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On Thin Ice with Steve
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Another side of the "saving the planet through electricity"...

Still don't think it's all a scam?

What they leave out on the lifespan of the panel lasting 20 or so years is that the panel loses 5% of its capacity every year. So near the end it’s not producing anything. The town I grew up in had some snake oil man put a solar field on the old landfill. He would own it for 6 years selling the power to the town. At the end of 6 years the town would buy it and then own it. I ran the math they laid out in the news paper article. It would not even pay for itself in saving in the life span never mind that the guy that built it would make all the money in the most productive years of it being in service.


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successful undertaking for that guy...
Agreed, but more of a successful scam, like all of this crap.

If you remove the gubment money none of it makes any sense, ever, but yeah, the guy gamed the system so good for him. 👍
 

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he might have been 100% in and believed in the tech.
Yeah, sure... we'll go with that! 🤣🤣🤣

He probably towed his trailer to the work site with his Ford Lightning too!

I'll give you credit, Pollyanna doesn't have a thing on you. 👍
 

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Prospect
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Yeah, sure... we'll go with that! 🤣🤣🤣

He probably towed his trailer to the work site with his Ford Lightning too!

I'll give you credit, Pollyanna doesn't have a thing on you. 👍
Definition of Pollyanna

: a person characterized by irrepressible optimism and a tendency to find good in everything

not quite sure why you judge me "Pollyanna" I'm not an optimist by any stretch of ones imagination
 

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ya know if you keep saying this I'm going to start believing it... your comments and writing don't give this impression
Having above average computing power to process things without an overall balance is problematic and may turn a higher intellect into a deficiency. The Olympic sport is a perfect example of needing a multi-facet strength to win a medal. Being stronger and faster is not good enough for a win.
 

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Definition of Pollyanna

: a person characterized by irrepressible optimism and a tendency to find good in everything

not quite sure why you judge me "Pollyanna" I'm not an optimist by any stretch of ones imagination
I just appreciate you giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. 👍

Being in an area full of windmills and solar farms, I'm pretty skeptical. None of them ever keep the same owners. They all have the same MO; sell it as saving the planet, build it with huge subsidies, run it for a few years to keep the free money, then sell it to the next guy getting more subsidies. They all just take the money and run.

I was in industrial sales for 30 years, I saw that pattern repeat itself on virtually every "green energy" project.

They're a scam.
 

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Prospect
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I just appreciate you giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. 👍

Being in an area full of windmills and solar farms, I'm pretty skeptical. None of them ever keep the same owners. They all have the same MO; sell it as saving the planet, build it with huge subsidies, run it for a few years to keep the free money, then sell it to the next guy getting more subsidies. They all just take the money and run.

I was in industrial sales for 30 years, I saw that pattern repeat itself on virtually every "green energy" project.

They're a scam.
Most of us are opportunistic feeders, with an irresistible self-interest. It is one of the weaknesses of our current free market system.... lots of scammers and people who can be scammed so to speak. It is also a current business model to build up a business and sell for profit regardless of future viability (get out while the getting is good)
 

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Most of us are opportunistic feeders, with an irresistible self-interest. It is one of the weaknesses of our current free market system.... lots of scammers and people who can be scammed so to speak. It is also a current business model to build up a business and sell for profit regardless of future viability (get out while the getting is good)
Without derailing this topic more than it already is, all I can say is if private business ran like a government project there wouldn't be a business left. The inefficiency and corruption that goes on with virtually every larger project is sickening.
It's so bad, back when I was working, I basically stopped doing business on government projects. If you'd like more info please feel free to PM me.

Now back to your regularly scheduled EV tow test thread.
 

