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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys. I'm looking to put a turbo on my GSX this coming winter and need to be brought up to speed on a few things. They are probably simple (aka stupid) questions to all of you guys with experience, but I gotta start somewhere.
PROGRAMMERS:
I'm wondering about the use and programming of controllers such as the RB3. Are there "pre-packaged" programs out there that are developed by the vendor (Powderlites, MCX) that you download into the controller? Do you download these onto your laptop and then to the controller? I'm assuming that these maps are specific to the level of engine mods and altitude??
BOOST CONTROLLER:
What is this and how does it control the boost? Does it work with the controller or are these two devices independent of each other?
Thanks for any help on this for a newbie. I've been reading a lot lately on the turbo forum - it's loaded with a ton of great info from some obviously knowledgable guys.
 

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Boost controllers. In the easiest way to describe.....
A manual one is a needle valve. It limits the amount of air pressure the wastegate actuator sees. The wastegate actuator will have a certin lb. spring in it. Meaning a 12 lb spring takes 12lbs of air pressure to open the wastegate valve. So the turbo will make roughly 12lbs boost then open the wastegate to hold that boost pressure. By closing the manual boost controller(needle valve) you are raising the pressure limit of what the actuator sees in pressure. From what I have seen. You can double the spring pressure by using a manual boost controller.
Electronic boost controll
Does the same thing as above but can be controlled a bit better. Also some offer staging boost at set times, RPMs. There are many out there with tons of features. Unless your drag racing most are over kill for the typical trail guy. Save the few hundred bucks and go manual controller.

Programmers.
Rb3, PCV are computer PC based. You upload a map and then send it to the programmer bia laptop. Maps can be saved and modded on your laptop with out being pkugged ino the sled.

With this style programmer You are adjusting pulse width to add or subtract fuel. Again they offer different features like Rev limit and timing control but the user has to adjust the fuel timing map. People like Hurricane and powderlites among others will have good maps to start from. But every sled and turbo set up is different. They will all need a final adjustment once on and running on your sled at your area and altitude. Both are pretty easy once familiar with the programs.

From my knowledge and that isn't much compared to some on here the MCX is a closed set up running a secondary injector set up. The same as the new Hurricane fuel system. These are the best, due to the stock ecu and injection is left alone.

Hope this helps
AJ
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Boost controllers. In the easiest way to describe.....
A manual one is a needle valve. It limits the amount of air pressure the wastegate actuator sees. The wastegate actuator will have a certin lb. spring in it. Meaning a 12 lb spring takes 12lbs of air pressure to open the wastegate valve. So the turbo will make roughly 12lbs boost then open the wastegate to hold that boost pressure. By closing the manual boost controller(needle valve) you are raising the pressure limit of what the actuator sees in pressure. From what I have seen. You can double the spring pressure by using a manual boost controller.
Electronic boost controll
Does the same thing as above but can be controlled a bit better. Also some offer staging boost at set times, RPMs. There are many out there with tons of features. Unless your drag racing most are over kill for the typical trail guy. Save the few hundred bucks and go manual controller.
Programmers.
Rb3, PCV are computer PC based. You upload a map and then send it to the programmer bia laptop. Maps can be saved and modded on your laptop with out being pkugged ino the sled.
With this style programmer You are adjusting pulse width to add or subtract fuel. Again they offer different features like Rev limit and timing control but the user has to adjust the fuel timing map. People like Hurricane and powderlites among others will have good maps to start from. But every sled and turbo set up is different. They will all need a final adjustment once on and running on your sled at your area and altitude. Both are pretty easy once familiar with the programs.
From my knowledge and that isn't much compared to some on here the MCX is a closed set up running a secondary injector set up. The same as the new Hurricane fuel system. These are the best, due to the stock ecu and injection is left alone.
Hope this helps
AJ
Thanks for the clarifications. So, if I understand correctly, the boost controller is nothing more than a pressure regulator, in that it limits the pressure that the waste gate sees? In your example, a waste gate with a 12 pound spring could be "tricked" into allowing more boost by adjusting the boost controller - the system may be producing 14 pounds in reality, but the boost controller regulates what the waste gate is seeing so it actually opens at the higher boost. Do I have it correct?
I think I follow you on the programmers. I see you have a Powderlites kit. So when you got your kit from them, it was pre programmed with a map for your engine set up (stage 1 or 2) and your altitude. Then, once you got it installed and started riding, you went into the program and adjusted fuel flow at different rpm's based on what air/fuel mixtures you were seeing at those respective rpm's?
Also, are you able to program more than a single map onto a programmer and switch betweent hose maps on the trail?
 

