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On the bold... by the same token as "that's only 14 years away"... Dude, that is 14 whole years away. 14 years is a long time for snowmobile technology to progress to the point that a reasonable zero-emissions sled can come to market. I realize that something like that will have compromises (range, weight, etc.), and it will not please everyone, but people adapt. Companies adapt or they go out of business.

Think about the difference in sled technology from14 years ago until now. Better yet, think about how different sleds were designed and performed between 1989 and 2003. That is how far you can progress in 14 years. I am an optimist and think that 15 years from now, we will still be riding, and I am looking forward to seeing how the industry adapts to make that happen.

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In 14 years, that’s enough time for people to realize, holy crap we are wasting precious power to charge vehicles that are not needed! Boom, total ban on them.
Remember, things can never be so bad that it can’t get worse.


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Its a global thing as there is pressure among all countries to meet these reductions, so I don’t blame any individual country, state or province, they are all working around the same general idea, just slightly different time frames, we are all in the same boat.

As Z7 said, most are not opposed to electric, just the way they are doing it. Push EVs hard, while at the same time pushing for more and more efficient ICE stuff. Also while looking at any other areas to improve! We will end up with very efficient gas powered vehicles and equipment while developing the electric at the same time. If they get good enough they will take over and nobody will want gas anyway.
 

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Or put another way, those in the cities have all the power - my vote, and geographically most of NY votes don't count. Our disgraced former governor won the blue. It's obvious he only needed to pander to the city, while completely ignoring the rest of the entire state. At one point when his daddy was governor Mario only won the 5 NYC boroughs - not one other county in the entire state, and it was enough to win the election. 99% of those in NYC don't give a rip about us and our snowmobiles. There is a reason the Founding Fathers implemented the electoral college system;

I'm in Illinois and so I know exactly what you are saying. 99 of 102 counties didn't go for "Brandon." The area's that are going to be against you don't even sled I would imagine without even knowing the layout of the state.
 

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Regarding the comparison of sleds evolution over the last 14 years, I'd say the motors haven't changed a whole lot. Chassis is another story.
I would have thought the development of the Etecs and ACE (and turbo) engines were a big deal? I agree chassis have changed a lot going from the sit down style that sleds had since inception to rider forward and some real suspensions.

Fuel economy has improved so much, maybe not in just the last 14 years but big changes since the 90s. I make the odd trip with my old XC700 and am shy at how much more gas it takes than more modern sleds. The old 670s sucked gas too, my nephew rode with us with his FZ and was always worried about gas when the rest of us had plenty.
 

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On the bold... by the same token as "that's only 14 years away"... Dude, that is 14 whole years away. 14 years is a long time for snowmobile technology to progress to the point that a reasonable zero-emissions sled can come to market. I realize that something like that will have compromises (range, weight, etc.), and it will not please everyone, but people adapt. Companies adapt or they go out of business.

Think about the difference in sled technology from14 years ago until now. Better yet, think about how different sleds were designed and performed between 1989 and 2003. That is how far you can progress in 14 years. I am an optimist and think that 15 years from now, we will still be riding, and I am looking forward to seeing how the industry adapts to make that happen.

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I don't even know if kids today will care to smell the 2S oil tomorrow. In only the last few years there has been exodus of 2S owners that are going 4S. I did not expect it to happen this soon, so who knows what is going to happen in 15 to 20 years. We just sent Captain Kirk to space with his communicator, and this time for real lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
We are definitely headed towards electric powered sleds in the next decade.
Fine, but hopefully they sensibly phase it in. Not this "all or none" strategy, that never works well, that so many current politicians push down our throats. Hochul's all-electric mandate has not been well thought out and is going to have serious consequences as it is currently written.
 

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California banning gas powered lawn mowers, NYS looking at banning ICE,forest land being closed to reduce carbon foot print yup and then
China Is Planning to Build 43 New Coal-Fired Power Plants.
while they sell us solar panels!!!! Banning gas powered sleds can be compared to the time I pp in the ocean and thought I raised the tide!
 

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On the bold... by the same token as "that's only 14 years away"... Dude, that is 14 whole years away. 14 years is a long time for snowmobile technology to progress to the point that a reasonable zero-emissions sled can come to market. I realize that something like that will have compromises (range, weight, etc.), and it will not please everyone, but people adapt. Companies adapt or they go out of business.

Think about the difference in sled technology from14 years ago until now. Better yet, think about how different sleds were designed and performed between 1989 and 2003. That is how far you can progress in 14 years. I am an optimist and think that 15 years from now, we will still be riding, and I am looking forward to seeing how the industry adapts to make that happen.

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14 years ago we were riding XPs, still a good, ridable sled today.

That said, my 14 year comment was more directed at his comment, posted below. The regulations being discussed are 14 years away - I have every intention of being alive and riding 14 years from now.

"I don't think any one of us can predict what will happen when we are dead, which is about when all these new changes will take effect."
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
NYS looking at banning
Not looking to ban. It is now law. 2035 is only 14 years away. Granted, we can continue to ride our internal combustion 2034 Ski-Doos and go to Ohio, Pennsylvania, Vermont, etc. and purchase new 2035 internal combustion Ski-Doos. Hochul's poorly thought out law will just put dealers in New York and the New Yorkers they employ in the unemployment line. I wonder who will pay the school, county, and town taxes that these dealers used to pay?
 
