Ski-Doo Snowmobiles Forum banner

Gentlemen Projects

29K views 316 replies 31 participants last post by  Daag44 
#1 ·
My dad and I completed changing the head on his riding mower. I thought it was the perfect father/son project, and wondered what others have been doing.
 
#215 ·
Protect those shingles from dirt and water! Once the packs get open, and dirt or sand gets on the asphalt sticky strips underneath, they never will stick down well. I hope you can wait..... shingling in hot weather makes them stick well. But you may not be in a high wind area, so it may not matter all that much.

You are not alone... I got a whole metal roof delivered at the end of June in WY, and it is still sitting. Too much wind and too many guys walking off the project. (very few workers and resources here....) So it faces a full Rocky Mountain winter with no roofing on the sheathing. Fortunately, it is water resistant sheathing, so it should be OK if the tape at the panel joints holds.
I appreciate the heads-up. I am guessing they have been outdoor in rain for some time, although maybe not since they were sold during our long dry spell. I did check a few loose packs after last nights rain and they seem to be fine. The way they are packaged is each two shingles are back to back with the clean tar paper side against each other. Whenever I have doubt that they might not stick well enough such as late October or November install, I add a dab of pitch. It's a lot more work, but it's my guarantee that the shingles will stick. The wind over here hits a maximum of 90 kph (55 mph) gust, but this is abnormally rare like once every few years. I have checked the stickiness after a month of installation in November and they were not too sticky, so I do worry about this. The ones that I add pitch are well glued and will never move.

My main concern is for those tongue and groove boards on the back side, and the 1/2 plywood sheeting in the front. The plywood side feels a little better than the back side, but not by much. It needs 5/8, but this is tough to bend at the bottom where the roof has a shallower slope. A dozen 1/8 saw cuts along the backside would have done the trick, but that's not what I have to work with. It has held for nearly 50 years, so it should be fine for another 30 years with the much better shingles that I scored.

I am sorry to hear about the tin not going up. I might have good advise for this that I picked-up from a contractor who was doing a standing seam roof down the road. I was seeing the roof covered with the special type of membrane needed for tin which remained there for over 6 months. The next time I saw them working on the roof I stopped and asked how long could they keep the roof without tin and how did they keep the membrane secured well enough for the wind? The answer is that the membrane was glued and it could stay on like this for a year without issue. It only needs two people, and in a pinch it could probably be done alone.

The trick is having a safe platform to work on. I use 12" planks to work on the roof held by solid triangles that are exceptionally well secured to the sheeting. My reach is roughly 6', so over the 21' that I need to work on, I set three rows of platforms to reach the top. My dad came up with the brilliant idea to build these triangles. Our first attempt was make out of metal as what everyone seems to use. We tried it and found it was terrible idea. Everytime we walked on the planks the nails that held the top of the metal triangles wanted to pull out which was not reassuring. So my dad came-up with the idea of using 2X12s to cut into triangles and using tin to secure the triangles to the roof for the added flex. From there I came-up with the idea to add a piece of plywood to add stability to the triangle sitting against the roof.

To this day I think it was the most brilliant thing that we thought-up as a father/son project. They have been used multiple times since 1998 to work on all our roofs and are still solid/safe. By the way he was 62 when thought of this. Unfortunately that level thinking has slowly gone downhill which I have a hard time with. Funny thing, he is old enough to be your father, so that would make you my older brother lol I laugh because that is how I see the majority of you on DooTalk, older, smarter and far more experienced. I don't think it can get any better for me. I remember my father telling me when he was in his 50s that he felt being as his prime. Now that I am seeing it for myself, it feels like having enough life experience for a solid background and the ability to listen to those with more experience, and help those with less experience.

Unseen in the pictures, there are three standard nails in a row that are holding the 3/8 piece of plywood to the triangular piece. Some have 1/2 plywood, but it doesn't really matter. The 64 mm (2" 1/2) wide by 0.13mm thick strip of sheet metal is nailed twice in line through the 1/4" plywood and through the triangular piece. So that's a solid/safe piece. The portion that secures this piece onto the roof are two roof nails across the 2 1/2" strip of tin.

The third picture is of the rings that I bought to install near the top of the roof to pass a rope and secure myself to. I have two safety harness and one mounting climbing harness that is good for three workers, and my neighbour has two more so I am all set to work securely. I never bothered in the past, but my arborist experience and age has taught me to be safer.

Ruler Wood Office ruler Tool Rectangle


Brown Wood Rectangle Floor Flooring


Brown Wood Road surface Floor Flooring
 
#216 · (Edited)
Definitely put 5 or 6 nails in each shingle. Just be careful walking on the old roofing after a while it gets slick with all the gravel getting on it. If it’s steep enough for staging it’s a little safer. If it’s a walkable roof i wood still run one row of roof brackets and planks on the bottom off the roof to catch you if you were to slip. If you have access to a roofing nailer I would try it out. With experience you can tell by the sound it makes if it is into solid wood when it shoots. You can feel it in your wrist also. Are you stripping the old shingles off and if so what are you using?
It's a steep roof. Without measuring, my father remembers it to being 37°. It is definitely not walkable other than the first 3 feet with a shallow slope. The last time I set the first row of platform between the first two rows of membrane, so about 30" from the bottom. It's a perfect height for me to carry the shingles from the scaffolding platforms to the first set of platforms. From there I can easily reach two rows of membrane (90") where I set the next level of platforms at ~10' from the bottom (11' from the top). The third row of platforms is set at ~15' which leaves me 6' to stretch to the ridge to complete the last section. For the last course of shingles that I turn over the ridge, I straddle over the ridge to nail onto the other side.

Of course if I start from the top then I may bring the platforms higher to be conformable to do the upper part and the ridge. The lower part of the attic vent is ~28" from the ridge, so if I straddle one 30" row of membrane over the ridge (~15" each side) and one row down of ~30" on the back side for a total of 45" on the back side, it will clear the vent by ~7" which should be plenty to cover over the old shingles without worrying. That 7" will also provide more than enough to shave/waste 3" to mend into the lower portion.

To help make the nailing go easier by avoiding the tongue&groove areas, I am thinking of measuring the present pattern that I made work in 1998. 30 min of measuring and making chalk lines could save me a lot of work. The cool thing with starting at the top is that I only need to worry about the first 30" on the back side. It's 45" (half of one row of membrane + one full row down the back), but I am not nailing into the last half of the lower section of membrane until I can remove the plastic to mend it with the lower section.

I don't know if that was anywhere clear enough, but I think that I understand it well enough to make a crude graphic/pictorial of it. The depiction below is crude, but hopefully it provides a good idea of what I am thinking to start with the first 45" on the back side while I cover enough of the old shingles on the front side to keep it water proof.

FYI, fong = front lol
 
#217 ·
A lot of times I have done the last 2 rows on the back and capped the roof but nailing the first row at the top so you can pick it up and finish stripping and shingling that side later. It will save you reaching on the other side when you get there. I’m glad most of my roofing days are behind me now.
 
