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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
600 SDI -manual start

Need to replace broken capacitor (+) open barrel connector at battery.

At top and bottom of 30A fuse holder, tabs appear to hold each wire.

Fabricated the two pieces in photo to compress both tabs then pull wire out of fuse holder, but no success and don't want to force it.

Should this work, or is there a better way to remove wire/connector from the 30A fuse holder?

Also, appreciate recommendations where to find:

  • Heavy-Duty open barrel connector similar to OEM (dealer had none)
  • Heavy clear shrink tube similar to OEM?

Thanks
 

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I haven't don't this in a while, so this is how I remember it. I think that you need to push the terminals in as far as they go and then insert you unlocking tools from the fuse side and one on each side of the terminal. Probably clearer with a picture.

For the Heavy-Duty open barrel connector and clear shrink tube similar to OEM, I hit the same roadblock. Hopefully someone knows where to source the premium products. I have had too much trouble with the cheapo aftermarket connectors that I gladly pay for the good stuff. I add dielectric grease and it's good for years.

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By the way, the picture shows the orientation of the terminal in the correct die for a proper crimp. The other side of the die that we can't see (bottom of the picture) has the W shape to fold the ears onto the middle of the wire.
 

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Another thing, before working on the electrical you can discharge the Capacitor using a test light. You may have already read this in the Shop Manual, but I thought to mention it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Daag44, your reply gave me more confidence-

Inserted the unlocking tools and was able to grab the terminal with tip of needle nose pliers. A firm tug and popped right out.

Regarding parts/fix, plan to take everything to the shop that fixes my cars and see if they can help, or redirect me to a good resource.

If I hit a dead-end on OEM quality barrel connector and shrink tube, will post again and hope somebody here can help w/that.

Wire is fuse-to-battery, therefore working with the fuse removed so the capacitor is not a factor.

THANKS- appreciate your help!
 

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Nice to see the plan came together!

See the MachZ forum or click here for someone who just recently mentioned their favorite clear shrink tube. Maybe they can help :)
 

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I don't think Grainger or McMasters will have those. We need to find a specialty store. I found F-Crimp is one name given to this type or terminal. I also found a site that called it an European Double Crimp. I just started looking, but once I began to use F-Crimp as the keyword search then a plethora of results came up.

I remember BlueMax speaking to me about crimp vs solder. I couldn't remember the problem until I found an explanation that that I copied below and highlighted in red. Also found a Quality Crimping Handbook in PDF (click the link). Page 30 has interesting pictures of various insulation crimps from Preferred to Marginal quality.

Here is one more web site - Cycle Terminal - that I found interesting as it is dedicated to OEM style terminals and connectors for Motorsports. It also has a section for Crimp Tools.

The following has been copied from WriteOpinions.com

Edit: I just realized it is the same or at least near the same text as Wikipedia (click here).

http://www.writeopinions.com/f-crimp

F-crimp is a type of solderless electrical crimp connection. It is not related to the F connector common in RF equipment.
It is sometimes referred to as open-barrel, which is technically a more general term including crimp types such as Weather Pack and Metri Pack.

F-crimp is a more mechanically robust crimp connection compared to the common barrel-crimp type readily available at retail locations (Radio Shack, Home Depot, etc.). It also has an optional second crimp section that crimps to the insulation, providing strain relief. Because of these characteristics, automobiles use F-crimp almost exclusively. F-crimp was devised to eliminate the need for soldered connections - crimping can be preferred to soldering in mass production because it is easier to reproduce reliable connections. These connections, when made with ratcheting application tooling, provide a solderless, "gas-tight" connection. F-crimp connections are never soldered as application of solder can lead to fracturing of the wire conductor.