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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
China Is Planning to Build 43 New Coal-Fired Power Plants.
No worries, the environmentalists will PUNISH China by buying more of their stuff.

I have to laugh when I see a "Save the Earth" bumper sticker on an automobile manufactured on the other side of the planet and made in a factory with low environmental standards, low labor standards, etc.
 

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Not looking to ban. It is now law. 2035 is only 14 years away. Granted, we can continue to ride our internal combustion 2034 Ski-Doos and go to Ohio, Pennsylvania, Vermont, etc. and purchase new 2035 internal combustion Ski-Doos. Hochul's poorly thought out law will just put dealers in New York and the New Yorkers they employ in the unemployment line. I wonder who will pay the school, county, and town taxes that these dealers used to pay?
I agree, but there is still time for others to follow suit before then with similar timelines. As I said, I don’t think the plan of buying a brand new gas powered machine just before the deadline is going to work that easy. I see gas becoming unaffordable by that time making it nearly impossible to operate one. When they are taking such a hard line, I think they will be using other measures to eliminate use of ICE. Its a mess, and I don’t see how it can ever work. Again, whats the substitute for gas generators, portable welders, professional grade saws and on and on? Sure electric is gonna be great for some things, my next weed eater will be electric, but not seeing it as the answer for everything. As was mentioned go to this extreme, while building new coal fired powerplants, and even here a new cement plant is to burn pet coal. It all makes no sense.
 

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I agree, but there is still time for other states and provinces to follow suit before then with similar timelines. As I said, I don’t think the plan of buying a brand new gas powered machine just before the deadline is going to work that easy. I see them making gas unaffordable by that time making it nearly impossible to operate one. When they are taking such a hard line, I think they will be using other measures to eliminate use of ICE. Its a mess, and I don’t see how it can ever work. Again, whats the substitute for gas generators, portable welders, professional grade saws and on and on? Sure electric is gonna be great for some things, my next weed eater will be electric, but not seeing it as the answer for everything. As was mentioned go to this extreme, while building new coal fired powerplants, and even here a new cement plant is to burn pet coal. It all makes no sense.
Al brought to you by the save the planet tree huggers that think there electricity comes from that socket on the wall .
 

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I thought this political stuff was a No-No...
It's snowmobile related, so it's very relevant.

Like it or not, politics are screwing with the future of us riding as we know it.
 

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So I just got back from a 2-month RV trip out west. It was a great trip with some amazing scenery and sights. I also learned a lot on the trip.... some of which might be relevant to this topic.

- In the late 1800's Teddy Roosevelt decided to purchase and run a ranch out in North Dakota. He often visited that area to hunt and loved it there so he thought being a rancher would be a great life. However, weather conditions in the mid-1880's brought a late winter thaw and then scorching summer heat resulted in a short growing season. Wildfires took their toll on certain areas, and by winter the cattle were underfed and ranchers had little feed to supply their livestock. Then the winter of 1886-87 proved to be extraordinarily harsh. One blizzard after another quickly buried what was left of the grazing land, and it was so cold, cattle were found frozen to death where they stood. Tens of thousands of cattle died in the winter of 1886-1887, around 80% of the total population. In the spring, the Little Missouri River swelled onto its floodplain and made it extremely difficult for farmers and ranchers. Roosevelt soon decided to sell his property and get out of ranching after loosing most of his livestock on two different occasions because the weather was too brutal and unpredictable.

- Hundreds and thousands of years ago there were a lot of different animals like the three-toed horse and north american camel. As temperatures swung hotter or colder with cliamte change, these animals had to adapt or they became extict. These are two of the many species that didn't adapt to climate change and didn't survive.

- Throughout the history of the west in the 1700's and 1800's there are many example of droughts, floods and large temperature swings that made it very difficult for the native americans and the settlers trying to move through the west. The weather changes wiped out crops or drove animals like the Bison from their normal habitats. Many native american tribes had to migrate far distances as the weather changes forcred their food supply to move.

There are many other examples of how weather was extreme and changed the lives of people and animals.... all long before the industrial revolution. Teddy Roosevelt was as tough as they come but he learned he couldn't beat or change the weather and he had to give up something that was his passion because he couldn't do anything about the weather.

Now I'm not naive enough to think that we don't have some small impact on the climate. However, the people who think the droughts, fires, floods, severe storms and extreme weather in general are all because of power plants, driving cars, running a weedwacker or riding a sled..... those people are the naive ones. If they think we can stop doing all these things and it will change the weather, they need to go back and study history and learn how the weather changed over time and how it negatively impacted lives of people and animals long before there was a car on the road or a power plant.

I'm not saying we should not be more respectful of our planet but banning cars and snowmobiles is not the answer to preventing climate change if you read history. Even if it was, countries like China and Russia could care less and as they continue to polute the air, that air evenutally travels right over North America.
 
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