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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just finished rebuilding the engine tonight, last year I burnt a piston and scored a cylinder, i pulled the engine, the bottom end was still good as we just rebuilt it, new crank and all 4,000 miles ago. The sled itself has 10,500 miles on it. Anyway i put a new monoblock on it and new pistons and rings and put it back together tonight. It ran great for an hour or so around my fields and what not so which really only amounted to about 20 miles. I shut it off, got my gear on and decided to hit the lake and head up to my parents house about 15 miles by trail. Made it halfway to my parents house when it just started dying down till it stalled. No check engine light or anything. Last year it had a problem with the 30 amp fuse down by the battery so i thought maybe that was the issue, it was fine. pulled the plugs and they looked okay. put them back in, hit the starter and it fired up and ran fine. Made it the rest of the way to my parents house and went around the fields a few times and as i was slowing down it just bogged down and died. This time it burped before it died, and the check engine light started flashing. Pulled a plug, grounded it out on the head and it has no spark. Put a new spark plug in and still no spark. I guess my main question is, will a bad stator cause the check engine light to flash? I do believe the stator is bad as its never been changed in 10,000 miles but is there anything else i can check? How is it possible for the computer to detect a bad stator? All other sensors are plugged in, and the wires going to the sensors are good. Thanks in advance for any and all advice and suggestions!
 

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I think it just lost power to the Run Relay. The stator is likely fine. I had the same problem, but with the oem 30A fuse socket. I went through two aftermarket ones before returning to oem. Each time it would quit out of the blue. Sometimes it would start right away, other times I had to wait. And then came a fourth time which was the Red/White wire that was partially broken. Then a fifth with a Coil Wine from the Run Relay. That one took some head scratching. In the end I replaced the broken wire and properly scrimped new terminals I got at the dealer and set it back to 100% oem, but with dielectric grease. There were some hard lessons along the way among many others that had me return to the oem setup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the reply! It did burn up the fuse last year. I did check the fuse again while i was checking the sled over and found it had no spark. I flipped the fuse upside down and reinserted it and it didnt seem to make a difference. Although that doesnt mean the holder that its going into is good. i'll check for power going in and out of it in the morning. The fuel pump is cycling when i hit the start button though, would the fuel pumps still cycle if the run relay wasn't getting power? I cant remember if the check engine light was flashing last year when the fuse blew. In the morning if it doesnt start and run, which i think it will, i'll pull the run relay and test power.
 

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You are right, the fuel pumps won't prime if there is no power through the 30A fuse and Run Relay, but with enough draw on the fuse it can cut-out. The ignition coils consumer a lot of current. Take a close look at the terminals for fuse socket.

The thread below is specifically for the 30A fuse socket and how to unlock/remove the terminals from the socket so that you inspect and clean them. There 19 posts dedicated to working this part of the sled that includes videos for cleaning, crimping and proper solder technique. Post #2 is my own crimper and the 30A socket I spoke about.

Pick whatever temporary measure is needed to go riding. Heck I have no trouble twisting wires, and in a bind I would delete it trailside if it meant not walking home. So I will support whatever you choose. But I strongly suggest getting a volt gauge installed as soon as you can. The SDI will eat you alive when things start going wrong. It's actually no different than any other sled, but its reputation instills fear like no other sled.

How remove wire from SDI capacitor 30A fuse holder?
Started By aDOOrondack, Sep 25 2017 07:43 PM
 

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Assuming it is not the 30A, then that leaves the ignition coil wires/plugs and engine ground. The kill switch is usually a problem to shut the engine, but to take it out of the circuit, simply unplug the RH connected at the center of the handlebar, and use the DESS key to kill the engine. The ignition coils are not a typical problem, so that leaves a bad wire/cap and ground. Other than that it will be testing the input voltage to the coil Violet/Grey wire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well thank you very much for the information, i really do appreciate it. I'll go through and test the 30 amp fuse holder first. If that the doesn't cure it i'll unplug the kill switch and try that. I suppose a ground could be an issue but i tried to make sure the ones that i came acrossed were tight. Is there a print out of all the locations of the grounds? And one last question lol, where would this violet/grey wire be? going into the coil itself? and what should the input voltage be on the wire that i'm looking for? battery voltage or a lower voltage? Thank you for everything.
 