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Most of us are opportunistic feeders, with an irresistible self-interest. It is one of the weaknesses of our current free market system.... lots of scammers and people who can be scammed so to speak. It is also a current business model to build up a business and sell for profit regardless of future viability (get out while the getting is good)
The first sentence that I bolded is a perspective that I firmly share. I reached the second sentence and agreed with it. When I reached the third, then I had a whole bunch of question marks. I don't mean to put your thoughts into question, but rather build on them. FYI, if I am not liking, then I typically avoid replying, so I am liking this. My response is, that while the business model does support sell for profit, there is imo an a larger portion of business people who sustain their business with a fundamental and formidable beliefs. This is my way of agreeing that there are an infinite number of dick heads, but they are nowhere near 50%.

The world is laced with bad apples. If we only focused on them, then it would drive us bananas. In my opinion this is true today as much as it was hundreds and thousands of years ago. I understand Pollyanna, but at what point does it help to make a case for the population to grow while a the largest portion already has the willingness to grown beyond their boundary? In other words, if three quarter of the population has realized their mistake for the past 20 years, how should they be expected to react and make decisions?

We are two decades too late to make any significant change for the following two decades. If this problem was tackled in the early 2000s, then we would have been much further ahead. But we did not, due to our irresistible self-interest. Now that we are in 2022 without significant change, folks across the planet are scrambling. To make matters worse, there are now arguments that those efforts are misguided. I think this adding fuel to the fire that is already raging. I have noted that we do these things (adding fuel) to situations that we either <feel> are too far too late, or that we <feel> are misguided.

What I am trying to say is these arguments held more value two decades ago when there was adequate time to turn things around. One of the reasons for the pushbacks that we see today that did not happen as much then, is the increase push for pseudo science. Challenging science is formidable. Pseudo science is on a whole other level. As an example, the difference in the way you and I see things does challenge me. Pseudo-science does not.
 

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Prospect
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Daag44, I think we are derailing this EV conversation by digging into deeper theoretical and philosophical reasons for even needing Electric Vehicles. I think that most of what is happening today can be explained by studying evolutionary psychology and trying to understand the selfish nature of our genetic drives. survival of the individual is the first directive and propagation of our species is the second. I firmly believe these are the drivers of our current dilemma and they are not changing.
 

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life is short, live long
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survival of the individual is the first directive and propagation of our species is the second.
So that's why I feel like giant corporations are screwing me🤔🤔🤔
 

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Daag44, I think we are derailing this EV conversation by digging into deeper theoretical and philosophical reasons for even needing Electric Vehicles. I think that most of what is happening today can be explained by studying evolutionary psychology and trying to understand the selfish nature of our genetic drives. survival of the individual is the first directive and propagation of our species is the second. I firmly believe these are the drivers of our current dilemma and they are not changing.
Considering the amount of time and effort spent on how 'we' are being fooled by EVs, this is the psychological and philosophical parts that are taking the greatest part in the EV threads. Take the word 'fact' as an example. We can no longer use that word to build a solid argument since its value has been greatly diminished by erroneous facts or misguided facts, or whatever. I am not knocking anyone for this. I am merely pointing out the loss in value of this word with every year.

So if we cannot even rely on facts, what remains is how we feel about things and what drives our feelings.
 

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Daag, you are right. Trust your gut and use your experience, knowledge etc. to form your own beliefs and views. Even the news people have admitted that the level of trust in them has gone way down. Can’t believe the news, can’t believe the internet as you can fish for about any view you want to find. Use your head and do whats right for you and yours.

Have a customer just contacted me about his Ryobi electric mower, bought new this season, replaced on warranty in June, now the replacement has failed. They seem like a not easily serviced and somewhat disposable machine. I had thought after seeing so many dirty carburetors, that an electric mower would be great. Now, not as certain, they stop working and everyone is scratching their heads and lost compared to ICE.
 

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Prospect
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So if we cannot even rely on facts, what remains is how we feel about things and what drives our feelings.
I believe one has to step back, passion clouds ones vision. become self aware, question what drives our feelings. We are always being played by special interests. I guess the question for us as individuals is do you want to play, does the special interest meet your needs, want or desires. Do you want to drive an EV
 
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