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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
To update those following this, 2 of the 4 sleds had the sock filter removed. It looks like possibly rust in the fuel. However, this debris is fine enough to slip through the 40 micron Twin Air screen used when filling. The debris could be actually "in solution" and dissolved in the fuel only to be pulled out with the BRP sock filter. I am not sure if the BRP filter is more fine, but somehow, the debris slips through the initial screen only to clog the BRP sock.

If it is that fine and small, couldn't this also flow through the fuel system? Not the best situation, but it keeps the sled running. Maybe that's why Polaris and Arctic Cat/Yamaha sleds will run when BRP sleds die when taking the same fuel.

Both of the socks in the attached photos were new for this season. One has 400 miles on it, the other 600 miles. Both sleds used the pre-filter with every fill this season since the socks were replaced.
 

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FWIW.. Twinair say this removes particles 'as small as 40 microns'. This is not really a filter spec so it is completely dubious that this is a reliable micron rating as is commonly used to spec filters. This is a great example of marketing trickery IMHO..

Here is a funnel with a real 60 micron insert. Look at the pix of the stainless steel filter element up close to see what a true 60 micron element looks like. The Twinair thing is nothing like this. https://kinsler.com/Shop/product/fi...ngular-includes-60-micron-filter-insert-5621/

Brass screens are nothing like this; they are just very coarse filters.

And any such filters won't reliably remove any water or phase separated ethanol.
 

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To update those following this, 2 of the 4 sleds had the sock filter removed. It looks like possibly rust in the fuel. However, this debris is fine enough to slip through the 40 micron Twin Air screen used when filling. The debris could be actually "in solution" and dissolved in the fuel only to be pulled out with the BRP sock filter. I am not sure if the BRP filter is more fine, but somehow, the debris slips through the initial screen only to clog the BRP sock.

If it is that fine and small, couldn't this also flow through the fuel system? Not the best situation, but it keeps the sled running. Maybe that's why Polaris and Arctic Cat/Yamaha sleds will run when BRP sleds die when taking the same fuel.

Both of the socks in the attached photos were new for this season. One has 400 miles on it, the other 600 miles. Both sleds used the pre-filter with every fill this season since the socks were replaced.
Thanks very much for the update and pix. Yes, the even finer stuff either clogged the sock, or the pump's pre-screen, or got got through the pump pre-screen and is filtered by the inline filter, which is supposed to be 10 micron.

The question becomes if anyone wants this junk going on into the injection system of an expensive sled. It bears saying again... if the injector partially clogs from this junk and it runs the engine lean, then the engine may go.
 

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Our automotive 4-stroke engines can be very forgiving when it comes to "bad" or "compromised" fuel, I am a little surprised our 4-stroke sled engines appear to be not so forgiving though.....or maybe just a BRP thing vs. a Yami thing as I think a person already posted.

Take this same potential scenario and it was a 2-stroke engine - is it a limp sled or a blown up sled.

Heading on a trip shortly and this location is a fuel stop on our route, which is putting some doubts in my head - but I will take this as one of those situations where all you hear is the bad news on the internet......for everyone one bad customer report, there are ten good customer reports :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
FWIW.. Twinair say this removes particles 'as small as 40 microns'. This is not really a filter spec so it is completely dubious that this is a reliable micron rating as is commonly used to spec filters. This is a great example of marketing trickery IMHO..

Here is a funnel with a real 60 micron insert. Look at the pix of the stainless steel filter element up close to see what a true 60 micron element looks like. The Twinair thing is nothing like this. https://kinsler.com/Shop/product/fi...ngular-includes-60-micron-filter-insert-5621/

Brass screens are nothing like this; they are just very coarse filters.

And any such filters won't reliably remove any water or phase separated ethanol.

The issue this time is debris, not water. I have taken the Mr. Funnel F8 on backpack trips with me. This funnel unit has excellent water filtration and claims to filter debris. I cannot find a "micron" rating yet. I switched to the Twin Air unit because it obviously is easier to carry around in a gear bag versus a big funnel.
 

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Anyone here with a bike able to confirm if this would fit in our sleds. Look up Splitstream.
This should do the job.

Splitstream Gas Tank Fuel Pre-Filter Screen for KTM, Husaberg, Husqvarna, Gas Gas

As for riding in QC i have thousands of miles in QC never had a problem. 🤔
 

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I wrote some earlier reply’s about our troubles at lac repo. Yes we had trouble recently but we have also filled there many times with out a problem. But there is something going on there. We don’t have enough facts to solve. Lac repo should know this is happening and bring in a specialist to look over their setup. Relay 22 had a dirt problem 5 years ago. They added filters to pumps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #69 ·
Anyone here with a bike able to confirm if this would fit in our sleds. Look up Splitstream.
This should do the job.

