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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Folks: I am well into the re-build on an abused 2014 Skandic WT 600 Ace. The Odo says 8,300 miles but seriously doubting that value. The abuse was complete. One of the brake pistons was worn away at an angle where it should have been contacting the shoe. One of the caliper attachment bolts had backed out and the head was rubbed off by the rotor. Another was missing, a third was broken in half, one holding it on. The grease in the suspension pivots looked like it was made by Wriggly, and some boggy wheel bearings showing "daylight". But back to the clutch question.

There were bits of belt wedged in the brake pads, under the brake pad retention spring, and between one of the pads and the rotor. All brake parts have been replaced - but now focusing on why the belt had blown. Thinking it might have been caused by clutch issues. Lots of other possibilities, like the brake rotor might have locked, or just the accumulated toll on the belt of being used to power up a ski hill over and over.

When I rev'ed the engine in N, the primary seemed to articulate just fine. The 100 mile shake down cruse did not indicate any clutch issue. There is a moderate groove near the base of the drive on the stationary side. The articulating side is smooth, no lines at all.

So. Here are the first group of questions. How bullet proof are these clutches. Is it reasonable to think that, given the overall level of abuse that a Primary Clutch Rebuild is called for. Or are these clutches like the 600 Ace, rock solid. And if "Yes" to the "Rebuild It!" question, any suggestions for a Youtube How-To for this clutch. I found a lot for the three legged clutches, but none for this 6 legged clutch. Would also really appreciate a link to a "Re-build Kit" for this clutch, that would be good quality at a reasonable price.

The second question is, should I also replace the stationary portion of the clutch +~$100 - because of the groove in the face. Polish it out? or are there "Re-surfacing" services? Or is this just part of what a well used clutch looks like and not worry about it?.

Thanks for all the help!!! You guys are making my journey into sledding a ton of fun. or more like 600 pounds of fun. :- )

Jack
 

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How bad is the groove in the stationary sheave? Can you grab it with a finger nail? Does the clutch make noise? Is it wearing the belt abnormally now that you've got it back up and running? Can you smell the belt at all while riding it in different phases of running? I'd say that at 8300 miles it's worth looking over and checking the serviceable stuff for wear. Sounds like this machine was used pretty hard.

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First of all it's rare to have a 600 ace blow a belt, these clutchs is fairly solid but need regular maintenance, putting aside you got this used i presume? the clutches need to be taken off and inspect/cleaned at least once a year, this will save you tons of money in the long haul, follow the same procedure as the 3 ramp for taking it apart, it close to the same apart for a few littl things, in fact this E-drive is easier to work at, before ordering parts check inside for what you need, it's possible the outer half ramp settings may be wore also, be cheaper then to buy a complete clutch than repair, also if the primary was neglected then more than likely the secondary was also, worn sliding half bushing, flattened secondary rollers and worn roller bolts.....this could be more the cause of the belt breaking than the primary?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
StepNotGrooveOnOutsidePrimary.jpg

Thank you for the input.

The mark on the inner part of the clutch came out with some Super Fine Scotch Bright. But the mark on the outside of the primary is actually a step. And yes, it more than hooks a finger nail. The surface on the smaller diameter portion, below the step, is smooth, slightly wavy, and worn away. The in the larger diameter portion, above the step is almost new looking.

I've tried to take a picture, a blow up of the step. Sort of shows it.

I found a Youtube How To for primary for what looks like this vintage of primary clutch.

Bob showed how to polish out a mark with Scotch Bite Pads. Can I use a progression of pads to round out the step, make the transition as smooth as possible? Or is a 0.3 mm step a reason to replace?


There were some other Youtube's that showed how to remove the primary and take things apart without any special tools, like the water trick with a strap. :- ) Since the expenses are starting to get painful, think I'll try those methods first.

Thank you for the advice on the Secondary possibly being the cause of the issue.

I looked at different Youtubes and didn't find any with a geared transmission. They all had a nice, easy to access window in the chain case to knock out the transfer drive shaft, with the Secondary attached.

