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Let me think on average this Quebec/Ontario comes up for debate about what? 3-4 times a year.

3/4 have nothing but praise for que trails. The others, not saying bad things didn't happen to you but the neg is always over exaggerated with some of it based on stories trailside or assumptions.

I live on the border, whole life. Travelled everywhere, guess what bad things happen, while everywhere. But knock on wood not to me.

I find on average que trails, accommodations, food, people to be far superior to ont. Que caters to snowmobilers. It big business. You call for oil, parts no problem they will deliver it to your hotel. Ont? Not a chance in hell. I got lots of stories in each province, what's the point. Those are my stories and not the norm. We all could go on forever talking about this one time this or that happened.

Theft? Everywhere. Park your sled in Montreal? Gone. Park your sled in ah toronto, gone. All the same. There is no underground org crime dealing in sleds. They are too busy pushing kilos of cocaine, you know, where the real money is. Not parting out sleds. That's what the local groups of losers do, and don't forget the us/CA border reserves. Bye bye everything if you are close to there.

Both big provinces, the op can u advise where you are traveling from and a radius where you would drive to. I think that will help alot to get some better answers and not our endless stories.

As mentioned already a few times the northern ont, new liskeard to val dor, even farther north or rouyn, ville Marie, larder lake etc etc is a great loop. Why not ride both sides? Best of both worlds. But again no idea if that's on your radar.

Use the trail maps, highlight a route and we can point out all the best spots along the way.

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Intrepid Snowmobiler had a great article about the Val d or area and the Quebec permit pricing is discounted if you purchase before December 9th.Planning a trip there after restrictions are lifted .‍♂
 

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Let me think on average this Quebec/Ontario comes up for debate about what? 3-4 times a year.

3/4 have nothing but praise for que trails. The others, not saying bad things didn't happen to you but the neg is always over exaggerated with some of it based on stories trailside or assumptions.

I live on the border, whole life. Travelled everywhere, guess what bad things happen, while everywhere. But knock on wood not to me.

I find on average que trails, accommodations, food, people to be far superior to ont. Que caters to snowmobilers. It big business. You call for oil, parts no problem they will deliver it to your hotel. Ont? Not a chance in hell. I got lots of stories in each province, what's the point. Those are my stories and not the norm. We all could go on forever talking about this one time this or that happened.

Theft? Everywhere. Park your sled in Montreal? Gone. Park your sled in ah toronto, gone. All the same. There is no underground org crime dealing in sleds. They are too busy pushing kilos of cocaine, you know, where the real money is. Not parting out sleds. That's what the local groups of losers do, and don't forget the us/CA border reserves. Bye bye everything if you are close to there.

Both big provinces, the op can u advise where you are traveling from and a radius where you would drive to. I think that will help alot to get some better answers and not our endless stories.

As mentioned already a few times the northern ont, new liskeard to val dor, even farther north or rouyn, ville Marie, larder lake etc etc is a great loop. Why not ride both sides? Best of both worlds. But again no idea if that's on your radar.

Use the trail maps, highlight a route and we can point out all the best spots along the way.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
As said, nobody is arguing that QC has great trails also. But the "theft is everywhere" statements, are not true. QC is the most corrupt province in Canada, unfortunately, and organized crime there is a real thing. I lived there. Heck, they had to hire and train special prosecutors there just for the biker/organized crime rings. No, local "kids" are not stealing new trucks with modern anti-theft, enclosed trailers, etc. You're minimizing the Quebec crime situation. Nobody has ever been murdered in Ontario for operating a competing sled destination, to my knowledge. National news magazines have even covered it numerous times. As I said earlier, has anyone in Ontario ever said "remove your fuel pump relay" when parking your truck? And why do all these QC hotels/lodges have compounds and video surveillance? Sure, petty theft happens everywhere. But disappearing 4x4s and trailers are not the work of petty thieves. And we know where the trucks are going, as several were recovered in shipping containers.

And we've had parts AND food/beer delivered to our lodge in Ontario, waiting for us at the end of the day. Our personal experiences for services are better in Ontario. It's kinda like the difference between Montreal and Toronto, but a northern version. :)

Bottom line, I hope the OP has a great trip wherever he decides to go. Trails in both provinces are great.
 

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No need to continue on with this discussion from me. There is absolutely nothing you could say to change my mind about riding in Quebec vs Ontario. I buy an Ontario permit just to ride to Quebec. My cottage is in district 14. I've averaged 10-15k a season for the past 20 years. I ride on average 15 weekends in Quebec per season. None of the points you raised have ever come up. I've experienced some of the most passionate and helpful people in my life there. Have received hospitality and experience not available here in Ontario. Nothing we have in Ontario can even compare to Gaspe, chic chocs, mt valin etc… Anyway you enjoy the premium Ontario hotels, food and trails. I'll be in Quebec with the rest of the fed up Ontario guys.
Good to hear you never had issues in QC, very good to hear. Unfortunately, I personally know several who have had rigs stolen. Maybe they didn't like your truck. :) Never said QC didn't have great trails, but ON has equally as good trails. I've lived in both provinces. And the murders in QC actually happened, over a small sled lodge taking business from the big one next door. That crap has never happened in Ontario, to my knowledge. Great trails, yes, but bring your old trucks/trailers, etc.
 