The term F-crimp was originally coined by AMP Inc (AMP was a simplification of the company's original name, Aircraft and Marine Products Inc), now Tyco-AMP Electronics, however terminals of this style are currently manufactured by multiple companies. Crimpers are available from multiple sources: manufactures of the connectors typically offer industrial crimp devices for high volume production, and specialty hand tools companies such as Ideal, Eclipse and Paladin offer dies for hand crimpers. For instance, Ideal die #30-586 and Paladin die #2033 are designed for open barrel / F-crimp connectors. Non-AMP crimpers are available in "ratcheting" ("Certi-Crimp") and non-ratcheting versions, but only ratcheting types are suitable for production applications, with non-ratcheting types being suitable for occasional, or "field" repairs.

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Good article. It says that they are never soldered, which is not entirely true. GM has us solder certain airbag terminals. But that's not copper wire. I agree soldering copper wire makes it brittle and prone to break if there is any movement at the joint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Went to NAPA today and they recommended a Sealed Crimp & Solder-Ring Terminal (pic).

$8 for three, but robust/good quality and therefore agreed this will work.

Now have read the latest posts regarding "F-crimp never soldered" -

Should I have any doubts about using this product?

The wire shouldn't move after crimped in the solder-coated receiver.

Thanks for your replies!
 

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Good article. It says that they are never soldered, which is not entirely true. GM has us solder certain airbag terminals. But that's not copper wire. I agree soldering copper wire makes it brittle and prone to break if there is any movement at the joint.
In some circumstances like a fix, it may be better to crimp and solder to ensure a secure and good connection. In the case of the airbag the problem was with a yellow 2/4/6-way connector under the seat that would suffer from a poor connection between the terminals. The added resistance could either trigger a code or even prevent the side and center airbags from deploying. Since the yellow connectors were difficult to repair the next best choice was to remove/snip the yellow connector and crimp splice clips then solder using a butane torch.

It almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about, doesn't? I don't! :) But seriously, whether it is BRP or GM and that issues a Recall Bulletin for any type of a fix, they need to consider all the options. In this case I would guess vibration, corrosion and effective repair. For vibrations I don't see this as an issue under a seat. If it was a connection on the engine I don't think this would have worked.

GM said that corrosion was a possibility. They didn't explain how corrosion could reach under the seat, but we all have driven cars and trucks in the winter to notice our boots carry enough salt and calcium to build a crust. Salt/calcium mixed with the humid air can cause all sorts of problems.

GM also mentioned a possibility of loose terminal connections, so that could have been a manufacturing defect. In either case, corrosion or a loose connection could cause the airbags and pretensioners to not deploy in a crash.

The Effective Repair - I made-up that term - is where I think it gets really interesting. On an assembly line everything is done in accordance to whatever standard to reach the highest possible quality for the most reasonable cost. We know in this case there was a problem. Was it the manufacturing defect? If I was a gambling man I would think the wrong connector or location was chosen for the application. This connector was used for 6 productions years between 2008 and 2013. That is a long time before putting out a Recall Bulletin. This is what leads me to suspect corrosion was likely a larger factor then loose connections.

My guess is the connector was eventually changed in later models, or the harness was changed to re-route the connector differently, or whatever. The point is GM had to work a fix that would be applied by thousands of different certified techs, and perhaps even across various countries. In the end GM have no choice but to choose a method of repair that was cost effective and had proven to work in the past. I don't believe this kind of fix would be done on an assembly line which raises a whole other set of questions. For what we are concerned with I think we can consider the solder or crimp/solder method as reliable, at least to a point.

The Heat Shrink Tube is what I believe is key for any join as it adds a layer of strain relief. However, it can also cause a weak point. If you go back to the second picture in the first post, you can see a whitish discoloration near the end of the heavy duty clear shrink tube. The OEM shrink tube is of higher quality, but it is also more rigid and seems to leave a stress point. It has me thinking that maybe I am not so bad off with the cheaper shrink tubing that I use. Or I could use a rigid piece for the connector and use a more flexible transition piece for added strain relief. I would be hard pressed to find a circumstance when this was needed, but just the thought of it has me considering how to better to route/bend the wires. If we go back to that red wire in the picture with the ring terminal, it bolts to the battery positive terminal. It reminds me that I have seen that wire break in the same spot. We tend the bend the wire to follow a desired path, so each time we do this it creates a kink at its weakest point. In this case it would be near the shrink tube. That alone is enough for me to pay more attention to how I manipulate the wires.