Can I service the Secondary without taking the Transfer Drive Shaft out? Or is there a way to remove the drive shaft without taking the gear box off? Seems to take the cover off the gear box, you start by removing the four bolts at the tunnel. Then pull the gear box from the sled. Is that the sequence to remove the Secondary?

Thanks again for the support!!

Jack
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
How bad is the groove in the stationary sheave? Can you grab it with a finger nail? Does the clutch make noise? Is it wearing the belt abnormally now that you've got it back up and running? Can you smell the belt at all while riding it in different phases of running? I'd say that at 8300 miles it's worth looking over and checking the serviceable stuff for wear. Sounds like this machine was used pretty hard.

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The mark on the engine side came off with some rubbing. The mark on the outside is a step with the area below worn away. The step is roughly 0.3 mm high. And it is a step. The belt was new when I got it. When I took the sled for an initial 100 mile shake down cruse (trail riding with some fresh powder), there was nothing abnormal about how the clutch or belt worked. No special noise. No hesitation. No belt smell. I rev'ed it, parked, with the side guard and belt cover off and the belt seemed to move up and down the clutch without issue.

Some back ground. I purchased this sled in January, suspecting I would be shut in and wanted a project. I knew it was very badly abused when I got it and the price reflected it.

(The way they shortened the back light to be even with the bumper with a saws-all was the first clue, bare wires hanging out. The duct tape and sheet metal screws holding on the front panels was the second. The front bumper was bent and the right ski was set back - from being rolled down the ski hill, where it was used as a "utility sled". So no big shock as I am finding other significant stuff.)

Appreciate the support.

Jack
 

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I'd say run it like it is buddy. No sense on throwing needless cash at it if it's working well the way it is.

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But the mark on the outside of the primary is actually a step. And yes, it more than hooks a finger nail. The surface on the smaller diameter portion, below the step, is smooth, slightly wavy, and worn away.
That part can be changed $85.99cad, pn 417223615, it's a separate part in the sliding half, the groove you feel is normal, to take of the secondary it's just 1 bolt in the middle of the sheave
 

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Anybody try the modification he talks about in his other video on you tube?

spring change, grinding ramps, different belt...

For a 900 ace SWT
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
BudgetCompressionTool.jpg MoreCompressionTool.jpg

First of all it's rare to have a 600 ace blow a belt, these clutchs is fairly solid but need regular maintenance, putting aside you got this used i presume? the clutches need to be taken off and inspect/cleaned at least once a year, this will save you tons of money in the long haul, follow the same procedure as the 3 ramp for taking it apart, it close to the same apart for a few littl things, in fact this E-drive is easier to work at, before ordering parts check inside for what you need, it's possible the outer half ramp settings may be wore also, be cheaper then to buy a complete clutch than repair, also if the primary was neglected then more than likely the secondary was also, worn sliding half bushing, flattened secondary rollers and worn roller bolts.....this could be more the cause of the belt breaking than the primary?
SUV1. You obviously have lots of experience or you have a future as a Snowmobile medium. Your comment about secondary being the probable cause, flattened secondary rollers.... were 100 correct.

I started by taking your advice of removing the secondary with the wack of a sledge on the secondary retention bolt. Came loose on the first wack. The secondary slid off with some heavy wiggling. No need at all to pull the transmission. Whew.

The first clue came when I noticed that two of the back retention bolts were loose...

I made a compression tool with a couple of carriage bolts, spliced with a nut and some Loctite. Used a plumbing part and a Simsons Strong Tie part with some washers. Worked super well. Pictures to follow.

To fast forward, the internals were a mess. Two legs of the center section were broken clean off. One roller was very flat and the other was split and cracked. Both looked like an overly enjoyed dog chew toy.

Thank you!!! From all of us!!! For the time you take and the accuracy of your input..

I'll post what I find on the primary after I finish contemplating what might have happened if I had not dug in to the secondary clutch.

