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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
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9,345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
If you read closely you will see the punctuation in my title leaves lots of wiggle room ;)

Everyone knows it by now, most Mach Z's seem to be revving too low. Other models seem to be doing a bit better with some more then others....today i was able to rule out some things.

Most here know the backstory, but I will briefly fill anyone new in.

Dano and I got new 900r's. His Adrenalin and my Mach Z. First real day out riding(lake only) he revs 8000 and settles in at 7900 much of the day on a lake with 8" fluff. My Mach same day only manages to rev 7600 for split second then settles in at 7500. This was a colder day around -15c(5f). At the end of that first day we both had around 50 miles on ODO. Needless to say the machine revving correctly would walk the other, and have an approx 5mph difference on top end(GPS). But the rpms are what this thread is about, not speeds.

Went for a 2nd ride the next day, this was all trail. Pretty much same thing, adrenalin revving correctly around 7900 and Mach revving 7500. Now at end of that day we both have close to 140 miles on ODO.

When swapping sleds as we do often, I could instantly feel the lower engagement, and how much harder it grabs the belt and moves the sled NOW! Mach with that flat section on ramp, comes in 'Soft' and sorta lazy IMO. This feeling continues to about 1/3 throttle. Making the base cheaper ADR feel much more connected to the snow, and also "quicker" down at the bottom.

So I decided to test his 880 ramps on the Mach, since all else is equal between these two models. ADR,X,XRS all come with 880 ramps while the Mach comes with 897 ramps. Biggest difference is the flat section at heel(engagement) which raises engagement rpm to help with Launch Control. Having the quick change ramp tool, and also the Pin removal tool from Chris at C&T Powersports made this ramp change a less than 10 minute job. Got it down to under 60 seconds to pull a ramp. Everyone with a pDrive clutch should own this tool!

Wood Bicycle part Symbol Font Metal



I removed the 880 ramps from Dano's sled, and today installed them into my Mach. I let the sled warm up(but not too hot) to approx 110f. It's a MUCH milder day today then the previous 2 days I rode my Mach stock. Today was -2c(28f) and my lake has some slush in many areas, but not deep slush.

On my road to the lake, I cracked it WOT for a quick shot, unstudded(still) track spun on my hard-packed/icy road instantly hitting 7800. Short road so it was just a quick shot. Enter onto my lake and I have a section approx 2000ft shoreline I like to run. First 4 runs back and forth, the Mach now revs to 7800 on the hit, then settles to 7700. Far better then the 7500 before(on a colder day). After about 4 runs I saw my temp was now over 180f so I decided to try the Launch Control. LC does still work with the 880 ramps, but in a far lesser capacity. It will only hold revs around 3k so not nearly as high and does not hit as hard. So this is why those Mach ramps are needed. As I suspected.

I like the 880 ramps MUCH better overall, from bottom engagement feel(even at 2700) to mid, to top. So I am very happy to have my Dalton adjustable ramps arriving soon from Chris at C&T. The curve on the Daltons will be much closer to the 880 ramps and no flat spot. I could care less about LC and Im sure I can always raise rpms with a spring if I really want later. Adjustables will allow me to add/remove tip weight and mid/heel weight to my liking, getting the Mach to rev correctly, and "IF" the rpms come up by some miracle, I can simply add slugs back into the Daltons at that time. Been running dalton adj weights in most every sled I have owned since early 2000s, another must have IMO.

NOTES:
I did check over a few other things today for peace of mind. I removed the IC to check the drain plug on front bottom corner(chain side) and was able to tighten that finger cap with a T40 torx about 1/4 turn, but I don't feel it was leaking at all...just was something to check for.(Thanks Phil!)

I also made note of the "play" in the throttle lever. I noted the Adrenalin has far far less play(likely due to no FAR cable routing), while my Mach has a fair bit. So when riding WOT I used my left index finger to press on the exposed cable, taking all the play out til it was taught, and not one single RPM change. So another non issue.

My takeaway is that Dano's sled while revving higher, was a colder day. And likely today he may have revved a tad less, i'm thinking 7800 rather than 7900. And for mine to rev 7800 and 7700 today with his ramps, I feel my Mach is basically where it should be. In other words, I do not think I have any boost leaks ect. I did go over all clamps and all are tight.(2nd time)

I honestly think BRP designed the 897 ramps all around the launch control, and did not pay nearly enough attention to the rest. Studying both these ramps side by side its plain to see they Mach has more tip weight and less heel weight, and so its revving lower on top. And the flat section at heel for LC IMO makes this sled feel very lazy. These will be going in a box as soon as my Daltons arrive.