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Good to hear you never had issues in QC, very good to hear. Unfortunately, I personally know several who have had rigs stolen. Maybe they didn't like your truck. :) Never said QC didn't have great trails, but ON has equally as good trails. I've lived in both provinces. And the murders in QC actually happened, over a small sled lodge taking business from the big one next door. That crap has never happened in Ontario, to my knowledge. Great trails, yes, but bring your old trucks/trailers, etc.
Northern Ontario a few years back saw a son in law murder his father in law with an axe while bear hunting in elk lake. Trust me just because you don't read about it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen in Ontario. There is nothing you could say to change my mind. I've ridden my whole life. If given the choice I'd never choose Ontario over Quebec ever.
 

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But the "theft is everywhere" statements, are not true. QC is the most corrupt province in Canada, unfortunately, and organized crime there is a real thing. I lived there. Heck, they had to hire and train special prosecutors there just for the biker/organized crime rings. No, local "kids" are not stealing new trucks with modern anti-theft, enclosed trailers, etc. You're minimizing the Quebec crime situation. Nobody has ever been murdered in Ontario for operating a competing sled destination, to my knowledge. National news magazines have even covered it numerous times. As I said earlier, has anyone in Ontario ever said "remove your fuel pump relay" when parking your truck? And why do all these QC hotels/lodges have compounds and video surveillance? Sure, petty theft happens everywhere. But disappearing 4x4s and trailers are not the work of petty thieves. And we know where the trucks are going, as several were recovered in shipping containers.
Unfortunately, such focus on the urban-centered crime in QC make things look worse than they are overall in QC. The last time this came up, I looked at the overall provincial crime stats, and found the same things I just found now.

Property theft rates overall per 100,000 for 2019:

ON: 2661

QC: 1720

Homocide rates overall per 100,000 for 2015-2019 (averaged):

ON: 1.55

QC: 1.0

So yes, crime IS everywhere. It is nonsense to say otherwise. Any story you can tell in QC, others can match in ON.... or Maine, or Michigan, or ....It may well be that there is more organized crime and fewer small-time criminals in QC; that might explain the lower overall property crime rates. Or the rate of reporting thefts to the authorities is lower in QC; it is hard to know.

As said, don't stay around Montreal (or Toronto, or New York City, or Chicago, or Detroit, etc.) with a trailer with snowmobile stickers all over it, and don't stay in the outer rings of small cities/towns near any of these big cities because the ready access and the attitudes tend to be similar. I do agree that if there are fenced sled park areas, that is a red-flag to be careful in that area.

Folks might laugh.. but we usually don't leave our sleds out of our ratty-looking ex-work trailer but if we do, we always chain our sleds together with a 20,000 lb logging chain. :ph34r:

FWIW... We never stay near any large city; for our 2 trips out west, we pass through the whole St Louis area and head on out to Columbia, MO; we don't arrive until near midnight, but I am not staying in any big city area with a trailer and valuables. Similarly, we push past all the NE US urban corridor and on into Maine before stopping. I intentionally look at satellite views of any motel ahead of time to look at the site and the neighborhoods nearby and don't pick the cheapo motels. Motels with earby apartment complexes are noted and avoided if possible.

We're disciplined about this, because we travel all the time for work with a trailer full of tools and expensive equipment, and ALL the valuable stuff goes into the motel rooms every night, no matter how inconvenient. The big cities are always the big worry. I'll be going to WI soon for some equipment and we won't stay anywhere near Chi-town.
 

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I've done the RAP tour around the Algonquian park a few years back and it was fun. almost 750 miles in 3 days. dropped off in north bay then rode south first to Huntsville spent the night. then to Pembroke spent the night there then hit Mattawa by lunch and back to north bay by dinner time.
 

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Northern Ontario a few years back saw a son in law murder his father in law with an axe while bear hunting in elk lake. Trust me just because you don't read about it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen in Ontario. There is nothing you could say to change my mind. I've ridden my whole life. If given the choice I'd never choose Ontario over Quebec ever.
Not trying to change your mind. Just providing info for the OP.

And that murder you referenced was snowmobiling business related (our topic of discussion)? Of course murders have occurred everywhere - I mentioned one that is a direct result of competing snowmobile businesses. And no charges laid, even though everyone knows exactly who did it. What does that tell you about the levels of corruption? Yes, perhaps even the authorities and govt. are involved. Sad to say, especially as I like sledding there. You might have to live there for a while to understand, get to know the locals, etc. But I'm happy if nobody encounters a problem there!