Jack
 

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I wouldn't say the clutches were abused...neglected yes
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Folks: Question first. The sliding bushing / bearing in the Sliding Flange Assembly was worn out!. Tried to order just the bushing / bearing and had to order the whole Sliding Flange Assembly. Past versions / years had the bushing / bearing at around $20, now only available from Ski-Doo as a bushing / bearing and slider flange assembly for $92. Ouch. I read that changing the bearing in the older versions is a pain, which is a potential reason Ski Doo now only offers the assembly. I get the impression that aftermarket bushing / bearings are out there? Do some of the older bushing / bearings may fit?

What is the advice. Bite the bullet, pay $70 USD more and get the sliding flange assembly and don't mess with the bushing / bearing. Or remove the bushing / bearing and try to find an aftermarket one that fits? And any advice on which bushing / bearing to get - and where to get the aftermarket bushing / bearing for the sliding flange?.

I ordered the two Rollers, the Bolts / Shafts, washers, and the Slider Flange Assembly but the order has not been picked. I need to call and add the Cam Assembly, Part Number 417127413, with an official price of ~$110 and a "discount" price of around $100. With the Sliding Flange Assembly instead of just the bushing, the total is going to be around $260 USD to bring the Secondary back to life.

The numbers are for the 2014 Skandic WT 600 ACE variant. - Be sure to double check before using my part number list - even for this same vintage of sled. While my Dyslexia is entertaining to some, others find it frustrating and costly at times. :0

PartsListWithOutCamAssy.JPG
 

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Not necessary to put back the spring pins, they are a real hassle, just use a bit of loctite on the bolts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Folks: For the Primary - I ordered the new flange, and the cam, and the rollers, shafts and washers. It'll be a week or so.

In the mean time, I waded into the Primary. Used the Hot Water method to get it out. Came out with a 'Bang'. Very easy.

StrapAndWaterMethod.jpg BoltAfterPoppingOffSecondary.jpg

A quick look inside before trying to take it apart - major flats on all the rollers. The un-flat portions looked pitted. The arms look intact, some polish and pitting but nothing scary.

ShinyFlatOnRoller.jpg SlightlyPittedCamArm.jpg

Then I tried to separate the two halves of the Primary. Put the bolt in a good 6 turns. Held it off the table like the Youtube instructions and whacked it with a hammer. And whacked harder. And harder yet. Went from a small hammer to a Big hammer, then a short handled sledge. Beat on it till the end of the bolt end was rounded and bent. Turned it over and pounded the bolt on a hunk of rail road rail till it all seemed so pointless. Double checked the Youtube videos and, yes, I'm hitting in the correct direction, holding it correctly.

BentBoltAfterTryingToSeperate.jpg

Is there a trick? I have three cans of yellow MAP gas..... Or is it time to find a replacement? Leaning toward the replacement option.

:)

Jack
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Folks: I tried again to separate the two parts. I tried heating the assembly, and hitting on it when it was hot. I also made two short pipes with connecting threaded rods, to wedge between the pulleys. Tried tightening the pipes when it was hot, and beating on the bolt all at the same time. Nope. Hit on it until the threads of the bolt sheared off.

I ended up cutting the flange out of the top, compressing the sliding half, and cutting off the post all with a cut off wheel.

This let me salvage the arms and the spring. The rollers were in really bad shape, but the arms looked great after some clean up.

So, here is the question. I was able to buy a Never Used Primary Clutch on Ebay. $250 all in. The write up said "Ski Doo Primary Clutch for 600/900 ace and some 1200tec 2008-14 may fit others"

But It looks like the clutch is actually a 2017 or 2018 clutch. A different vintage. (sound of muffled scream)

Will this newer vintage fit the 2014 Skandic? From what I read, its a much better clutch. So, hope so.

The later vintage clutches call for the same arms that match what I took out of the old primary.

And I have no problem buying a new spring to match what is listed as a 2016 Scandic 600 Ace or later spring.

I would even be ok with the new clutch running with slightly lower RPM's and giving up a little top end power.

eBayClutchButWillItFit2014Skandic600Ace.jpg

Thank you for the help!!

Jack
 

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