See video below

Dan

 

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Banshee Builder
2022 backcountryXRS 850
Joined
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10,129 Posts
great content as always dan! although i dont have a mach i have been following the rpm struggles many are facing. anything pdrive related is interesting to me and love reading these well put together shared trials.

couldnt agree with you more about the quick change tool from chris. a must have for tuning. big fan of daltons adjustable ramps too (y)(y)
 

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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
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9,345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Ramps arent the problem...
In my case the ramp change did alot. And most importantly showed me how much i HATE the Mach ramps and their soft drive off.

Certainly can be other issues, but this was a simple eye opener while waiting for my Dalton adjustables which I originally ordered simply due to the fact I plan to run an Ultimax.

Dan
 

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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
Joined
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9,345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Isn’t there xrs and x sleds low on rpm with the same ramps you put in your Mach Dan? Nice detailed video btw.
Most all the X, XRS sleds I have read about are around 7700 or so, which is where mine was at with 880s. So this made me feel better then the 7500.

It mostly seems the Mach are revving lowest, and easy to see with the tip weight on the 897.

Dan
 

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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
Joined
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9,345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree , why are some Mach’s running at 7900 to 8000 rpms with the stock ramps .?
I havent seen any Machs revving those rpms. Only ones are guys who have changed their ramps. Certainly might be out there but I havent read any. Seems most 900r revving good or closer to good are XRS or X, and my buds ADR is really good for revs.

Dan
 

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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
Joined
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9,345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
What did the non Mach run with the Mach weights…….??

I believe that would tell you if it is in fact the weights.
Yeah we would have love to do that but was not available today for that test. And one look at the ramps tells me what that sled will do with more tip weight.

Dan
 

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OCD Sledhead
Mach Z 900R
Joined
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9,345 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
After my Daltons arrive, and I have sled revving right, it will be interesting to see if the RPMS rise as I pile miles on, or will it remain unchanged?

Will be easy to see as I have Danos Adr as test mule.

Next thing will be to dive into the WG crack pressure if the break in achieves no gain in RPMs.

Dan
 

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Registered
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492 Posts
I agree , why are some Mach’s running at 7900 to 8000 rpms with the stock ramps .?
I know from my 19 turbo, springs were always the culprit for low RPM’s.
The Dalton ramps and weights will also bring the Rpms up , But if the spring is still week the same issues will keep on happening.

What about switching the the entire clutch from the Mach to the Adrenaline. ?
 

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Registered
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516 Posts
After my Daltons arrive, and I have sled revving right, it will be interesting to see if the RPMS rise as I pile miles on, or will it remain unchanged?

Will be easy to see as I have Danos Adr as test mule.

Next thing will be to dive into the WG crack pressure if the break in achieves no gain in RPMs.

Dan
Thanks for the RPM update……now what can you tell us about the Smart Shox!!!!! Lol….yes I’m in suspense since my XRS has the dumb shox……..
 

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Registered
'96 f3 600, '00 mach z 800, '19 900 ace N/A
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2,580 Posts
In my case the ramp change did alot. And most importantly showed me how much i HATE the Mach ramps and their soft drive off.

Certainly can be other issues, but this was a simple eye opener while waiting for my Dalton adjustables which I originally ordered simply due to the fact I plan to run an Ultimax.

Dan
Did you check the secondary tension? Have a dalton on order?
 

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SkiDoo Guru
Joined
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20,973 Posts
If you read closely you will see the punctuation in my title leaves lots of wiggle room ;)

Everyone knows it by now, most Mach Z's seem to be revving too low. Other models seem to be doing a bit better with some more then others....today i was able to rule out some things.

Most here know the backstory, but I will briefly fill anyone new in.

Dano and I got new 900r's. His Adrenalin and my Mach Z. First real day out riding(lake only) he revs 8000 and settles in at 7900 much of the day on a lake with 8" fluff. My Mach same day only manages to rev 7600 for split second then settles in at 7500. This was a colder day around -15c(5f). At the end of that first day we both had around 50 miles on ODO. Needless to say the machine revving correctly would walk the other, and have an approx 5mph difference on top end(GPS). But the rpms are what this thread is about, not speeds.

Went for a 2nd ride the next day, this was all trail. Pretty much same thing, adrenalin revving correctly around 7900 and Mach revving 7500. Now at end of that day we both have close to 140 miles on ODO.