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The first thing is to check if both plugs are not firing or only one.

#1 The SDI uses a dual ignition coil like the E-TEC, so you need to check spark on both plugs.

#2 The ignition coil pack is robust.

#3 There is no known power connection issue with the Ignition Coil that I am aware of.

#4 If there is spark on one plug and not the other, then it is likely a connection issue, hopefully with a corroded/rotted plug wire or boot. Another possibility is arc'ing which is visible in the dark. The two other possibilities are an open in the ignition coil or an unseated wire at the ECM A plug. A problem with the last two will eventually cause the ignition coil driver in the ECM to fail. Any of the problems listed in #4 can be rooted out by swapping the coils at the connector. Sine there are two drivers in the ECM, and two ignition coils, one switch of the igntion coil wires will determine what component has failed, the driver or ignition coil.

#5 If there is no spark on both plugs, the CPS or wires to/from the CPS is likely at fault. Disconnect the CPS plug and test for 190-300 ohm at rest, and 1-2 Vac while cranking over the engine with the pull cord. If both results are good, then plug the CPS, disconnect the ECM A plug and repeat the two tests. Also make sure there is no sign of the two ECM A terminals being unseated. It will be pin #5 Yellow/White wire, and pin# 19 Blue/Yellow.

If the resistance test passes, but the voltage test fails, then there is something obstructing the CPS sensor. Remove the Magneto Flywheel for a visual inspection. Broken flywheel magnets are a real possibility, and it has happened that a piece of shattered earth magnet was caught on the CPS and no longer provided voltage.

In another case I troubleshooted with good resistance, the voltage and spark were sporadic/intermittent. The magneto flywheel was removed with no visible problem, leaving the crankshaft runout as the only possible cause. It is easy to diagnose by turning the engine over and looking at the distance between the CPS and triggers. Spec is ~ 0.028" +/- which is not in any SDI or E-TEC shop manual. Spec is found by measuring different sleds and looking into older shop manuals. Note that I did not provide a specific +/- . This is because it is not that important. Closer is no problem as long a it does not touch the triggers. Farther is ok as long as the sensor still reads the

#6 This diagnostic list works for the 600/800/1000 SDI as they all work the same. The 600 has an inherent issue with the CPS due to the location of the plug. The 1000 has a slightly different harness configuration for the CPS plug and seem less prone to failure, but it is a possibility to keep in mind.

#7 The 30A fuse socket I covered in one of my previous replies. The last time before I applied a permanent fix, it generated a Relay Coil Wine. Getting that kind of resonance is rare and probably be difficult to reproduce. I have only seen it one other time, years later on DooTalk and knew right away by the owner's description of a buzzing sound (click here for the case). Twice in 9 years with the first one being my own, so I doubt anyone will hear about this again for some time. However, this type of problem, even if it does not cause a coil wine, affects the relays which in turn creates radicals/surges in the ECM and other components. If a relay keeps burning, the voltage at the relay coil needs to be measured/monitored to find what is causing the power issue.

Also use a sealed relay for a permanent repair. Click here for a thread on where to acquire quality oem relays.

For Relay Troubleshooting, click here. This was for a 2011 800R E-TEC which had only one relay before BRP integrated the Battery Charging Relay into the ECM. BRP did this to eliminate failure points. BRP even deleted the fuse box with the fist MY2009 of the E-TEC, only to return with a sealed fuse box with the first G4 850 for MY2017. it is not something we need to change, buy rather to keep in mind. For example using dielectric grease for connections and applying a sealant for the splices will accomplish the same goal.
 