#218 ·
I am hoping to get my roofing days over by next year. One last stretch for 2023/2023 and the next time I will be too old to even contemplate a repeat lol I wasn't happy to be lifting 80-85 lb packs twice, once to load and another to unload. That's heavy! Lifting is a heavy weight is one thing, but can the back sustain it? For me it is an unknown until the back gives out and I am out of work for 2 to 3 weeks. This can mean that I am in the beginning or middle of the roof and I cannot finish, and being without pay for the last part of my season before I wrap-up for winter. Fortunately I no longer have a boss, so if I need an hour to load and two hours to unload, that's the amount of time it will take. The only thing the new boss (me) tells me is to take time to avoid getting hurt, but get it done!

I will be carrying two full packs of shingles in a wheelbarrow to the ladder that leads to the scaffolding, and carry them up 1/3 pack at a time. My boss tells me this is the way to go to climb the ladder to save my back, so I listen to him lol Carrying a 22Kg bag of water softener salt is no easy enough, but it's 45 lbs and I am holding it against my belly. Even a half of pack of shingles is 40+ lbs that I need to carry on one shoulder. I would rather do 3 trips @ 26 lb each. Even 26 lbs is heavy to transfer from the scaffolding to the first platform. It only takes one false movement and the back goes out. I just moved over 150 packs @ 80-85 lbs a piece, so I can do the work, but it needs to be done smart otherwise I am out.

A month ago I was done my day and got hurt at the tail end of the day by moving two scaffolding pieces of 5'X5' that weigh 40 lbs. It is a little less than one 20kg bag of water softener salt and half of a pack of shingles, so it's light. I walked the first one a few hundred feet into storage and felt odd compression in my back. By the time I moved the second one, my back was hurting and it took over two weeks to return to normal. I took a week off and continued my work very carefully. I just spent a week carrying over 150 packs of shingles in an out of trailer, so I am obviously back to full strength, but I constantly need to be attentive and careful.

For doing the roof, I am 25 years older then the last time, so I am hoping to be that much smarter about it. I really appreciate your help on this.
 
#219 ·
The synthetic underlayment would be an issue if you do not have good roof venting. But if the roof is well venting underneath, then it ought to consistently dry out to the inside.

With an extra ladder, maybe you could rig up a shingle elevator.

Yes, 37 degrees is steep! Be careful.

Not your issue, but the roof out here in WY is using the ZIP system. See here: ZIP System® Roof Sheathing | Huber Engineered Woods The outer coating is water resistant and the seams in the panels get taped. I chose it on purpose in case we got stuck. (Labor is hard to find in this rural area.) And it held fine up for almost a year on the garage (built first) before the metal roof got installed, and would have gone longer. I considered putting peel & stick over the whole house roof, but the fierce winds are a real issue and getting it to stick this late in the season is pretty much a crap-shoot.
 
#220 ·
The synthetic underlayment would be an issue if you do not have good roof venting. But if the roof is well venting underneath, then it ought to consistently dry out to the inside.

With an extra ladder, maybe you could rig up a shingle elevator.

Yes, 37 degrees is steep! Be careful.

Not your issue, but the roof out here in WY is using the ZIP system. See here: ZIP System® Roof Sheathing | Huber Engineered Woods The outer coating is water resistant and the seams in the panels get taped. I chose it on purpose in case we got stuck. (Labor is hard to find in this rural area.) And it held fine up for almost a year on the garage (built first) before the metal roof got installed, and would have gone longer. I considered putting peel & stick over the whole house roof, but the fierce winds are a real issue and getting it to stick this late in the season is pretty much a crap-shoot.
That looks like a pretty good seal for the winter. There may still be good weather ahead. Has the time expired to being too late?
 
#221 ·
If you are talking about here in WY, snow showers are in the forecast here in 2 days time....! We are at over 8,100 feet of elevation.... on an exposed knob, so wind is the problem. By noon, the wind gusts are up and handling metal roof sheets is somewhere between a problem and impossible.. not to mention personnel safety with a 20' drop. So you get to work half a day on roofing at this particular location. This roof will take about 50-60 man days so could be done in 2-3 weeks of straight good weather by 3 experienced men, but that means 4-5-6 weeks in this situation. I only have myself and one other guy who are experienced so we're short a man. And since the roof sheets run vertical in full strips, bottom to top, you cannot put walk-boards below you. I depend on a lift under the work work area.

Getting roof time in November may be only 2-3-4 days and by mid-November, it is real winter here. I froze my rear end off in mid November 2 years ago taping up the garage roof ZIP sheathing.... it was 27F for the high and a strong gusting wind. My wife was watching in the truck with instructions on how to dial 911.
 
#227 · (Edited)
BTW, what membrane/underlayment are you using?
I just go to BMR and get rools of self-ahering roof underlayment, but I did find the product and link with a picture. The bottom surface is a smooth and self-adhering. The top side is roughly/stony. The top 3" of the top side is smooth for the next course to stick to it. This is about how technical I reached with this product lol

I believe the version you would need has a top aluminum coating to reflect heat and cost maybe double or more for no good reason.

BMR Self-adhered Underlayment

Rectangle Household supply Cylinder Font Metal
 
#233 ·
I just go to BMR and get rools of self-ahering roof underlayment, but I did find the product and link with a picture. The bottom surface is a smooth and self-adhering. The top side is roughly/stony. The top 3" of the top side is smooth for the next course to stick to it. This is about how technical I reached with this product lol

I believe the version you would need has a top aluminum coating to reflect heat and cost maybe double or more for no good reason.

BMR Self-adhered Underlayment

View attachment 2041614
OK, that looks like pretty standard stuff. Ought to work good for your 3 tab shingles.

Yes, I have some underlayment made for metal roofing which has a woven synthetic fabric layer on top, which I think prevents the metal roof from sticking, so the roofing can move freely when it expands and contracts. The product I mentioned, Roofnado PSU HT, has sort of rubber or vinyl impregnated layer on top, with a fabric-y texture, that does the same thing.

Many of the newer synthetic underlayments can also be used under metal roofs, IIRC.
 
#228 ·
Yes, I considered the added membrane (Roofnado is good stuff), and it would go on faster. But now that the cold is setting in, getting it to stick is a problem so it would have to be put down with cap nails. (Which I can do quickly, having the right hammers.) But if it does not stick well, then it depends only on the cap nails, and the wind here is hurricane force at times; it is just the nature of the high mountains and terrain. My neighbor recorded a gust of 98 mph here just 3 years ago, 20' from our house site. And the part of the build challenge here is just making sure that material is kept protected and properly secured simply so that it does not blow away! We have had siding and sheeting blow off the site more than once...
Those are winds that absolutely need extra care. That was the main reason that I plugged the idea for a glued membrane. There are nails used to ensure each course remains in place while the glue takes hold. Once the glue is cured there will be no amount of wind that can blow-off the membrane without also blowing-off the roof.

Once I was told about the gluing, I actually asked the gentlemen what is done with the membrane when the roof needs to be replaced, let's say after 50 or plus years? He replied the membrane was permanently glued and no way to ever get it off unless the sheeting was removed along with it and good luck with that.
 
#235 ·
OK, that looks like pretty standard stuff. Ought to work good for your 3 tab shingles.
I have NO 3 tab shingles. That stuff is garbage imo. What I scored is architectural shingles, IKO Royal Estate (Shadow Slate color). Each pack is ~$70 including tax when on special order, or ~$60 for a nice brown color that is currently in stock in a BMR warehouse. I would have preferred the Harvest Slate that is brown, but Shadow Slate is good enough for the price per quality that I am getting.

