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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Post may have been misleading but due to the recent concerns about ski-doo's supposed problems I thought I would share my thoughts with everyone. As you all know next year marks a significant change in the epa requirements for sleds and fortunately for us ski-doo has answered the issue last year allready with sdi 2 strokes. everyone talks about issues with the sdi and switching to yammi's four stroke or other brands. here is where we get to the point i'd like to make, many of you may believe yammi's four stroke is epa compliant, this is not true yammi must fuel inject it next year to meet emission's requirements and since they haven't been testing the waters the last 2 years this will be a new system you seem to be assuming will be reliable, I ask you why you would be willing to believe something unproven will be better than what you have? As for cat they have no compliant sleds at this point and will have a new system of some sort also which we know nothing about and our fellow friends at poo have crossfire injection on the 900 this year which will have to be expanded into the entire line-up by next year. We should feel greatful that ski-doo has tested the waters and prepared us for 06 all other brand fanatics are gonna deal with the unknown next year but we allready know what to expect with some upgrades to perfect the system I believe we will be better off for now than all the new systems coming from the others. Thank you for reading this, I believe ski-doo has taken alot of criticism for being bold and feeling the waters out ahead of time instead of waiting till the last minute.
 

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Liquid,brp didn't prepare us ,some of us here were test beds for them.
With alot of missed riding.
They need to do more testing before releasing their products.
Or at least have a different policy with there dealers on loaner sleds available to people that have back ordered parts and what not.

My biggest complaint with these newer sleds is we can't effectively work on them.Too much electronics that handcuffs us to a dealer.
Hopefully not for long though !

Rich
sorry kinda went off subject in your thread.
 

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Doo you really belive that Cat and Yammie have been dooing nothing???
. Just because they haven't offered it yet dont mean there behind the 8 ball.

They new about the 06 regs the same time as brp. Your bumped your head if you think they are scrambling to put a 06 compliant sled together.


Im sure they have been testing for a few years now, and what ever they come out with will be comparible to the sdi...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
It's nice to see you all have so much faith in the unseen, but let's not forget that ski-doo has had sdi on the boats since the late ninety's so the fact yammi inject's a bike, another warm weather machine doesn't mean the system will work on a sled. Cold weather brings alot of different issues to the table, I never suggested cat hasn't been working on a system I merely suggested it would be new to the public, when testing in controlled conditions you don't get the same result's. And if cat does such a good job of testing first then why were there 15-17 recalls on the 03 f-7, my how quick we are to forget. I am not pardoning ski-doo, but rather offering a different angle to the argument besides there seem's to be a small group of problem's compared to the amount of people on doo-talk . the majority here are pretty happy with the sleds.
 

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Yammy has been advertising their RX1 is EPA compliant for 2006 all along, as far as I recall, and that was with carbs. To meet 2010 and beyond, they needed EFI, and as someone mentioned, they already had an EFI system for the RX1 motor when they first released it. They just saved the added cost till they needed it for emissions. Doo has done the most work at saving the 2 stroke from extinction in snowmobiles so far. Time will tell if it worked.
 

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I'm with you Liquid. The Polaris CrossFire engine had not passed '06 emmisions last time I checked either. Who knows if it will pass. Cat has had injection for years, but only throttle body, which does NOTHING for emmisions. A lot/most of the SDI's, including mine, have been just about perfect.

I think there are a lot of people who just like to bitch and complain. Given the task at hand, I think BRP has done a nice job. Just think, we could all be driving those fat 4 stroke pigs. No thanks - I'll keep my REV and continue to enjoy the benefits of SDI.
 

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Nice thread.


I personally believe that Poo is going to be in big trouble in the coming few years, maybe also AC but to a lesser extent. Doo is the only manu with an EPA compliant 2 stroke. By two methods, injection and carbs. That is quite a marketing tool, in this sport. If the others have it, what are they waiting for? The longer they hold off on releasing it, the more it will hurt them. If they don't have any in their new model intros in the next couple of weeks, they will be bringing them out at the last possible minute next season. Not the best of circumstances, to be trying to impress the buying public while getting the kinks out, because if they don't get it absolutely right the first time, they have nothing else to offer. Except 4 strokes. Poo only has the Frontier. How many IQ Frontiers do you think they'd sell? Very interesting days ahead indeed.