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I see that you posted before my latest update. In hindsight I do not believe that you will need to focus on the Violet/Grey wire, but if you do it is the positive wire from the F9 fuse that feeds both fuel pumps and ignition coils. It is not a known issue and I do not even remember of one.

My previous reply is about everything I have on diagnosing the ignition coils with known/common issues. It is the same that I use for the E-TEC and for the most part with the carbs and vintage. I figure that anything else you need will be details on testing and how to confirm which component is at fault. It also does not serve to replace a shop manual, but rather as an appendix/guide of sorts. Let me know if you need anything else.
 

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In lieu of the encyclopedia written above, check the following:

Check the plug for the CPS between the mag cylinder and the coolant bottle. Check its wire for kinks, bends or pressure points.

Flip the fuse box over (it easily unclips) and carefully inspect all the wires and pins for corrosion or corroded off wires. (A very common issue).

An engine light comes from:

Engine sensors (TPS, CTS, ATS, Knock sensor, Air pressure sensor(in the side panel, EGTS, CPS
Fuel injector electrical connectivity
E-Rave function

I'd suspect the CPS due to the lack of spark. Since you didn't split the base then you had no reason to disturb the flywheel area or the CPS itself. Is the CPS wire pinched under the right rear engine mount?

Check that the TPS is actually plugged in all the way. That connection can be tricky at times to unclip or clip back into place.

Where are you located?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Again, thank you for the plethora of knowledge and help. I got it up on the sled rack right now, pulled both plugs and it ended up having spark on both plugs. So spark has returned. I put the plugs back in and wires back on and the check engine light was still flashing and it still would not start. With that information i went ahead and just started checking connections. First thing i did was check the 30 AMP fuse we've been talking about, hit the button to power the system up and i did get an almost high pitch buzz noise from the fuse box. I'm assuming this is the noise you were talking about in your previous messages that you've only seen twice. I checked power at the fuse and on the back side of the holder going in and out and it was a good 12.8 volts. I let the system shut down and hit the button to replicate the noise but to no avail. tried to start it again, no go. So i pulled the muffler off to start checking the connections at the base of the engine and also see if i had pinched any wiring near the engine mount. The wiring seemed all plugged in and is tight but not pinched, in my opinion anyway where it all runs up near the coolant resevoir and the engine mount. For ****s and giggles i hit the start button and the thing fired right up and is running like a raped ape. I am contributing that to the fact that the Exhaust Sensor is unplugged. Years ago we had it not start and took it to the dealer and that was the cause of it not starting as well and they had to replace it. Is it safe to ride it with the exhaust sensor unplugged? I'd like to ride it around the fields for a while to see if any other issues occur or act up you know? I dont see how that would cause it not to have spark and i'd like to ride it till the spark issue arises again so i can solve that too. Or can the Exhaust temp sensor cause a no spark condition? Im going to put the exhaust back on and leave it unplugged and tuck the harness out of the way for now and let it run for now. Again, thanks for all your help. And i'm located near Watertown, New York. I see your located in upstate new york. Whereabouts are you from?
 

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I should work with or without the muffler temp sensor plugged in. I think that you made a better connection when moving the wires around. Check to see if the connectors at the VR are well seated, then remove each plug for visual. Then check the voltage at the F11 fuse and then the Run Relay Red/White wire. You getting close.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Okay, will do. At this point and with your advice, i will undo, inspect and replug in all the connectors i can reach. The three at the bottom of the engine, the cps connector, and then from there i will check voltage readings at the F11 fuse and this red/white wire at the Run Relay your talking about, you mean the wire coming into the fuse block on the back side that goes into it. What voltage should i be seeing there?
 

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The EGT is your check engine light.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

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The high pitched noise from the fuse box is probably a relay. Swap the relays around and see what happens.

