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I would be ditching the doo primary and secondary springs for Dalton's before adding the Dalton weights. I would also take an 1/8" off that spring cup while I was in there. Run it in same conditions/air temp with spring updates only to see if the results are the same and if they are then throw the weights into the mix..
 

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I would be ditching the doo primary and secondary springs for Dalton's before adding the Dalton weights. I would also take an 1/8" off that spring cup while I was in there. Run it in same conditions/air temp with spring updates only to see if the results are the same and if they are then throw the weights into the mix..
Other than the different ramps , They all left the factory with the same clutches , Unless BRP got a bad batch of springs or a different supplier for the springs. Some Mach’s are pulling 8000/ 7900 all day long. It is definitely got a lot of people taking . Hopefully We get to the root of this issue.
 

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After my Daltons arrive, and I have sled revving right, it will be interesting to see if the RPMS rise as I pile miles on, or will it remain unchanged?

Will be easy to see as I have Danos Adr as test mule.

Next thing will be to dive into the WG crack pressure if the break in achieves no gain in RPMs.

Dan
Could you get Dano to bring a Train load of Dalton adjustable ramps to Muskoka
 

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Ran my new 900R X yesterday for first time. 1.25 IR, not studded yet, cleaned clutches(scotch brite), tightened belt and track. Rode it easy for first 30 miles to break in belt and sliders. First time I wacked it WOT I see 8000 and holds at 7900. That was at around 50 miles on sled. Every time afterward I pinned it same thing, 8000 then hold at 7900. Never held it WOT for more than 5 seconds or so and recorded 117 on the dream-o-meter.
 

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Ran my new 900R X yesterday for first time. 1.25 IR, not studded yet, cleaned clutches(scotch brite), tightened belt and track. Rode it easy for first 30 miles to break in belt and sliders. First time I wacked it WOT I see 8000 and holds at 7900. That was at around 50 miles on sled. Every time afterward I pinned it same thing, 8000 then hold at 7900. Never held it WOT for more than 5 seconds or so and recorded 117 on the dream-o-meter.
If you get a chance to hold it i wouldn't be surprised if you see it settle in at 7700.
 

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For comparison my buddies 900r xrs holds 8000 rpms when I rode it for over 1200' or so. He also said it was at 8000 all weekend for him. His has a 1.5" ice ripper and only saw 106 on gauge.
How many miles on it?
8000 from day one?
 

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I wonder if the guys seeing 7900-8000 took their belt off, cleaned clutches, and put a new belt on if it still turns the 7900-8000. I'm wondering how many guys have a belt soaked in shipping oil and are getting a few more rpms.
Good point. Mine has been 77 from day one and my dealer is very diligent in cleaning the oil off the clutches before a belt ever go's on.
 

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From 1 to 250 miles. It had about 15 miles on it when I rode it the first time and did a longer pull. It wasn't cold either. In the 20's F. He picked it up at the dealer and ran it. Never touched a thing.
It certainly is all over the map from one sled to another with the rpm. Just as confusing is the difference in top end. Some with 8000 have good top end and others don't and the same can be said about the sleds with lower rpm, such as mine @ 77 but i can consistently pull off 113 gps in decent conditions or 109 gps in average conditions & 99gps in 6" of $hit.
 

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One variable in everyone's overall RPM readings may be that the tach functions are not all 100% the same accuracy... +/-100 RPM difference would not surprise me across a broad population of sleds, even with the digital computers doing the tach function. We're not buying calibrated tachs with these machines.

BTW OP, do you recall the exact top end GPS speeds (that were 5 mph different) on that first day? If the speed difference of 5 mph was in proportion to the 400 RPM difference, it would work out to 94 vs 99 mph.
If different from those speed numbers, then the matters of belt slippage and tach differences become variables. It might be worthwhile checking the sheave temps on the 2 machines after running them hard for a while.
 

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I havent seen any Machs revving those rpms. Only ones are guys who have changed their ramps. Certainly might be out there but I havent read any. Seems most 900r revving good or closer to good are XRS or X, and my buds ADR is really good for revs.

Dan
I have the 22 xrs. I’ve seen mine hit 8000 many times then settle out around 7800 7900. That’s trail riding
 

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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
I know from my 19 turbo, springs were always the culprit for low RPM’s.
The Dalton ramps and weights will also bring the Rpms up , But if the spring is still week the same issues will keep on happening.

What about switching the the entire clutch from the Mach to the Adrenaline. ?
Absolutely could be springs, but all else is identical on these two sled's clutching. Ramps are a quick change without the need to remove clutch and split open and change spring.

I will certainly dive deeper into clutching soon enough, this was a simple fast test to rule out that my mach is far below other sleds. This simple test with the 880 ramps tells me my mach is right where others are for the most part with this many miles in ticker.

Dan
 

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If you read closely you will see the punctuation in my title leaves lots of wiggle room ;)

Everyone knows it by now, most Mach Z's seem to be revving too low. Other models seem to be doing a bit better with some more then others....today i was able to rule out some things.

Most here know the backstory, but I will briefly fill anyone new in.

Dano and I got new 900r's. His Adrenalin and my Mach Z. First real day out riding(lake only) he revs 8000 and settles in at 7900 much of the day on a lake with 8" fluff. My Mach same day only manages to rev 7600 for split second then settles in at 7500. This was a colder day around -15c(5f). At the end of that first day we both had around 50 miles on ODO. Needless to say the machine revving correctly would walk the other, and have an approx 5mph difference on top end(GPS). But the rpms are what this thread is about, not speeds.