I am not convinced that the quality is any better then the ~$47 packs I was originally planning to get for IKO Cambridge, but maybe I got lucky on that too. In any case it will look awesome compared what is on the roof now lol

For a total cost of $1,800 with transport I scored a total of 130 packs + several odd color packs for the starter course and many more hip&ridge that will only be good for the ridge. I have enough Royal Estate for my house and garage, and more than enough Cambridge for my shed and then some. Round it off to $50 a pack with all the extras, 130 X $50 is $6,500. I consider that to be a good score.

The only hick is that I only have enough for the house without accounting for the % loss. So I need to figure how much I need from the darker packs for the garage to cheat for the bottom courses on the back side to have enough for the front. I am going to start with the back for many reasons with the main one is that it is more urgent. The front has higher percentage of loss due to the dormers. It will be risky to start with the back side and then be missing a few rows at the top of the front side, but it needs to be done. The front side requires a lot more prep work around the dormers which push comes to shove I could leave until next year because it is was well sealed. I just need to figure the waste for the front.

Dormers are complicated. I start with the full shingle that I want to cross the ridge, and then figure what I need to meet the edge of the dormer with a reasonably size piece, and repeat for each course. With no nails near the ridge it needs to be though through carefully. Getting the membrane to cover the ridge and mend with the peak of the dormer is difficult enough. Getting the shingles to work in the peak of the dormers and to weave it with the roof is painstaking. I need to figure how to cut each shingle, where to nail it, and apply a lot of pitch to seal it properly. Ideally I would have a model to think this through carefully at ground level. The cool thing is that I already have a model with what I did in 1998, so I will be paying a lot of attention to these sections during shingle removal and take enough pictures to help me do the same in a shorter period. And this is the easy part. There is a lot of work needed around the walls of the dormers which will require more time than to re-shingle the front side and far more time than I have left unless November proves to have a good week which is possible.

The cool thing about writing this out is that I am beginning to remember every step from 25 years ago and how I worked out the complications. The ideal time would have been a few weeks ago with perfect no rain whether, yet it is what allowed me to transport all the roofing shingles that I needed. And I still need to complete my Autumn work in the next two weeks. Mon-Tue-Wed-Thu appears to be a good time to get the backside done.
 
#236 ·
Scaffolding Setup

Due to a large balcony I need to find a setup that will work well. In comparison, the font side is a no brainer, just put it together and be done. For backside I am having to think of too many things, so I decided to write it out to help me think through it.

The height of the roof where the shingles are on the edge is anywhere from 11' at one end, and 11' 4" at the other. The balcony is 3' and that fits 2 pieces of scaffold. This leaves me at least 3 options with the use of adjustable legs. Each bottom piece will have legs to make it so much easier to adjusts, so that's decided.

I can start with a 3' ground row to match the balcony and then add either 5' or 6' pieces for the second row to reach 8' or 9'. Legs props it up to 18" if needed. The 6' pieces are called doorways. These are the ones you have seen setup along sidewalks to allow a path for the pedestrians through. They are normally higher than 6' and wider, but it's the same thing. Considering I care for an elder, having this path is a big plus. The 4'X10' crosses used for the 6' are the same as for the 5', but they are set 1' higher so it is even easier pass under which is another plus. If I set the legs at 1' then I gain another foot to make it that much easier to pass under one cross to reach the corridor. So that's a no brainer.....well sort of lol

Setting aside accessibility, the most important thing is workability. I am starting alone and I will get help at the end of the day which is a non issue. The problem is my back can give out at any time, but unlikely if I keep a reasonably good working position. This is the reason that I spend so much time planning a setup that will allow me to complete the work. The best position to begin the first courses is to have my feet positioned roughly 3' below the roof, so around 9' above ground, 6' above the balcony. For my back, I am often using knee pads to work lower, so I could set myself even higher and still make it work.

The second thing for workability is that one of my helping hands has trouble with the transition between the platform and roof. So once I get the first 4' or 5' , if my setup allows me to raise the platforms to at least match the roof and ideally a little higher, then that would be golden. And what's preferable for him is also better for everyone's safety.

So far I am thinking to start with the most comfortable height for me to start the first courses on my own, and then add a 3' section to allow for an easier transition to the roof. I am used to building scaffolding up to 4 sets high on my own, so adding second section above the balcony or even a third section above ground is easy enough. It's 20min work, but the greater the effort to more I need to multiply the amount of time to account for rest and things not going to plan. In this case I would account for an hour. And this is something that I will need to do alone before any help arrives. Otherwise there is the highest risk/chance that there will be pushback/persuasion to skip this step in favor of gaining time. It's the human nature of cutting corners that I want to avoid fighting against.

My main goal is to focus on safety and to get the first two courses of membrane covered in shingles before getting any help. This way I will have time to experience the issues and know precisely where I going so we can bang it out as a team. When there is 3 or 4 more people helping, there is zero time for me to think anything through. At this point it needs to be natural. It is very easy to reach the last shingle and be left with an end piece of shingle that is 1" to 4" that does not work. It needs to be predicted prior to reaching the second to last shingle. It's a no brainer for anyone who does this work on a regular basis, but quite another when doing this work once every 10 years. The more people helping, the more chiefs there are and the crazier it gets. In this situation, none of them care to be a chief, but if the situation is left to call for one, then things can get messy. My responsibility is to ensure that such situations are kept to a bare minimum. They just want to help to bang it out fast, so making that possible becomes my responsibility.

If you are interested in reading the amount of focus I give for myself on safety in high risk work, see post #252 of the Have you been following thread. If I were to be doing this on my own, I would be pounding nails until I no longer feel good about it. That could go one for a long time in the dark. Knowing myself I cannot predict how long I can sustain the work nor how long I will want to keep going. It's an unknown that I know to prepare myself for. The tricky part is that I cannot pull this off while all the helpers hear me banging at night without being worried, so that will not work. I could have done this, but not after asking for help.

What I can do is ensure my setup is awesome and get as many people to help with a reasonable amount of safety that begins with the scaffolding setup. Hence why I am giving a ridiculous amount of focus on the scaffolding and safety. I predict a minimum of 3 people shingleling/nailing and one person carting the shingles. We may reach 4 people shingleling, so that speeds up things considerably.

Below is to give a gross idea of time using 30 seconds to bang each shingle. It takes 15 seconds by hand, so I doubling to account for whatever.

21' roof spance high X 12" = 252" / 5.625" = 46 rows of shingles.
40' roof wide X 12" = 480" / 41" per shingle = 12 shingles per row.
@ 2 shingles per minute = 120 shingles per hour per person.
120 shingles per person / 12 per row = 10 rows per hour.
3 people = 30 rows per hour.
4 people = 40 rows per hour.

So if I focus on setup and preparation, the roof is shingled in one hour with help. Double that time to account for rolling out the membrane and making sure we avoid nailing into the tongue&groove portion of the boards, it is still only 2 hours. Then account another hour for the unexpected, but I already started and reached at least 5 to 10 rows, so that's taken into account. So all I need is 2 hours of help to bang it out to the top. At top dollar of $50/hr, that's $400.