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
As far as the EGT Sensor goes, is oem still the best way to go? only reason i ask is because we have a close friend with an 850R i think it is, that was having egt sensor issues and he found a 30 dollar egt sensor through napa worked and got the job done for him. If thats a dumb idea i'll just order a new OEM one through ski-doo. I'm going to go check all the connections right now and voltages and will report back in an hour or so. Thank you guys!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
There are only two different size relays in my fuse box, the manual start relay or whatever it is isnt there, and didnt come with that one. I'll have to go over to work and grab two new relays to swap out tomorrow as we're getting a good amount of snow right now.
 

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A faulty EGT sensor will not affect the engine starting. But it will cause the ECU to throw a check engine light. The EGT can be disabled. But you need BUDS to do it. Or..... Create a "dummy load" with several resistors and plug it into the harness where the EGT plugs in.

I'd recommend getting a new EGT.

You have a bad connection or a faulty relay somewhere.

These intermittent problems are the hardest to troubleshoot. Your doing the right things by checking each connection one by one.

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Okay, will do. At this point and with your advice, i will undo, inspect and replug in all the connectors i can reach. The three at the bottom of the engine, the cps connector, and then from there i will check voltage readings at the F11 fuse and this red/white wire at the Run Relay your talking about, you mean the wire coming into the fuse block on the back side that goes into it. What voltage should i be seeing there?
You got it. Expect to see the same voltage at the battery on the Red/White, and a few tenths lower on F11. This is with the engine shut off.

With the engine idling, either measure both sides of the Run Relay on the Red/White and Red/Green, or compare what it shows at the battery with Fuse F9. You can test any of the fuses that the Run Relay feeds. I chose F9 because it feeds the pumps and ignition coils.

These are quick measurements to ensure everything is getting good power to run the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I took apart each and every connector, checking pins, signs of a burnt pin or one that is being pushed out of its sleeve when a connection is made. I did not find anything wrong with any connectors or pins. I undid every one, made sure each wire could easily slide back and forth along its routing to make sure nothing was pinched, put dieelectric grease in each connector and made sure when i redid the connection each one clicked loudly and felt snug when the connection was made. Pulled the fuse box, and tested voltage at the red/white wire going to the run relay, it had 12.8 volts going to it, also tested power on fuse 11 and that had good 12.8 volts going to it as well. I Will note that atleast 7 times while going through this testing i have heard the run relay make an awful buzz noise, it sounds like of like a cheap alarm clock from the 80's used to so i went over to work and grabbed new relays and changed them both out and added one to the empty run slot for the pull start only option. i figured it'd attleast be good to have a spare just in case. After that, i put the sled back together, tucked the EGT sensor harness out of the way and rode it around the fields for a half hour. It ran great, we just got a foot of light snow, the type of snow thats doing nothing but coming over the hood, blocking off the headlights and covering your shield. So more testing to be done tomorrow. What kind of symptoms or issues can i expect from the sled with that EGT Sensor unplugged? I will note feathering the throttle going through the snow every now and then it did have a slight slight bog to it, but cleaned right up when i asked for more and opened it up, and i contributed that to the sensor being unplugged and it not knowing exactly what the air/fuel ratio is. Other then that it ran great. But tomorrow i will start it up and finish up the testing suggested, with it running i'll retest the red/white wire and the red/green wire and i'll test all the fuses as well to make sure the engine is getting what its supposed as suggested. One last question, which side of the 30 AMP fuse down next to the battery feeds the red/white wire to the run relay? i'd like to test resistance on the feed wire after it gets hot to see if its losing continuity. Just trying to check everything i can. At this point I think the Run Relay was junk and giving me issues after getting hot. But i'll know more tomorrow. Thanks for everything guys!
 

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I think you are on a roll and done everything that I would, unless I had found a problem. Nice work! At this point it is about playing it by ear.

For the side of the 30A fuse that feeds to the relay, one side visibly goes to the battery, and the other side is spliced to the length of Red/White that runs from the VR to the Run Relay.
 
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