Below is the GM Recall Bulletin that I found. Thanks for sharing a real case from an auto manufacturer. I would not have known to look had you not mentioned it. In return I think we should take another look any Ski-Doo Shop Manual to see how they suggest making a repair to a broken wire.

GM Recall Bulletin for the Side Impact Airbag Connector

https://www.lawsonproducts.ca/images/content/KRSC_GMTSB14030_AD.pdf

Edit: I completely forget the pictures!!!

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They were having us solder F-type terminals on an older passenger side instrument panel airbag inflator recall on HHR's. Crimping on new terminals and then solder before inserting into the connector body.

I've done a ton of the recalls you showed pics of. Funny thing is, our shop never had a problem with those particular connectors. Other vehicles like Impala we have had lots of problems with high resistance connections under the seat and those have never been recalled.

The shrink tube shown with the glue inside is quite rigid once hardened. Therefore the brittle point where the solder is applied is protected from movement that might otherwise cause the joint to break.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Daag44, the text of your apparently since-deleted email questioning my judgement was received in an email notification for new posts to this thread.

Response-

I went to my (large/well-known) Doo dealer for an equivalent crimp: dead-end.

I then posted here, and appreciate your engagement to help find an OEM equivalent, but nobody provided the hoped-for response-

ie: "I found the OEM-quality replacement you're looking for, it's P/N XXX at Acme Corp that I installed 5YR ago and no issues".

Apparently a topic without a large body of knowledge/experience in DooTalk Land -no problem with that.

Apologies, but no confidence that searching websites and ordering parts with no specific DooTalk recommendation guarantees an OEM-quality replacement.

Next stop was the garage that repairs my cars, and they sent me to NAPA saying they had a big selection of quality stuff.

An older and apparently very knowledgeable guy at NAPA strongly recommended the part that I bought, and assured me it was perfectly fine for this application.

I want to do things right, but don't have the base of knowledge you and others on this forum have. Therefore I rely on advice from the experts on these topics.

I certainly did want the OEM-quality replacement, based on a goal of doing things right (not on knowledge of crimps). Obviously, I tried.

I accepted the recommendation of the NAPA guy because the part appears very robust and of good quality.

Stealth Bomber then offered his opinion that this part will work fine, and that was good enough for me.

I didn't find the OEM replacement, but don't think the compromise is "going backwards" far enough to be questionable as an adequate replacement(?)

Any further perspective always welcome, and thanks again.
 

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I appreciated your polite reply and I apologize for the deleted post. Hopefully I was able to explain what was running through my mind when I replied.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Daag44, I've read enough to respect that you're an authority on this topic and therefore hold your opinion in high regard.

No offense taken regarding your deleted post -not even close.

I saw it only as requiring the explanation and request for clarification to verify whether you thought I made a mistake

I appreciate you putting my mind at ease:

I don't think it is going backwards either. To me it is simply a different approach.

Guys like you on this forum taking time to answer Q's deserve nothing but thanks.

THANKS!
 

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I appreciate the feedback. Of course I don't plan on sounding like Cartman anytime soon :)

Youtube content has grown with more quality videos then ever. The one below is from HolleyPerformance and it mentions the possibility of the solder wicking which is something to be careful with. It also mentions applying solder to the tip. It says this only quickly so I thought to mention that the solder will transfer the heat multiple times faster. This is important to avoid wicking and overheating the wire shielding. You can also Google prevent solder wicking for some good read. Using the correct tools is just as important. The connectors that you chose require a butane torch for rapid localized heat. National Standard Parts Associates, Inc. has a good instructional video specifically for the crimp/solder terminals.


 

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Here is one more video for the collection.

Easily & Safely Clean Electrical Connectors for Pennies
By 3rd Millennium

 
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