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Thanks for the clarifications. So, if I understand correctly, the boost controller is nothing more than a pressure regulator, in that it limits the pressure that the waste gate sees? In your example, a waste gate with a 12 pound spring could be "tricked" into allowing more boost by adjusting the boost controller - the system may be producing 14 pounds in reality, but the boost controller regulates what the waste gate is seeing so it actually opens at the higher boost. Do I have it correct? I think I follow you on the programmers. I see you have a Powderlites kit. So when you got your kit from them, it was pre programmed with a map for your engine set up (stage 1 or 2) and your altitude. Then, once you got it installed and started riding, you went into the program and adjusted fuel flow at different rpm's based on what air/fuel mixtures you were seeing at those respective rpm's? Also, are you able to program more than a single map onto a programmer and switch betweent hose maps on the trail?
You are correct on the boost controller...its simply a nice bleed off valve.

The PL kits come with a map from PL for the rb3 I think but the rb3 isnt a set it and forget it controller and temps and elevation will make maps lean and fat. The sled probably will run fine for the most part but it wont be dailed in all the time unless you have a few different maps for temp and elevation if the changes are drastic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You are correct on the boost controller...its simply a nice bleed off valve.

The PL kits come with a map from PL for the rb3 I think but the rb3 isnt a set it and forget it controller and temps and elevation will make maps lean and fat. The sled probably will run fine for the most part but it wont be dailed in all the time unless you have a few different maps for temp and elevation if the changes are drastic.
Are you able to load multiple maps onto the RB3 and select between them on the trail, or do yo have to connect to your laptop each time you want to change to a different map?
 

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a RB3 needs a computer to do any changes to it, you need to go in a change the cells in the map to adjust it.

a boost controller is used to run more boost than what your gate spring is. example, 10psi spring in the wastegate but with a controller you can run 12-14-16psi, whatever the turbo will make pretty much.

if your still planning on running a stage 1 kit you wont be needing a boost controller unless you plan on running race fuel, your stock fuel system is not going to support more than 5-6psi on pump gas.
 

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The RB-3 can carry two maps that can be switched from via a toggle if you want more maps than yes a computer is needed but two should suffice for trail riding.
 

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The RB-3 can carry two maps that can be switched from via a toggle if you want more maps than yes a computer is needed but two should suffice for trail riding.
that funtionality is not available in "regular" RB3's that someplace like cudney sells though to my knowledge??? you would need to buy the the optional handlebar map switch, wire it up into the harness and then need the rapid bike pro software to enable it was my understanding?? am i wrong on this or can you do all of this with the "free" software??
 

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It doesn't answer any of your questions, but I ride with Burrhead a few times a year. He had a FPP kit with the stock Dobeck box, while I still have my 1200 with the MCX 180 kit. At the time I was running a Pinned TRA, 24/46 gearing and Hindle Muffler, he had a Rage IV, 24/45 gearing, and a FPP Race can. You could switch machines, and aside from ergo's, had trouble telling which kit was on which machine. Both ran really good. I'll admit my experience has really led me to be biased towards the MCX stuff for the 180 kits..however, the MCX kit really shines is on days where conditions or elevations change. The MCX Brain box self adjusts once you have boost properly set for elevation. A/F numbers are always good, the boost fluctuates with changes in barometric pressure (altitude and temperature). From my limited knowledge, the other fuel boxes that come with other 180 kits do not except for the PCV with Auto tune. TO me that is a selling point alone..no need for changing fuel numbers or toying with a boost controller from one day to the next. I adjusted the wastegate rod length a couple times to fine tune..2500 miles later haven't touched it, or any other part of the turbo.

Installation is key..do a good job on the install and you will not have any headaches.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
What does a low boost MCX kit cost now? I heard they have some end of season deals going?
 

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What does a low boost MCX kit cost now? I heard they have some end of season deals going?
I know what I cna get one for up here...but you're down there. Contact Doodoctor. He'll be able to help you out.
 

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that funtionality is not available in "regular" RB3's that someplace like cudney sells though to my knowledge??? you would need to buy the the optional handlebar map switch, wire it up into the harness and then need the rapid bike pro software to enable it was my understanding?? am i wrong on this or can you do all of this with the "free" software??
Any toggle switch will work and wiring is simple. Don't know what can be done with the free software we always had the pro software which by now anyone should be able to download as there's enough of them out there.
 

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Rotax's makes some good points... I ran an fpp kit stage 1 all year had no issues. You pretty much get the boost set and I added a t so I could adjust boost up or down depending on fuel I had. Find someone in your area that sells or installs either kit and you cant go wrong.
 
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