As a comparison, installation cost by the pros is roughly $150 per pack of singles. Assuming 30 packs for the backside, that's $4,500 plus tax = ~$5.175. At $47 a pack with tax that's around $1,500 for shingles and one row of membrane on the bottom, so that's $3,000 for labour. So paying $400 for two hours of help at top dollar is a no brainer.

Setup is everything for this to work. The amount of planning is ridiculous, but it is within my free time. There is actually another segment for the fascia boards that has required another day of planning. That one will be tricky to fit into my schedule, but knowing I can fit the backside of the shingling in a day is a huge weight off of my shoulders. I will do my best to take pictures along the way to show the value of the setup.
 
#237 ·
Scaffolding Setup #2

So far I am thinking of a 3' ground base to meet up to the balcony, and a 6' section to reach 9' (3' under the roof) to begin the first courses. Then I add 3' sections to reach 12' and easily bridge the 11' 4" roof. With the 18" legs I can reach as high as 13' 5" which is at least 2' above the roof. Considering the legs hold a minimum of 2" rise and a maximum of 18". I can play with the initial height anywhere from 9' 2" (3' + 6' + 2") to 10' 6" (3' + 6' + 18"). The adjustable legs is what allows 5' sections that I have plenty of to be used to accomplish the same result, but at the expense of removing the corridor. The corridor does hold all that much importance if it remains up for a short period of time. The legs raise the 5' pieces a foot which also allows for easier access to get under the crosses, so that too works. The more use of my own 5' pieces also lowers the amount of transport needed.

Regardless of the 5' or 6' sections used, each section is already getting an adjustable leg which provides a lift of 2" to 18". So a 5' piece can be raised to the equivalent to a 6' piece. The loss is a corridor, but the benefit is having many less pieces to transport both ways. It also provides the benefit to start a little lower to ease the install the first courses of shingles.

The final decision will be made tomorrow in late afternoon, but I think to have reached a decision to use my own 5' pieces and rent a number of 3' sections. I already have four 3' pieces, but two of them are used for an outdoor workbench which is priceless all year around even in the coldest of times. It's a huge 10' by 40" workbench that requires 2min to setup and 2min to set away.
 
#238 ·
Scaffolding setup #3

Today I got everything that I need for the scaffolding including three tarpaulins (tarps) for the ground cover to catch all the bits of old shingles and loose nails..... Without tarps, the amount of work to clean-up is retarded. I have a tarp for the balcony, and one at each end for the ground cover.


Customer Service

Having written it out last night made it so much simpler for me today. Below is the order I had when I walked into the rental shop.

4 X 10' platforms/19" planks
2 X 7' platforms/19" planks

8 X 36" scaffolding

8 braces 10' X 2'
4 braces 7' X 2'
2 braces 7' X 4'

8 adjustable legs


I walked in 20 min before closure, but I had a detailed order that could not be made simpler. I figured 5min tops to place the order, and 5 to 7min to load my trailer, so plenty of time to get out before closure. At the end of the say the guys are were tired so I wanted to make it simple and be out of there at least 5min before closing. I thought it would be easy, but it wasn't.

The guy at the rental place had an exceptionally difficult time to place my order. I have dealt with him before and he's always been cool except for today. I started with 4 X 10' platforms and when I reached the second item for 2 X 7' platforms he said no no no, I need to know how many pieces of scaffolds you need. At this point I knew there was a short circuit from him being tired or whatever, and I am was thinking this may go south fast. So I answer 8 pieces of 36" scaffolding. That alone took him 10 min to sort it out in the system because he kept choosing the 30" X 5' and having trouble deleting the item to add the correct one. After 5min I could tell this was going to take a long time, so I went to the bathroom. I got back a minute later and he says ok I have the 8 pieces of 30" scaffolding. I say no, it's 36", and he tells me it is the same thing. At this point I suspect he did get it right but just said it wrong which is to be expected considering the last 10 min he kept looking at the 30", so a non issue.

We get into the order for the braces and that's when he got even further confused lol The guy must of have had a long day and wanted to be home a hour earlier, and that I do understand. From my perspective I had a straightforward order that just needed to be ganged out into the system so we could load and be out of there before closing. But instead it was one error followed by another which was openly pinned on me personally. As soon as we get into the braces it begins to tell me how complicated my order is. I reply, how can this be so with having a straightforward detailed list that is easy to follow??? He repeats it is complicated order, and I reply no, there is a problem with the system and I am being patient. Obviously he is having trouble choosing the correct parts, but I am I am purposely blaming the system to avoid blaming him personally like he is doing to me because there is no end to that. There is always another day and a better time to address these conflicts, and they do need to addressed. This one will need to wait for a better day, but it will happen.

A long time ago I was taught the customer is always right. It's the deepest pile of BS, but one that I have learned to use to train many trainees, just not in the same way BS way that I was taught. That line was devised to curve the growing bad habits in customer service. I would spend weeks in training to find the real examples to show what this actually meant in real time. It was mostly an attitude to avoid identifying the client as root of all problems which only served to trigger a whole other level of aggression that quickly got out of hand. When I got to train a large team on my own, I had devised a system that allowed different people to become instant supervisors. Like anyone else I too would get into trouble, so I would ask the client if he/she could hold while I would get a supervisor that was more experienced and knowledgeable. Then I would find someone who was well trained to help me out.

Just the difference it attitude would smooth things out. Those on my team who held too much pride to seek help before it was too late would tend to make things multiple times worse. Some of them were so bad that we could hear them get louder and louder until they put their clients on hold to bang their desk drawers or cabinet doors out of frustration. It could get pretty loud. I remember clients asking me what was all that racket and apologizing for the construction noise...

This past Friday I received a call from my mobile provider asking if I was satisfied with the service. I immediately answered I was not because I was getting billed twice what I should be. The gentlemen was polite and took the time to look it up and found there was an obvious problem with my 2 gig plan which he found that I was no longer given this allowance. So all the data that I was using in the month was being billed as an extra cost. He said there was nothing he could do, but the AR (Accounts Receivable) dept could sort it all out. So he transferred me which sent me into an automated service that schedules a call back. An hour later I was in the restaurant when I got the return call from AR. Well this guy would not hear anything about what the previous gentlemen told me and kept asserting that there was nothing wrong other than me using too much data. He kept repeating that I was among the many who preached consuming less data than their allowance. I tried to tell him that someone from his own company had called me first, then found the problem and sent me to him to have it corrected, but he would not hear a word of it like I was a lying lol

The number of times he told me how I wasn't the only one and it was a common issue where folks overused their allowable data was unnerving. He was essentially repeating that I was at fault. When the phone call ended I got up and apologized to everyone in the restaurant. I didn't need to tell them the story because they overheard everything and it was not pretty. The waitress told me not to worry because it wasn't that bad nor disruptive, but it was entertaining lol

I did end the call by acknowledging that I should perhaps make a bigger effort to follow my data consumption. I was doing this to help him close the call without too much anxiety which is really bad for your health. Unfortunately he has not heard the last of this story. I will give him a fair chance to correct himself, and that will be the end of that story.

So the following day I had trouble registering to the mobile application and called for help. I reached this lade who no only fixed the registration in real time, she also looked into my account and found the same problem the first gentlemen did. She says to me that she sees the problem clearly and just needs more time to follow my account to see how long this has been going and fix it. An hour later she calls be back and has it all sorted out.