Just be careful if travelling there folks. 'nuff said!

Link from FCMQ site to secure hotels..... but there's no crime issue there.

Secure hotels for snowmobilers in Quebec - FCMQ :: Fédération des clubs de motoneigistes du Québec

To be eligible to participate in the program, hotels must have security features for snowmobiles such as: locked garage, locked enclosures, and free security chains for the use of guests, video surveillance systems or security guard services.

We recommend that you stay at FCMQ partner hotels during your trips - for the sake of your snowmobile. Happy snowmobiling!
 

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Unfortunately, such focus on the urban-centered crime in QC make things look worse than they are overall in QC. The last time this came up, I looked at the overall provincial crime stats, and found the same things I just found now.

Property theft rates overall per 100,000 for 2019:

ON: 2661

QC: 1720

Homocide rates overall per 100,000 for 2015-2019 (averaged):

ON: 1.55

QC: 1.0

So yes, crime IS everywhere. It is nonsense to say otherwise. Any story you can tell in QC, others can match in ON.... or Maine, or Michigan, or ....It may well be that there is more organized crime and fewer small-time criminals in QC; that might explain the lower overall property crime rates. Or the rate of reporting thefts to the authorities is lower in QC; it is hard to know.

As said, don't stay around Montreal (or Toronto, or New York City, or Chicago, or Detroit, etc.) with a trailer with snowmobile stickers all over it, and don't stay in the outer rings of small cities/towns near any of these big cities because the ready access and the attitudes tend to be similar. I do agree that if there are fenced sled park areas, that is a red-flag to be careful in that area.

Folks might laugh.. but we usually don't leave our sleds out of our ratty-looking ex-work trailer but if we do, we always chain our sleds together with a 20,000 lb logging chain. :ph34r:

FWIW... We never stay near any large city; for our 2 trips out west, we pass through the whole St Louis area and head on out to Columbia, MO; we don't arrive until near midnight, but I am not staying in any big city area with a trailer and valuables. Similarly, we push past all the NE US urban corridor and on into Maine before stopping. I intentionally look at satellite views of any motel ahead of time to look at the site and the neighborhoods nearby and don't pick the cheapo motels. Motels with earby apartment complexes are noted and avoided if possible.

We're disciplined about this, because we travel all the time for work with a trailer full of tools and expensive equipment, and ALL the valuable stuff goes into the motel rooms every night, no matter how inconvenient. The big cities are always the big worry. I'll be going to WI soon for some equipment and we won't stay anywhere near Chi-town.
No idea where you got your stats, the interwebs? lol. Try living in both provinces; you'll quickly learn the difference. And not sure what "homocide" is, but it doesn't sound very nice. :) Plus, in a corrupt atmosphere, how accurate do you think the reporting is?

As I've asked several times - why do people in QC advise you to remove your truck's fuel pump relay? Why are "secure, locked, video surveillance" sled compounds required there? This is nothing to do with urban centre yahoo crime, this is organized crime. People who have the means to have your truck in a shipping container on the St. Lawrence in a matter of hours. So if every "story" in QC can be matched in ON, name one murder that resulted from snowmobile business competition..... I'll wait.

The OP asked for some info regarding locations he might never have been to, and I'm giving an honest appraisal of both locales, having lived in both. Pretending QC does not have an organized crime problem, is a disservice to him. Just because you've never personally suffered a theft there, does not change the reality of what goes on there. Read up on QC corruption and organized crime.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Ok guys, I get the crime thing. I've been doing this long enough to learn a few things. I'm not worried about my stuff getting stolen. I'm also not worried about murders per capita. I also carry, so I'm taking someone with me to meet my maker. Lol!

What I am interested in is routes, destinations, where to sleep, where to eat, etc.

I don't care if it's far or near. I'd prefer to spend more sled time than truck time. I've snowmobiled every trail the UP of Michigan has to offer. I want to see somewhere different. Im getting a lot of arguments on this post, just not getting any real good actual info on snowmobile routes and scenery.
 

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I'm from Quebec and their is theft yes in certain hubs yes but the trail network is pretty incredible.
I've been to Mont valin several times and no issues there. Only pet peave I have is the Ontario boys slowing down the pace in the trail ( ;
Would love to ride in Ontario. Wanted to do snowtrain but heard its closed.

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Ok guys, I get the crime thing. I've been doing this long enough to learn a few things. I'm not worried about my stuff getting stolen. I'm also not worried about murders per capita. I also carry, so I'm taking someone with me to meet my maker. Lol!

What I am interested in is routes, destinations, where to sleep, where to eat, etc.

