. She takes small engine and outdoor recreation in highschool and she rebuilt the engine in class. It still needs dolled up a bit, but it's mechanically sound. Fun little braap. 👍🏼

Apologies for the digression from the initial topic .. maybe we should start an ATV thread somewhere.

 

I want to preface this reply with the fact that I am not an engine expert.
I was thinking about this topic recently. Sleds tend to rev higher than Atvs (have not had a belt driven Atv for a while, so I am not sure with the new ones)? The 600 ace twin is pretty smooth. Would the 650 single vibrate too much at higher rpm’s? The cost of using the same engine across product lines would be very beneficial to the manufacturer.
Another thought, would a 900 twin 4 stroke with a turbo be a lighter more improved engine than the triple 900 4 stroke? The 450cc motocross bikes are quite impressive. I think Yamaha has a twin 999 in their side by sides? Could this work in a snowmachine? The packaging of the engine should be slimmer than a triple.

 

I want to preface this reply with the fact that I am not an engine expert.
I was thinking about this topic recently. Sleds tend to rev higher than Atvs (have not had a belt driven Atv for a while, so I am not sure with the new ones)? The 600 ace twin is pretty smooth. Would the 650 single vibrate too much at higher rpm’s? The cost of using the same engine across product lines would be very beneficial to the manufacturer.
Another thought, would a 900 twin 4 stroke with a turbo be a lighter more improved engine than the triple 900 4 stroke? The 450cc motocross bikes are quite impressive. I think Yamaha has a twin 999 in their side by sides? Could this work in a snowmachine? The packaging of the engine should be slimmer than a triple.

OK, many things to unpack here, but all interesting topics

I brought up this topic because it has already been done. The V800 Rotax ATV engine saw use in utility and touring machines from 2007 to around 2015; yes, it rev'd a little lower, but was perfect for a utility role and the machines could still do 80-90km/h.

650 single, do you mean the new "700" or HD7 single in the Can-am ATV's or the old 650 V-twin that was used for years in Can-am ATV's? If you mean the single, they made it work in the ATV, so they could make it work in the snowmobile. If you mean the 650 V-twin, they already made three even bigger ones work, the V800, the V1000 and the V1330 in Europe.

The 900. I was expecting that BRP was going to build a 900ACE twin back in 2015 or so, adding to the success of the 600ACE twin. I was truly disappointed when they built a three cylinder because of the extra weight... but the devil was in the details. A twin 900 4-stroke would have required a counterbalancing shaft, negating any weight savings of twin vs. triple. The 900ACE three cylinder was much quieter and smoother, which we all learned to appreciate. It also started easier in the cold (unexpected) and things like clutches and mufflers lasted longer due to the higher frequency pulses of the engine. And the biggest detail of all is what BRP had up their sleeve; the 900ACE three-cylinder was intended to be the next "alpha platform" that BRP would use, like the 1503 in their watercraft, which would have all sorts of different levels of turbo/IC/etc. applied to it to give different HP numbers and power much of their lineup. A twin would not have that level of versatility.

The 999 Yamaha is a three cylinder as well. They built a 500cc twin 4-stroke in their 2007 Phazer that was based on two YZ250F engines. It was a sled that had so much potential, but as usual, Yamaha missed the mark in some key areas. The engine did not start well in the cold, at all, which instantly turned off a lot of potential users/buyers (I had two pass through my hands, would never touch another). Perhaps its biggest downfall is that Yamaha built a 3/4 sized sled, that maintained the weight of a full sized sled.... and you had to break it in half in order to do an oil and filter change. Ridiculous.

 

I would say that the different RPM ranges of different engines could fairly easily be tuned to its application with clutching and gearing.

 

The 900 ACE has to be considered one of the best/smartest/most versatile engines ever built.

From 60hp to 190hp, all from the same basic platform.

From snowmobiles to watercraft to on and off road wheeled vehicles.

It's nothing short of brilliant how well BRP has utilized that engine. It's truly a manufacturing marvel.

Can the new 650 single be the next big thing? I doubt it'll ever be close to what the 900 has been but it's already doing a decent job where it's being used.

 

My cousin just brought home a brand new '25 Outlander 700 XT yesterday. I'm definitely interested to check it out. Along with our '23 Outlander, we also have a 2007 Suzuki KQ700. Although it's probably not a fair comparison because Suzuki hasn't made any major changes to the KQ in a looong time, but I'm interested to see how my cousins new G3 Outlander compares to the KQ


The G3 has some really nice newly added creature comforts but I'm not ready to jump to the G3 yet. I really like our '23 G2. Been on vacation this week and just did another 90 mile ride on it yesterday. Started at our ATV club campground in Altmar NY and rode up to Tug Hill, had lunch at the Hook and Ladder, explored more of Winona State Forest ATV trails as we went back. All legal ATV trails and connecting roads. Every time we take the XT-P Max out for a long ride up here, the more I love it. Fantastic machine, super comfortable, excellent ride, and plenty of power with the 1000R. 👍🏼😁 Carries me and my Missus with ease.

 

I need to ride my '19 850 XT-P more. It's actually shameful how little it gets used.

 

If I'm not mistaken, you live on/near Tug don't you? Would be cool to get together for a little off-season Dootalk ride 🙂

 

A few of us old guys actually bought Lewis County permits this year with the intention of riding more - so far that hasn't worked out.

Wifey and I have also discussed taking the camper to Kasog Lake and riding the trails out of there - that hasn't happened yet either.

In my case we bought a house that I guess we're going to flip. I've been working non-stop on that trying to get it finished up. It's been a long road but hopefully I'll get it finished up next week and get it on the market. Then I can get back to being a retired guy!

On a side note, the day we sell the house we are taking some of the $$$ and adding a new Defender Limited, or maybe a Lone Star. 👍

 

Sounds like you definitely have a good share on your plate.

In any even, talking if riding down toward Kasoag, they are starting a second ATV club in Oswego County, they are selling trail passes, have insurance, but don't have any new trails opened up yet. If you want to ride that area you would need a membership with the original Oswego County ATV Club, which I am a member of and have a seasonal campsite in their club campground. Id be glad to show you around the club trails sometime if we ever happen to be in the area at the same time. Just got back from a ride fro Altmar up to Tug for lunch and back again with some of my family. Was a great day 🙂

 

Sounds like you definitely have a good share on your plate.

In any even, talking if riding down toward Kasoag, they are starting a second ATV club in Oswego County, they are selling trail passes, have insurance, but don't have any new trails opened up yet. If you want to ride that area you would need a membership with the original Oswego County ATV Club, which I am a member of and have a seasonal campsite in their club campground. Id be glad to show you around the club trails sometime if we ever happen to be in the area at the same time. Just got back from a ride fro Altmar up to Tug for lunch and back again with some of my family. Was a great day 🙂

When things wind down I will definitely be in touch.