Out of four people in four days, two of them acknowledged a problem that needed to be fixed, while the other two firmly believed that I was the source of the problem. I have apologized a number of times to folks on DooTalk for being an ass. It only counts if I mean it, so I make the effort to mean it.

I have noticed that some of you on DooTalk have an innate sense for this, and this is something that I have payed attention and learnt from you. I cannot change who I am, but I can adopt better ways. You may be surprised with how much I learnt from you over the years.
 
#239 ·
I read your post above, about the customer service. and yes, I taught my son that "even when the customer is wrong, the customer is right" LOL.

FWIW I have been dealing with a very good carpenter out here in WY who wants control of everything but does not accept any responsibility for the work of those who he controls, constantly pushes the blame everywhere else while criticizing everyone, and then takes his frustration out on everyone around him. It has been a rough several months, and has gotten worse. 'I don't think I will have him back here next year' is the nicest thing I can say..
 
#240 ·
I read your post above, about the customer service. and yes, I taught my son that "even when the customer is wrong, the customer is right" LOL.
I read this thinking I had kept this as a draft! Sometimes I just say F'it and hit the post button lol

The part that I have learned from all of you on DooTalk can be multiplied by 10. I think a good test is to share an opinion on 2S oil without it causing an upheaval. Over the past decade I have read literally thousands of comments on DooTalk for 2S oils with the vast majority having a non issue with their post. Say they are 95%, I don't want to be part of the 5%, so I will learn from the 95%.

This is besides the point that over the years I have often found myself at the brink of being banned. I can't think of anything that I posted could be that bad, but the repeat was a growing concern. Keep in mind that this was years after providing my own training, so being on my own on DooTalk was not the same as customer service. Like everyone who contributes to DooTalk on a regular bases, we are alone among our families and friends. Some of us have become good friends, but that alone is not a guaranty to help with open forum posting. The best thing is to be among a group that follow each other and help each other out. In the Compression seams high and way off topic [post #16], David H replied that he thought that I meant 'noting' verses 'nothing' which had two complete different meanings. Whether it is a simple mistake or realizing that someone may be going of the deep end, I think it is important to have each other's back.

As I reached into my 9th year on DooTalk (Oct 28th 2020 and on), I thought it would be awesome to reach a full 10 years. For the following calendar year I had shared this with absolutely no one. The whole time I was thinking to reach the goal and preparing a thank you topic for everyone who had helped me survive. Only 9 days from my goal on Oct 19th of 2021 I received a PM with a friendly reminder of the rules. I was indeed a friendly reminder with nothing official, so that was a good thing. From my perspective he was remarking that I was nearing the deep end and there was plenty of time to turn it around. If I remember correctly this was the early years when we were posting heavily in EVs. I think that one can imagine the learning curve from back in 2019-2021.

The important thing is that I did get help. 10 days I later on Oct 29th of 2021 I posted the following topic Daag44 - After 10 years on DooTalk. It ended being an extraordinarily short version for what I had intended, but it happened nonetheless. I think my previous post and this one reaches far more than I was able write back then without caving to a simpler version.

Setting aside family and friends, my story for being inspired by individuals began roughly in 1991 with one of my teachers, Sergio. He found me sleeping a few times, but the classes were too early for me to stay awake lol The closest I can get to who he was would be if you or BlueMax or E-tronic with real experience in their field made the effort to designate one to three weeks periods four times a year to teach young people like ourselves. I have seen this in University with evening courses, but day time is exceptionally more difficult.

Sergio had long learned the value of being a consultant versus a full time employee, and he was able to dictate his own terms. There were a number of other good teachers, but he was a natural. By the way I did apologize for falling asleep in his class. He told me don't worry, I know you can catch-up, but I am only giving you 5-10 min before I wake you up so you don't fall too far behind. To this day I still remember waking-up to intrinsic functions and never quite grasping what that meant. I figured if it was that hard to understand than it was hopefully not all that important??? lol I wish that I was kidding, but I still do not know how to perceive the definition of a function. Heck even the use of algebra is a word I do not use because I am not certain what it means. I think that I managed to use algebra for the fuel/oil topic, but that was weeks of racking my brains to reach mathematically what I was seeing in my mind. The reason that I posted each and every detail was so that I could go back put it together. I still remember going back a month or so later and thinking none it made sense to me, yet I was the one who put it together lol It led me to spent maybe a month to work it out once again and then add every possible detail that I could thing of to help me for the next time. I don't even want to look at the math again, because I have no good understanding on how Log an ln works.

I don't mean to discourage you, but rather the opposite. If someone like myself has the ability to work through things that are beyond his normal capability, then in my opinion that should be encouraging. Perhaps taking the next step is relatively simple. The ultimate question for me is what can I provide the other person to inch further in achieving their goals.

I am reminded of a public topic that I deeply thanked BlueMax for his help. He in turn listed a number of members that had helped him over the hears, From his full response it became clear that he was not comfortable with where this was going, because it was not fair to the many owners who he also valued for contributing. I understood it back then which was probably in early 2015 if not late 2014, but I have since grasped the concept multiple times more.

BlueMax and Thumbdoctor have been absent since mid to late 2015, and this has given me time to learn that a large group is needed to make it work. I see some owners get the wrong idea about me and I need to tell them that it's not the way it works. There are a hundreds of people who contribute on a regular basis that I rely on.

Hopefully this provides a good idea of the many reasons that I kept my 10 year topic short and addressed the group that had helped me the most over the years. This was 2021, so it worth nothing the Gen1 REV sub-forum that I was addressing which was different than the RT forum I had originally learned from. The Gen1 REV forum had its own learning curve, but it was long before I joined DooTalk. It worth noting the contentious discussions tend to follow the latest sled. We have already reached the point that even the G4 is being spared the hot potato. I provides everyone a breather.
 
#241 ·
FWIW I have been dealing with a very good carpenter out here in WY who wants control of everything but does not accept any responsibility for the work of those who he controls, constantly pushes the blame everywhere else while criticizing everyone, and then takes his frustration out on everyone around him. It has been a rough several months, and has gotten worse. 'I don't think I will have him back here next year' is the nicest thing I can say.
From seeing this first hand, what are your thought on the root cause? Of the many possibilities, the first two ideas that come to mind is being over confident or over compensating. In either case I am thinking it is only part of it. Everyone has a bad day, but that does not account for a repeated bad attitude.

I don't think of these things to solve a problem, but rather for me to learn how to avoid them. I have often thought that we should take a video of ourselves during a work day to review ourselves. The thought of what I would see frightens me, but I know it is most helpful. I have listened to my own calls during customer service days, and often found myself cringing from my own responses. I could hear the nervousness in my voice that lead to fear and making fundamental mistakes, and from there all that I could think of was the perception from the person on the other end of the line. I learned a great deal from listening into those worst experiences.

This has me think of the many YouTube videos that I see in roofing, or anything. Maybe half the time I am wondering how they pulled it off.
 
#244 ·
From seeing this first hand, what are your thought on the root cause? Of the many possibilities, the first two ideas that come to mind is being over confident or over compensating. In either case I am thinking it is only part of it. Everyone has a bad day, but that does not account for a repeated bad attitude.
My best assessment: Inflexability in thinking coupled with a personality that may just be insecure.