When swapping sleds as we do often, I could instantly feel the lower engagement, and how much harder it grabs the belt and moves the sled NOW! Mach with that flat section on ramp, comes in 'Soft' and sorta lazy IMO. This feeling continues to about 1/3 throttle. Making the base cheaper ADR feel much more connected to the snow, and also "quicker" down at the bottom.

So I decided to test his 880 ramps on the Mach, since all else is equal between these two models. ADR,X,XRS all come with 880 ramps while the Mach comes with 897 ramps. Biggest difference is the flat section at heel(engagement) which raises engagement rpm to help with Launch Control. Having the quick change ramp tool, and also the Pin removal tool from Chris at C&T Powersports made this ramp change a less than 10 minute job. Got it down to under 60 seconds to pull a ramp. Everyone with a pDrive clutch should own this tool!

View attachment 1986507


I removed the 880 ramps from Dano's sled, and today installed them into my Mach. I let the sled warm up(but not too hot) to approx 110f. It's a MUCH milder day today then the previous 2 days I rode my Mach stock. Today was -2c(28f) and my lake has some slush in many areas, but not deep slush.

On my road to the lake, I cracked it WOT for a quick shot, unstudded(still) track spun on my hard-packed/icy road instantly hitting 7800. Short road so it was just a quick shot. Enter onto my lake and I have a section approx 2000ft shoreline I like to run. First 4 runs back and forth, the Mach now revs to 7800 on the hit, then settles to 7700. Far better then the 7500 before(on a colder day). After about 4 runs I saw my temp was now over 180f so I decided to try the Launch Control. LC does still work with the 880 ramps, but in a far lesser capacity. It will only hold revs around 3k so not nearly as high and does not hit as hard. So this is why those Mach ramps are needed. As I suspected.

I like the 880 ramps MUCH better overall, from bottom engagement feel(even at 2700) to mid, to top. So I am very happy to have my Dalton adjustable ramps arriving soon from Chris at C&T. The curve on the Daltons will be much closer to the 880 ramps and no flat spot. I could care less about LC and Im sure I can always raise rpms with a spring if I really want later. Adjustables will allow me to add/remove tip weight and mid/heel weight to my liking, getting the Mach to rev correctly, and "IF" the rpms come up by some miracle, I can simply add slugs back into the Daltons at that time. Been running dalton adj weights in most every sled I have owned since early 2000s, another must have IMO.

NOTES:
I did check over a few other things today for peace of mind. I removed the IC to check the drain plug on front bottom corner(chain side) and was able to tighten that finger cap with a T40 torx about 1/4 turn, but I don't feel it was leaking at all...just was something to check for.(Thanks Phil!)

I also made note of the "play" in the throttle lever. I noted the Adrenalin has far far less play(likely due to no FAR cable routing), while my Mach has a fair bit. So when riding WOT I used my left index finger to press on the exposed cable, taking all the play out til it was taught, and not one single RPM change. So another non issue.

My takeaway is that Dano's sled while revving higher, was a colder day. And likely today he may have revved a tad less, i'm thinking 7800 rather than 7900. And for mine to rev 7800 and 7700 today with his ramps, I feel my Mach is basically where it should be. In other words, I do not think I have any boost leaks ect. I did go over all clamps and all are tight.(2nd time)

I honestly think BRP designed the 897 ramps all around the launch control, and did not pay nearly enough attention to the rest. Studying both these ramps side by side its plain to see they Mach has more tip weight and less heel weight, and so its revving lower on top. And the flat section at heel for LC IMO makes this sled feel very lazy. These will be going in a box as soon as my Daltons arrive.

See video below

Dan

How come you didn't put the 897s in the other sled and try them so you can get some real feedback
 

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SkiDoo Guru
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For the question about the smart shocks you don't want them on sport Plus if you're riding real bumpy trails like hard stutter bumps as they are they are really stiff in that setting but 778 miles on it 3 days 90% of the time in sport mode hope this helps
 

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Waiting for my Dalton adjustables which I originally ordered simply due to the fact I plan to run an Ultimax.

Dan
The Daltons are nice and I have run them before myself. But I'm not sure about tossing $ out to run a cheaper belt knowing that Doos have been pretty dam good in regards to belt life over the years. Seems like your just trading $ in regards to the "belt" itself. Getting the adjustability of the ramps will be the bigger benefit in my mind.
Good thing the Mach only costs 18+k...
 
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