I don't care if it's far or near. I'd prefer to spend more sled time than truck time. I've snowmobiled every trail the UP of Michigan has to offer. I want to see somewhere different. Im getting a lot of arguments on this post, just not getting any real good actual info on snowmobile routes and scenery.
Noted. BTW, you can't legally carry here, just sayin'! Well, "restricteds" (handguns) anyway. I have a little Henry AR7 peashooter that fits in the medium LinQ bag, that is legal on your sled in ON, FYI. Not sure about out of country/province residents. You may need a Canadian PAL, or a validation of a U.S. license (not sure).

Cetaneaddict mentioned the RAP tour (Ontario).

Round Algonquin Park Tour - RAP Tour - Best Snowmobile Tour in Ontario (discovermuskoka.ca)

Good route that can be done in 2-3 days, or easily extended northwest to North Bay, Sudbury, and beyond, or NE into the Ottawa Valley and Quebec beyond. Some very scenic trail sections, and a lot of amenities as there are many towns. You will see Moose, deer of course, possibly elk, bobcats/Lynx, upland birds, etc. From GR, you'd be looking at a 7 hour drive (for example) to say the Bracebridge area. You can start further southwest, but this is typically snowbelt lake-effect riding, with good snowfall (but there have been lean years). If you want more wide open 110 mph sections, you need to typically go further north or into QC. Lots of lodges available too (we avoid hotels when possible). Higher end places too, if that's your thing.

My theory is always "why drive, if we can ride?". :)

Ontario sled info: OFSC.on.ca

Quebec sled info: FCMQ.qc.ca/en (English)

Ontario has a cheap ($3 or so) interactive/NAV app that gives trail conditions, as well as guidance, POIs. etc. Quebec does as well; not sure of the cost.
 

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I'm from Quebec and their is theft yes in certain hubs yes but the trail network is pretty incredible.
I've been to Mont valin several times and no issues there. Only pet peave I have is the Ontario boys slowing down the pace in the trail ( ;
Would love to ride in Ontario. Wanted to do snowtrain but heard its closed.

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And we thought you guys mandated mirrors on your sleds, so you can see the Ontario boys' headlights getting bigger as they catch you...... :)

Yes, the QC network is great. Great signage and connections also. And in southern regions, access to strip clubs with actual trail signage to said establishments. The Motel St. Pierre comes to mind..... lol
 

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Ok guys, I get the crime thing. I've been doing this long enough to learn a few things. I'm not worried about my stuff getting stolen. I'm also not worried about murders per capita. I also carry, so I'm taking someone with me to meet my maker. Lol!

What I am interested in is routes, destinations, where to sleep, where to eat, etc.

I don't care if it's far or near. I'd prefer to spend more sled time than truck time. I've snowmobiled every trail the UP of Michigan has to offer. I want to see somewhere different. Im getting a lot of arguments on this post, just not getting any real good actual info on snowmobile routes and scenery.
not to highjack your thread.........but just FYI there's no "carry" in Canada
 

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And we thought you guys mandated mirrors on your sleds, so you can see the Ontario boys' headlights getting bigger as they catch you...... :)

Yes, the QC network is great. Great signage and connections also. And in southern regions, access to strip clubs with actual trail signage to said establishments. The Motel St. Pierre comes to mind..... lol
Been there often same as Le garage facing it. It was a quick ride from the cottage lol but could make it from the house. You probably won't believe me but Le garage had golf tournaments and we went for my birthday 10 years ago. Oh my!

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Discussion Starter · #57 ·
Noted on the carry, forgot about that, I'll have to revert back to sticks and rocks! Lol! Maybe I can pack my slingshot. Ha ha

I was hoping to do the loop in Ontario that Halfway was on, but with that being closed, well not looking so good.
 

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there are many nice trails in ont 2 years ago left ottawa went to north bay stayed the night than to timmins stayed than to Sudbury and back to north bay and back to ottawa 4 days only hit about 100 km of bad trails and that was on the way back yes it depends on snow both provinces have great trails
 

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Ok guys, I get the crime thing. I've been doing this long enough to learn a few things. I'm not worried about my stuff getting stolen. I'm also not worried about murders per capita. I also carry, so I'm taking someone with me to meet my maker. Lol!

What I am interested in is routes, destinations, where to sleep, where to eat, etc.

I don't care if it's far or near. I'd prefer to spend more sled time than truck time. I've snowmobiled every trail the UP of Michigan has to offer. I want to see somewhere different. Im getting a lot of arguments on this post, just not getting any real good actual info on snowmobile routes and scenery.

There are so many destinations available, need to know how far you want to go, which time of the year, how many days of sleeding etc.

that should help https://fcmq.qc.ca/en/snowmobilers/imotoneige/

download the map, it's only 3,99$, should give you some idea.
 
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