The aggression towards others is a personality thing; this same fellow never has anything nice to say about anyone. And he has even yelled at others on this site for being polite and offering to help... I am not making this up; it has been shocking how mean he has been to others.

And his expectations of what is to be done and how people do it is extremely rigid. If he works with someone who is not up to similar skill levels, he does not adjust the work setup to allow for a lower skill level, but demands that the lower skilled person perform better and better.. which may or may not happen.

At the same time, adjusting work processes and tasks to conditions is something he cannot do well. It just seems to set him off.

It has been very unpleasant, and I am spending a lot of time going back over old work to fix things. Some of that will always happen, but this is excessive. And his attitude has prevented any constructive input on fixing things as we go along, no one wants to bring anything up for fear of getting yelled at.
 
#242 ·
Scaffolding setup #4

It went from bad to worse to finally reaching a cool/safer setup. On the 24th I was setting it all up to find the 10'X2' crosses for the 3' sections were out of wack (too short) to make it work. So I made a temporary scaffolding setup on the far side to remove the gutters only to realize that I was good with only 40' of scaffolding and did not need the added 7' ones. The next day on the 25th I returned a trailer load of pieces in return for a larger number of platforms that provided support for the full 5' width.

The reason for this mistake was my own measurements of the roof. I remembered it being 40', but I measured 42' . The majority know to measure twice prior to cutting a piece which I do as well. I had every reason to do so when the measurements were over 2' than expected, but somehow I did not bother. I am not happy about the mistake, but I am ending with a setup that is safer and easier to work with than I had anticipated.

I think that I previously mentioned seeing someone fall off of a platform, but I forgot that I had also heard someone yelling out of pain from having fallen 8' onto a paved rock pathway. I didn't see him fall, but I heard the cries of pain. From the luck of the draw, it ended being fine, but that was bad! This whole time that I am trying to achieve a good setup, with every lost day I am thinking at the very least to find a way to make it work and make it count. This is what had me remember of the 8' fall that I had witnessed.


Roofing Nails

This was an interesting purchase. I call for the price and I am told $40 for 3,500 nails. I needed roughly 2,500 so that sounded reasonable to me, but multiple times lower than I had expected. So I asked more questions and found these were 1.25" roofing nails used in air guns. The ones that I wanted were 1.5" galvanized nails for $130 for a 50 lbs box. 3 lbs is roughly 400 1.5" nails, so over 6,500+ for 50 lbs.

At the time the $130 vs $40 made no sense at all. I went to the warehouse to look at these nails and found the most common ones being used by the pros were the cheapest kind, so that began to make sense. So I asked the guy in the warehouse what he thought between the two and he said the ones I asked for were the premium nails that are not likely to rust. This had me think of my own roof with far too many nails showings... and none of them were rusted, so the answer was obvious and I bought the box.

I would much rather use an impact nailer. It is not only faster, but the nails are driven straight. It is better, but I cannot feel if they are driven into solid wood which is the problem with tongue&groove boards. I wave been told that the companies do not provide a warranty for the installation in tongue&groove boards, so I have every incentive to ensure each nail holds well enough.

Two layers of shingles is roughly 0.25" and the membrane is 0.05" for a total of 0.3" (19/64). A 1.5" roofing nail has 1.25" of penetration when ignoring the tapered end. This leaves slightly less than an inch of penetration into the true 1" tongue&groove boards from ancient rail cars. Even if they were premium boards, the penetration would still be the same with less than an inch.

Where it gets weird is that the available length of nails for air nailers is 1.25" which is only 1" penetration, so only 0.7" into the boards. This is a none issue with a 5/8 plywood (0.625"), but big problem with tongue&groove boards. I have asked a few installers and they told me either of two things, the short nails were good enough or they were not interested. I could cover the cost of pros by doing my own work for a couple of weeks, yet they are not interested. Can you see the problem with pros doing this work? Even if I wanted to, it would not work.

If that wasn't bad enough, asking to have self sticking membrane across the whole roof is a considered absolute no-no that is against the rules. So we are up to three key things that the pros refuse to do on my roof. You can get better nails, but that is not even one of three things that I mentioned. In other words it has become apparent why companies will not (or cannot) warranty their shingles installed in tongue&groove boards.
 
#245 ·
If that wasn't bad enough, asking to have self sticking membrane across the whole roof is a considered absolute no-no that is against the rules. So we are up to three key things that the pros refuse to do on my roof. You can get better nails, but that is not even one of three things that I mentioned. In other words it has become apparent why companies will not (or cannot) warranty their shingles installed in tongue&groove boards.
I have to wonder if part of the issue with T&G roof sheathing is that the density of the boards is a lot more variable than for plywood. In actual boards, you are hitting anything from soft wood to hard knots. Hit a knot, then the nail will not penetrate and you have a possible expensive call-back later.. the guys running those guns and slamming down the shingles will probably not notice a nail sticking up 1/4"

Plywood and OSB sheathing are going to have much less variation in hardness, so the nail guns will penetrate consistently.
 
#248 ·
You can tell if the nail is in a crack and not wood if you pay attention to how the gun sounds and recoils. I use a hammer to hit the ones that do not set. If you use a lot of hose like over 100’ the gun can run out of air by the time you put the fifth nail in the shingle. I can out pace a pancake Compressor on a good day (not any time recently).
The pancake compressors have a pretty small tank. I used them back in the day for the finishing work which was mostly for finishing nails. Those nails are remarkably week. I had a hard time to drive them further with a hammer. Often times they would bend into the soft wood which gave the painters extra work to fill the gaps with latex caulk. That alone was no big deal. The framing and installation of windows was so far off that it made all of my work multiple times more complicated.

I was using 1" pine boards to build a bridge between the existing extension window jamb and the interior walls to install the inside trim. A deviation of an 1/8 of an inch was was easy to average out and make work, but those were the rare cases. Most times I needed to cheat anywhere from 1/4 to over an inch and up to 1.5"! I remember one condo with the framing that was so bad that we found one corner of the ceiling dropping 4" over 4'. None of us could guess how this was even possible, but there it was.
 
#250 ·
I remember one condo with the framing that was so bad that we found one corner of the ceiling dropping 4" over 4'. None of us could guess how this was even possible, but there it was.
Wow.. that is sad. An acquaintance told me about finding a poured concrete foundation out of level by 6" across 20'. How can things be done so badly?! Even if you are trying.....
 
#256 ·
Our warm days are officially done. In the next week or two our daytime highs will range from 5-12C (41-54F), and night time lows from 5C to -2C (41-28F). I can still do some work into the beginning of January, but my season is officially over by the end of October. It is the time we get the first frost and soon snow in the first weeks of November. Until I reach Winter, I dislike October and November.
 
#253 · (Edited)
Cleaning of the old shingles is done

more to edit later

At 10 pm I was on the scaffolding for a final clean-up. It was getting dark at 6:15m but still working keeping the night vision. At 6:30 I switched on my panel lights. I normally have 4 X 42W spiral bulbs which are equivalent to roughly 150W each, but one burnt and was not an issue. Note the picture was taken at 11pm. The lights are reaching the 40' of roof and another 20' into the cedar hedge.