Splitstream Gas Tank Fuel Pre-Filter Screen for KTM, Husaberg, Husqvarna, Gas Gas

As for riding in QC i have thousands of miles in QC never had a problem. 🤔
While the 25 micron spec on the Splitstream sounds enticing, an earlier post from nm9stheham doubts any hope for a tank filter like the Twin Air (and now maybe this Splitstream) to catch water or phase separated ethanol. However, our issue this week was NOT WATER, but rust or other debris in the fuel that got through the Twin Air and clogged the BRP sock filter. The question... will this unit catch the rust and debris that slipped past the Twin Air unit?



FWIW.. Twinair say this removes particles 'as small as 40 microns'. This is not really a filter spec so it is completely dubious that this is a reliable micron rating as is commonly used to spec filters. This is a great example of marketing trickery IMHO..

Here is a funnel with a real 60 micron insert. Look at the pix of the stainless steel filter element up close to see what a true 60 micron element looks like. The Twinair thing is nothing like this. https://kinsler.com/Shop/product/fi...ngular-includes-60-micron-filter-insert-5621/

Brass screens are nothing like this; they are just very coarse filters.

And any such filters won't reliably remove any water or phase separated ethanol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
Thanks very much for the update and pix. Yes, the even finer stuff either clogged the sock, or the pump's pre-screen, or got got through the pump pre-screen and is filtered by the inline filter, which is supposed to be 10 micron.

The question becomes if anyone wants this junk going on into the injection system of an expensive sled. It bears saying again... if the injector partially clogs from this junk and it runs the engine lean, then the engine may go.
I would think the pump sock is protecting the pump and also the injectors.... the inline filter downstream of the pump is only protecting the injectors. Is that Wix filter finer or better than the sock filter? This problem wont go away, the sock is clogged easy. My thought is to ditch the sock, and use a good filter at each fill and rely on the inline filter to save the injectors.

Let the pump eat a little dirt, the WIX inline is there to save the injectors and takes 5 minutes to replace.
 

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While the 25 micron spec on the Splitstream sounds enticing, an earlier post from nm9stheham doubts any hope for a tank filter like the Twin Air (and now maybe this Splitstream) to catch water or phase separated ethanol. However, our issue this week was NOT WATER, but rust or other debris in the fuel that got through the Twin Air and clogged the BRP sock filter. The question... will this unit catch the rust and debris that slipped past the Twin Air unit?
They claim rust and other small particulates.
Motocross Action did a test on it. Looked like it did the job. But never know until someone gives it a try.
 
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The issue this time is debris, not water. I have taken the Mr. Funnel F8 on backpack trips with me. This funnel unit has excellent water filtration and claims to filter debris. I cannot find a "micron" rating yet. I switched to the Twin Air unit because it obviously is easier to carry around in a gear bag versus a big funnel.
Right, I am just reminding folks to not expect a coarse filter to take out any water. The UK and Australian sites for Mr Funnel claim 50 microns. But again, they just say a number. Filer specs read something along the lines of 'removes xx% of particles of yy micron size" where the xx% number is number like 50% or 90% or 95%. or greater.

Using the Twinair thing is quite understandable, but it just is not a fine filter for the sediment you encountered. The Kinsler filter I linked is for higher end racing use. I am trusting their numbers due to their main customer base of injection system; it is an accessory to their racing injection system.

But filtering out what you seem to have run into at Lac Repo is going take a pretty fine filter to have a prayer of doing the job. IDK the actual micron rating of the Ski-Doo fuel socks but I'd make a guess in the 20-50 micron range, considering how they clog up.

Perhaps get something like the Kinsler filter with the standard 60 micron stainless screen for typical use. The only way to get finer filtering with some volume that I am aware of is with filter bags like these 25 micron bags, and a hand held strainer to hold them while pouring through the gasoline into filter and into the sled. These are made from polyester, which is resistant to gasoline and looks to be resistant to ethanol. I would test a couple with E10 first. IDK how fast of slow these will flow. #4 Size 25 Micron Liquid Filter Bags, Polyester Felt, Stainless Steel Ring

Use the Kinsler filter (or no filter) for high volume chain stations where there is a lot less issues like that at Lac Repo. Then just be on the look out for the typical problem station, which is any small town or village or camp, where fuel sales are seasonal and low, where it not part of a chain with regular maintenance programs, and then pull out the bag filters.
 