Went for a 2nd ride the next day, this was all trail. Pretty much same thing, adrenalin revving correctly around 7900 and Mach revving 7500. Now at end of that day we both have close to 140 miles on ODO.

When swapping sleds as we do often, I could instantly feel the lower engagement, and how much harder it grabs the belt and moves the sled NOW! Mach with that flat section on ramp, comes in 'Soft' and sorta lazy IMO. This feeling continues to about 1/3 throttle. Making the base cheaper ADR feel much more connected to the snow, and also "quicker" down at the bottom.

So I decided to test his 880 ramps on the Mach, since all else is equal between these two models. ADR,X,XRS all come with 880 ramps while the Mach comes with 897 ramps. Biggest difference is the flat section at heel(engagement) which raises engagement rpm to help with Launch Control. Having the quick change ramp tool, and also the Pin removal tool from Chris at C&T Powersports made this ramp change a less than 10 minute job. Got it down to under 60 seconds to pull a ramp. Everyone with a pDrive clutch should own this tool!

View attachment 1986507


I removed the 880 ramps from Dano's sled, and today installed them into my Mach. I let the sled warm up(but not too hot) to approx 110f. It's a MUCH milder day today then the previous 2 days I rode my Mach stock. Today was -2c(28f) and my lake has some slush in many areas, but not deep slush.

On my road to the lake, I cracked it WOT for a quick shot, unstudded(still) track spun on my hard-packed/icy road instantly hitting 7800. Short road so it was just a quick shot. Enter onto my lake and I have a section approx 2000ft shoreline I like to run. First 4 runs back and forth, the Mach now revs to 7800 on the hit, then settles to 7700. Far better then the 7500 before(on a colder day). After about 4 runs I saw my temp was now over 180f so I decided to try the Launch Control. LC does still work with the 880 ramps, but in a far lesser capacity. It will only hold revs around 3k so not nearly as high and does not hit as hard. So this is why those Mach ramps are needed. As I suspected.

I like the 880 ramps MUCH better overall, from bottom engagement feel(even at 2700) to mid, to top. So I am very happy to have my Dalton adjustable ramps arriving soon from Chris at C&T. The curve on the Daltons will be much closer to the 880 ramps and no flat spot. I could care less about LC and Im sure I can always raise rpms with a spring if I really want later. Adjustables will allow me to add/remove tip weight and mid/heel weight to my liking, getting the Mach to rev correctly, and "IF" the rpms come up by some miracle, I can simply add slugs back into the Daltons at that time. Been running dalton adj weights in most every sled I have owned since early 2000s, another must have IMO.

NOTES:
I did check over a few other things today for peace of mind. I removed the IC to check the drain plug on front bottom corner(chain side) and was able to tighten that finger cap with a T40 torx about 1/4 turn, but I don't feel it was leaking at all...just was something to check for.(Thanks Phil!)

I also made note of the "play" in the throttle lever. I noted the Adrenalin has far far less play(likely due to no FAR cable routing), while my Mach has a fair bit. So when riding WOT I used my left index finger to press on the exposed cable, taking all the play out til it was taught, and not one single RPM change. So another non issue.

My takeaway is that Dano's sled while revving higher, was a colder day. And likely today he may have revved a tad less, i'm thinking 7800 rather than 7900. And for mine to rev 7800 and 7700 today with his ramps, I feel my Mach is basically where it should be. In other words, I do not think I have any boost leaks ect. I did go over all clamps and all are tight.(2nd time)

I honestly think BRP designed the 897 ramps all around the launch control, and did not pay nearly enough attention to the rest. Studying both these ramps side by side its plain to see they Mach has more tip weight and less heel weight, and so its revving lower on top. And the flat section at heel for LC IMO makes this sled feel very lazy. These will be going in a box as soon as my Daltons arrive.

See video below

Dan

Hey Dan, is there anywhere in Ontario to purchase these tools for the privet?? I'm located in muskoka area. This tool looks pretty slick! Thanks for all your research and posts on Dootalk & totally Yamaha 👍 great stuff!
 

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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Thanks for the RPM update……now what can you tell us about the Smart Shox!!!!! Lol….yes I’m in suspense since my XRS has the dumb shox……..
Only got to run one day on trail, and they are thin here. So not really any moguls. I did get to hit some holes here and there and at this early juncture I feel the Smart Shox may be the best thing I have ever experienced to date. I used to constantly be off my sled to adjust compression, where now I just flip switch. I went back and forth from medium to firmest alot, and the best way to describe it is firm makes the sled feel incredibly "connected" to the trail, sorta like a high end sports car does. And I hit some serious holes with that in firmest mode and there is pretty much no way I will ever bottom that out, and I am full soft on springs and all blocks. Medium mode tends to feel much more "disconnected" from the trail, what I would describe as the "cadillac" feel. It does still keep sled flat in corners even in softer mode however I prefer the stiffest mode for when really riding hard.

I would say the SS are the high point in my early ownership. Obviously power has 100% of my attention right now and very little sleep, thanks BRP!

Dan
 

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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
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9,345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Did you check the secondary tension? Have a dalton on order?
Not yet, just one change at a time in my experience is the way to narrow things down.

Also, remember this is a compression secondary, not torsional.

Dan
 

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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
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9,345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #40 ·
For the question about the smart shocks you don't want them on sport Plus if you're riding real bumpy trails like hard stutter bumps as they are they are really stiff in that setting but 778 miles on it 3 days 90% of the time in sport mode hope this helps
Totally disagree Ken....I prefer firmest mode for our type riding. The medium mode is very plush feeling and abit "floaty" for me. Medium should work well for small studders for sure if you want that very plush feel.

Dab
 
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