Turn back the clock to Saturday
I was up on the roof at 3am. The weather permitted that I could have been up all night, but I was in too much pain and needed the rest. I spent the early morning removing the lower portion of the shingles. A buddy came over in mid afternoon around 2pm to see where I was at and said get ready we are cleaning it all off. And hour later there was someone else helping. By 8pm we had all the shingles removed except for the sticky part along the first two rows of membrane. Those two rows are beyond the exterior wall, so a non issue of the water leaks.

Sunday
I was on the roof at 7am and my buddy sends me a text at 9am for a rise and shine wake-up call which I was already on the roof lol I could have been up on the roof all night, but once again I was tired. And I do not mean my mind, but rather my muscles were in pain. I could push through it, but then the back would give and I would be out of work for weeks, so that doesn't work.

By 9:30am I see the radar view of weather showing incoming rain, so I called a friend for help and shifted all of my attention to setting-up 2X4s along the roof to climb and install plastics. It eventually did rain, but on Monday at 2am which by this time I had long cleaned all of scaffolding and gutters.


Membrane removal

By 11am I was removing the large vent similar to the Weather Pro Ridge as the help arrived. It no longer seemed to want to rain so we began removing the second course of membrane. This proved to be far more difficult than I had anticipated. The helping hand kept me busy asking if I had this or that, which I provided, but none of the conventional tools helped.

By 1pm the helping hand was inspired to return home and return with various tools like a 2" chisel which would have worked great had it powered by the air compressor. He also returned with an Oscillating Multi-Tool which actually worked! It was far easier but still too slow. The work turned into a combination of using a square shovel for the easier portions, and the oscillating tool for the tougher portions.

By 2pm it was getting late to be pushing my luck for help on a Sunday which is needed for rest before a long work week. So I said we might as well get the plastics up and thanks to his ideas I could pull this off another day.

Tarp coverage

By 3pm we had covered 30' of the 40' with one tarp, and half way down the remaining 10' before I ran out 3/16 washers to anchor the tarps. He had helped me do the most difficult portion, so I was able to do the rest on my own after getting more washers.

By 4pm I had returned home with more 3/16 washers, but realized I had made a fundamental error in mending two tarps. The only way to do this is having the mend at the highest point to promote the water to run away from the mend.

Ideally I would never ever want to have any horizontal braces (2/3 or 2/4) running up the roof. With enough rain the water weights on the tarp and puddles, but that takes a remarkably heavy downfall. It was 4am as I was writing this paragraph, so I went up to check and noticed everything was good except for snow accumulation on the tarps which I had not expected...... It's not a cause leakage short term, but it's going to stretch the tarp and raise the risk.

Now I am really shaking my head because I know how to do this correctly from having it done on my wood shed by running vertical strips of wood to tie the tarp and it's water proof, or at least water resistant. The only reason I had horizontal strips was to climb up. Has I thought of the weight of snow I would have removed them as we climbed down. How crazy that even if I know how to do something right from experience, that I can still manage to get it wrong.....

Regardless of how dumb I feel, at least I had the mind to raise the seam. I also used pitch and screws each 6" to provide a better seal.

By the way I am too stressed to sleep, that's why I am still up. The radar is showing snow for may 6 to 8 hours, so my only hope is for a minimal amount and the trap to stretch. It should be fine, but it is not something that I can predict sine I have not used this method, also read as wrong method.

Another reason that I am still up is that I was done cleaning the majority of the ground floor by 3am. It was either that or deal with picking-up wet bits and nails. And now we know it is snow on top of it.


Shoulda Coulda

I having a lot of those lately. This is a hard sell, but I honestly ask myself, did I manage without injury to myself or anyone else??? If the answer is yes, which fortunately it is, then I do my best to accept the injury of embarrassment. This leads to the choice I made with shingles versus tin, a discussion we had working on the roof in the past few days. It's good for another story.
 
#254 ·
It was 80 today. Snow in the forecast for Monday. The boy and I moved some snow equipment front and center.
Congrats, and I meant that in so many ways. I honestly thought that you were a young guy in his mid 50s like me, +/- like 50 to 60 at most. Hopefully that comes out as a compliment. I am still in disbelief.
 
#263 ·
Safety and Fear


Platforms
I am consuming so much time on safety and calming my fears. I am so happy that I decided to cover the 5' scaffold with three platforms. I rent them for $20 a piece, but for a month. I have four of them, but two of them have been retired until I replace the boards and use them as my outdoor workbench. It was cheaper to rent more then to fix them. I don't yet have it roped-up like I do on my jobs, but that is only due to the added complication with this particular setup. Regardless, having a full 5' platform is in itself a major improvement in security.

Security Ropes
I installed three hooks along the top of the roof with ropes having three loops each for tie-ins. It works good, but the ropes are often in the way which adds risk. I have never used this much security, so it's a setup in progress.

Tarps and a Short Circuit
That was a nice to have. In hindsight I should have gone with the 50' tarp to cover the whole side with one tarp. It would have been less expensive, but I got caught with the fear to manipulate such a large tarp which would have been a non issue. The main problem to use two tarps was having to mend the two to prevent infiltration. I had to prop the seem with 2X4s and use pitch to ensure no infiltration. I have more than enough first hand experience with tarps, yet I managed to make two fundamental mistakes, #1 and #2 from the list I made below. This is what I refer to a short circuit in the brain. I still got it to work, but the setups took hours longer.

Guide for tarp installation over a roof
#1 Avoid using any horizontal pieces of wood along roof, only vertical pieces.
#2 Vertical wood/boards is preferable to tie/screw the tarp higher then the roof, especially for long term.
#3 Overlap/extend both ends on the sides and top/bottom of the roof, and tie/screw them to the facia boards.
#4 Cut excess tarp to prevent flapping in the wind which causes too much stress on the ends.

Writing it out
Had I written it out first, I would have likely headed to my own experience. That's the main reason I write so much stuff on DooTalk. From experience I know it helps me to think things through.

I lost more than week, but it's part of a long term process
I recognize the amount of time/days that I lost, but I am confident that it will pay off in the long run.

Working on myself and receiving your help
I feel that I am at the stage of life where I can use my experience to poll-vault further. I do need to get the roof done, but I am primarily working on myself. I am blown away with the help that you guys have given me.

A particular style of writing
I may not appear to be openly asking for help/insights, but make no mistake that I am always hoping for it. I have long developed my own style of writing to protect myself from reply injury. Eventually I began to use the same style in hope to protect others from the same injuries. Post #7 and Post #9 are two of the most latest examples of this kind of effort.

Avoiding Triggers and learning from you
One main thing that I have learned from you guys on DooTalk is to avoid triggers. As an example is someone I know who often gives me his advise followed by, but do what you like. The part that I bolded is a trigger that is was not necessary. If I am not mistaken, at least 90% of replies on DooTalk have no such triggers. With the number of posts I make per year, I am likely to consistently hit many triggers without realizing it. My point is that I am always learning from you every step of the way. I recently completed my 11th year on DooTalk, so this may be the best as it gets for me. Although I am making an abnormally large effort with this thread, so maybe there is chance that I can poll-vault further with your help.
 