But all this is beside the point if we don't have any damned snow!!!!
 

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NH-2004-600SDI said:
The Japanese are known for quality (i.e. Toyota, Honda, Yamaha, etc). The US may have planted the seeds of the Japanese industrial revolution, but the Japanese perfected it, and have a strong philosophy of continuous improvement and quality.

[snapback]316462[/snapback]​
Don't be so quick to confuse quality with leading edge technology. If you perform teardown studies on the above mentioned manufacturers you will notice that most of the tech used is not leading edge. The US OEM's think that leading edge is best, but customers want failsafe. Two totally different items. The above mentioned manuf. have given what the customer wants, quailty not technology. They hold the tech. back until it is proven and thus not leading edge in most cases. When you study the trends and manf. principles you will see how brp is actiing like US OEM's and putting out leading edge tech and we are proving out the tech, this will work for short term gains, but suffer in long term prosperity. Most consumers don't care who was first, they only care about who is more reliable. I am glad that brp has taken the chance, but did they need too? That is the question.

I love this tread. It is a great one and thus the reason for DOOTalk being one of my most favorite places to visit and visit often.

 

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You ain't seen nothing yet coming from Skidoo, SDI is a stepping stone or did you think Skidoo has been sitting on it's hands and watching.

Face it there is anything out there now or in the near future with a better set up than the SDI system, sure there are a few quirks that have tobe ironed out, however a great majority of the SDIs are running great, I've had 2 of them and no problems what so ever, I know many sledders I know and run with are coming over to the SDI system from all brands.
 

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Ski Doo has been testing the next step. My guess is they could already implement it if needed. SDI will improve. Its probably opperating with a 95% success rate right now. 90% of the complaints come from 20% of people or products. Probably only 5% of these are actual mech. failers and not related to outside imputs ie. fuel quality, spark plug probs. oil issues, dealer prep, ect.

Also with regards to epa 06, you have to realize the epa issues clean credits. You can still build and sell non compliant machines as long as a percent of overall sales is compliant. So 06 will be a staring point with a lower % of sales requiring compliance. This will give other OEMs time to become compliant.
 

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My 2 cents and guesses


SkiDoo
I agree that SkiDoo has done a good job on getting ahead of the curve...sorry for the group that had to deal with the issues, I sat back until the PTEK came out before getting onto a 06 EPA sled. I don't believe that BRP has to sell a single EPA compliant sled this year with all of the bonus points they have built up to now

PTEK will be around until 2009
SDI will be around until 2009
E-TEC will come out in 2007
4 Stroke supercharged for touring will come out in 2008

Polaris
- As others have mentioned, the frontier better be selling well or they could be in trouble.
900 CFI will be 2006 compliant in 2006...maybe
600 CFI should be compliant in 2006...this is more important as they need to get to the 50% of sales thing for 2006
More 4 strokes/car engines...R&D at Polaris means buy something already made

Artic Cat
- Their 4 strokes seem to be selling better than Poo's with the Turbo but still don't have anything else for 2006 until the release Mar 11th. Weird since they have been in the EFI game for a while.
EFI with knock sensor 2006 compliant in 2006
More 4 stroke turbos
750 Suzuki bike engine in 2007…may come in 2006 but would be limited edition.

Yamaha
- Some of their 4 strokes are 2006 ready some are not. More fine tuning will bring them up to speed. They are trying to get the weight down but it will cost them $$$ in high tech materials.
EFI Genesis 2006
EFI everything in 2007
Turbo from factory in 2007

I guess only time will tell
 

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Are some of you guys forgetting that BRP has the rights to Orbital and Fitch Direct Injection systems? Both arctic cat and Polaris where working with Johnson and Evinrude on the fitch system when Bombardier bought them out, Yamaha only had its HPDI. If there is a leader in Direct Injection technology it is bombardier hands down.
 
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