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I would think the pump sock is protecting the pump and also the injectors.... the inline filter downstream of the pump is only protecting the injectors. Is that Wix filter finer or better than the sock filter? This problem wont go away, the sock is clogged easy. My thought is to ditch the sock, and use a good filter at each fill and rely on the inline filter to save the injectors.

Let the pump eat a little dirt, the WIX inline is there to save the injectors and takes 5 minutes to replace.
IMHO, you are on the right track. The inline filter after the pump is finer and is there ast the final fine lilne of defense for protecting the injectors.

You might want to re-read post #37 on fuel pumps being replaced. The pump may not just eat a little dirt. It may be damaged. The sock helps protect that.

The only way to prevent this and keep on truckin' is to keep it out of the tank in the first place. If the station is not doing a proper job with filters in the first place, then we have to do it.

It might be worth your while, and help others, to call or write to Lac Repo and let them know what happened.
 

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They claim rust and other small particulates.
Motocross Action did a test on it. Looked like it did the job. But never know until someone gives it a try.
At least the Slipstream unit appears to be based on a commercially used filtration material, like this nylon mesh:
That seems better than the 'as small as 40 micron' advertised for the Twinair product.

And with some more reading, it appears that the polyester felt material (linked in my prior post) can filter out 'gelatinous' material... like perhaps the phase separated ethanol gunk...???
 

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Our automotive 4-stroke engines can be very forgiving when it comes to "bad" or "compromised" fuel, I am a little surprised our 4-stroke sled engines appear to be not so forgiving though.....or maybe just a BRP thing vs. a Yami thing as I think a person already posted.

Take this same potential scenario and it was a 2-stroke engine - is it a limp sled or a blown up sled.

Heading on a trip shortly and this location is a fuel stop on our route, which is putting some doubts in my head - but I will take this as one of those situations where all you hear is the bad news on the internet......for everyone one bad customer report, there are ten good customer reports :)
There is other places to get gas. Kanwanta has gas. Matawan also.


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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
At least the Slipstream unit appears to be based on a commercially used filtration material, like this nylon mesh:
That seems better than the 'as small as 40 micron' advertised for the Twinair product.

And with some more reading, it appears that the polyester felt material (linked in my prior post) can filter out 'gelatinous' material... like perhaps the phase separated ethanol gunk...???
Trouble is.... that Kinsler deal is 17" large.... tough to backpack around Quebec with a monster funnel/filter stashed in your gear bag.
 

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Trouble is.... that Kinsler deal is 17" large.... tough to backpack around Quebec with a monster funnel/filter stashed in your gear bag.
Yep I get it. If you want volume fine filtering, then the filtering equipment is not small. Just trying to come up with some real solutions for you, as the Twinair screen did not do the job in your situation.

Doing fine filtering in the field with gravity filters will simply take some tome and trouble. But I can only imagine that you and your friends would be OK with spending a half hour filtering fuel at a questionable station rather than having the nightmare trip that you had....!

It sucks to come to that, but rural, low volume, independent stations are the places most often hit by these problems. My first exposure to this was in my Dad's station wagon going on a family trip to Niagara Falls back in the early 60's LOL. Water, dirt and rust are still the same old problems now as they were then.. .but not we have ethanol phase separation problems too.

The filter bags in the links above and a strainer to hold them may be more compact. Just another idea for you to consider. I would test a couple before a long trip.
 

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A few years ago I filled up in a remote area in the Gaspe and 15 minutes later my snowmobile was sputtering.
I managed to slowly crawl to a street (an hour plus) and a dealer came with a trailer to get me ( after a nice long wait but grateful).
It turned out my fuel filters were clogged.

P.S. the location installed new tanks since.

I just bought one of these. I am going to bring it on my next trip to Quebec.
There is a video of it removing water and dirt.

 

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I'm not sure how the gasoline vendors are, but I've heard stories how some diesel vendors gut their filters so that they look like they are filtering but are not. This is due to maintenance cost both filters and labor plus the slowing of fueling islands when you have semi's pumping hundreds of gallons per stop. May also have weak bypass valves in filter heads to maintain high flow rate.
 
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You can actually buy empty filter canisters in several configurations from one of the major filter suppliers for fuel pumps.

 
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