#264 ·
Lighting
As you can see from the firt picture, that is a non issue. From the third picuture below, those are 3 X 150 watt equivalant light bulbs. There are normally 4 of them, but one burnt out with rain. I learnt the hard way that those bulbs did not like the rain. I normally add a 100 watt for the fourth, but there was more than enough light. At nearly $20 a light you can imagine that I am carefull in carrying it on top of my scaffolding.

By the way, I store/keep it at the center of my garage to increase the lighting for engine repairs. It provides an amazing amount of light. Note from the first picture that we can see the tower for my 40' TV antenna, and the cedar hedge that is over 60' away from the lights.

Wood Triangle Tints and shades Space Slope




Wrong tarp installation (see post #263 for correct installation)

It is worth seeing the wrong tarp installation after a light snow fall the next morning. Note how much the tarp stretched from the weight of the snow! Seeing that I know better, the amount of stress I felt at the time is the only reason that I can think of. The other reason is that I not only dealing with myself, but with a helper. Rest assured that the helper was NOT the problem. I am merely saying that I was handling too many thoughts in too short of time that led to a wrong tarp installation. I also had more than enough time and more than enough patience from my helper, which is how I know that my mind short circuited.

The setup is good enough short term so there is nothing to worry about. I am only showing how I messed up lol Essentially, I needed those horizontal cross pieces of 2X4s to climb and install the tarp. Seeing it was meant to be short term tarp installation, and I would need them them to climb back up to remove the tarp, I instinctively left them there. It would have been fine with only rain, but snow weighs heavily on tarps.

Tarp installation should be done in a way to last all winter regardless of the estmated short time of use. It's not big deal, but also not the right way to do it. Also note the boards on the right are on tope of the tarp. I can debate it both ways, but it is preferable to have the wood beneath to create a funnel effect for the rain and snow. It is similar to the argument for the best place to put the screws on a tin roof. Some claim the screws are best on the solid surface where they can seal the best, while others believe screwing at the heighest point provides added protection, hence the funnel effect. The same principals hold when installating a tarp for long term use.


Hood Snow Slope Automotive tire Freezing






Musical instrument Sky White Guitar Wood



The light grows dim especially after 15'. The setup is anchored to any connection of the scaffolding, so it takes 60 seconds to move it every 10'. The only problem is the shadows. With the use of a head light then that becomes a non issue. I could be there tonight, but I don't feel it. I went up to take a picture (below) to show how I ancored it and that's enough for tonight. I don't feel it for tonight, but if I did like I did on Saturday at 3am in post #253 , then I have more than enough light. It can be starting a job early or finishing it late. It works either way. I have build this setup over 20 years ago and I have used them many times.

I used ~6' of ABS pipe for the stem and a metal fitting to fit over the coupler that bridges each section of the scaffolding. My father welded a nut and made a T handle to tighten the fitting against the scaffolding coupler. It would be a little too wobbly for high winds, but we only get those a few times a year, so it's a none issue. And it can sustain at least 3 times more wind than I am willing to be up there working lol The best part of the ABS stem is that it makes it light.


Wood Twig Tints and shades Wood stain Terrestrial plant





By the way, what you are seeing in the background of the last picture is the upper portion of the garage that needs a paint job. Many of you probably recognize the type of exterior wall cladding from the 70s. It's some sort of power coated press cardboard. It sounds really bad, but when it is stripped and painted properly, it actually works. Considering what you are seeing it 48 years in 2023, I cannot knock the product. The key is to have a roof that overhangs the walls.

Have you ever seen cladding that claim and warranty 50+ years? How can a product be marketed for twice or three times the duration that it's been on the market??? Prove it!
 
#265 ·
Antenna mask

From the previous pictures you can see my antenna mask (first one of post #264. The first white spot about 4' above the roof ridge is a B2B line of sight wireless antenna that I once used to bridge my internet to another home that was unable to get wifi internet reception without major work. It hasn't been used in a decade. The white part near the top of the picture is the wifi antenna to my internet supplier. In the past few months I have transitioned to fiber, so that too has become obsolete.

I should probably remove them both, but I do not enjoy climbing the mask. Yes I do climb over 50' in a tree, but it does not mean that I like it! lol From the top of what you see, I have a shingle pole mask that reaches another 10-12' for my OTA antenna (Over The Air). There is no way that I am going that high, so I loosen the clamps and drop the pipe to ~32' for service. I have been lucky to escape having to do this in many years, maybe over ten years. If I need to go back, the cool thing is that I won't be more scared that I was back when I set it up in the early 2000s. I did once use a cherry lift and that was awesome!

I still have my sight on that cherry lift. Funny story. I once used it to trim a tree next to my garage. Once I got done I thought it was a good idea to extend it to its maximum of 55' to get a top view of my surroundings. What a view! As I went to actuate the lever to go down, nothing happened! Going up 55' for a minute and knowing you can come down is a non issue, but feeling stuck up there is scary. I remember looking down and realizing that I was being held by four toothpicks, the lower arms that held the lift. That's what those solid arms looked like from up there, like twigs lol

I did get help to bring me down..... an hour later. After less than 15min my fear rose so high that I was crouching in the basket and eventually sat in it. The fear was relentless. From that point on we never ever went up without a rope to descend. Keep in mind that even Bear Grills never asks his guests to descend in openness without some sort of rock face to rest the feet against. So even 50' in complete air would have scared the crap out of me. I would have been scared, but I would have done it for one simple reason, the fear of remaining up there was larger than the fear to rope down.

Fear is an amazing tool
Some people can work really high and all the power to them. I do reach some heights, but I don't like it. 10 to 15 feet is well enough for me. The thought of sweeping my 24' chimney is an ordeal. That's where a 55' cherry picker comes in handy. Compared to being stuck at 55' in open air, working at 25' is a walk in the park. If there is a problem, I can simply use a rope to walk down the roof. Since then I have made the effort to raise the lift near the roof or near the tree trunk.

A view above the tree line
I still did reach the top of the lift on different occasions, even with the higher lift we got later. The view above the tree line is breath taking. If I spent say 20min at the very top, I would notice none of it while working. Once the hard part was done, I would take maybe 15 to 30 seconds to look over the tree tops. If this seems short, use your watch to see how much time is needed for a 360 view. I just did it on ground level and it took under 30 seconds.

Best view is from a hot-air balloon
To get a real cool view from above, the best that I have experienced was from a hot air balloon. A typical ride from Saint-Jean-Sur-Richelieu is 30 to 60 min. I was lucky to get the extended ride. The view was really something to experience. The landing was something I had not bothered to question, and it was brutal lol Do you see that road way ahead? He's aiming for it. But there are corn fields on both sides. My question was how the F was this going to work??? I found out soon enough. The large basket ran through a lot of corn stocks before it slowed down and our basket tilted horizontally leaving my mom and I piled onto each other. It was an awesome! experience lol

There was a pickup that had been following us all along and met us within 5 min after our landing. 10 min later the three guys had the basket and the balloon into the truck. The path through the corn stocks seemed like forever, but it was only 50' The pilot was amazing in bouncing/landing us twice across a narrow road, once on one side of the ditch and another on the other side, and one last landing in the corn stalks. Out of the 50' by 5' basket, only the last 10-20' of stalks got damaged. I still remember them packing everything up and realizing the damage to the corn field was so small that it wasn't even worth a dollar. On our way back I asked the guy about this and he said some hot air balloon operators tend to go on a destructive path.
 
Top