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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
NewfieBullet asked about my recent campout in my popup shanty. Here's a writeup on what I used and how I fared.

The shelter is a Cabela's Ice Team Five-Sided 360TC Shelter. This was it's maiden voyage, so you can see some pieces of paper that were placed between the plastic windows and the flaps to protect the windows during shipping. It's the hub style of shelter that pops up really quick and easy once you know what to do (translation: RTFM). It somes with 5 ice anchors too, and I only put in 3 as I didn't expect much wind. Turned out there was none, but better safe than sorry.

r9cWxzu.jpg?1


There is plenty of room inside for one person and a lot of gear. I had a cot, a folding camp chair, a Hardigg crate for a table, and a Mr. Heater Big Buddy propane heater. Other stuff too. You could probably put two cots in there with a heater, but I'd want to check that out at home first to make sure it all fit.

RCvepOx.jpg?1


It got down to -16 F overnight. The pic here is when I went to bed at about 9:00 pm and it was -12 F. I had a 0 F sleeping bag, basic holofill type, also from Cabela's. Even with the heater going I was a little chilled until I put on fleece tops and bottoms and a fleece balaclava. From then on I was cozy warm.

YiHBfWB.jpg?1


I started off with the heater going full bore and it was warm inside, probably over 50 F. I was comfortable sitting in the chair with just a thermal top on, no coat. At full bore it puts out 18,000 BTU per hour and it wasn't too long before I started getting a melt puddle under the heater. Future use will have something to raise it a few inches.

nJLhg1D.jpg?1


This was a very cozy arrangement and I won't hesitate to camp out like this again. All the gear does use up a lot of sled real estate though. Also this was my first time out with my new freight sled and I've learned a few lessons about packing and securing the cargo.
 

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I have the same heater, that I use in my camping trailer in the fall.

I just put it on the floor, and I always thought that the vinyl flooring of the camper was getting quite hot.

Now I carry a 2ft X 2ft piece of Reflectix (lightweight aluminium bubble wrap, sold in hardware stores as insulation) and put it under the front of the Big Buddy. The Reflectix stays perfectly cold as it reflects the heat coming down from the heater, and the floor under it stay cold as well. So you might want to try that to prevent the snow from melting under your heater.
 

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Great stuff. It's a cheap way to get some winter camping in. Don't forget that the buddy heater puts out carbon monoxide. You need quite a bit of ventilation. My friend has one he put a wood stove in. Finds he gets a moisture build up. Works great for him when he wants to cut down on size.

RR
 

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Great stuff. It's a cheap way to get some winter camping in. Don't forget that the buddy heater puts out carbon monoxide. You need quite a bit of ventilation. My friend has one he put a wood stove in. Finds he gets a moisture build up. Works great for him when he wants to cut down on size.

RR
Very true, although the Buddy version of the Mr. Heater puts out much less carbon monoxide than the Mr. Heater, which can be deadly. I had a CO detector with me, and the highest level it measured was 76 ppm. I had both vents in the shelter open at that level. Opening one of the door zippers about 12 inches dropped it down to about 65 ppm. It doesn't sound the alarm until 400 ppm.

That's awesome. I've been so tempted to get one of those tents, though I'd like the double size one in case someone else was coming, and I'd like to modify it to be able to put in a woodstove.

I have just one question: Do you have that thermometer mounted there permanent?

:blink_old:
No, the thermometer is just propped there. It was a convenient place to have it oriented vertically. :headbang

This Cabelas shelter has a thinly insulated roof and just plain nylon side walls. The Clam insulated shelters look to have insulated fabric on all walls, and it seems a little thicker too. It ought to be warmer compared to mine. The windows in Clam and/or Eskimo shelters have Velcro and are removable and you can easily drop a stove jack in for wood stove heating. For this one you would have to do a permanent install. But this tent was my favorite kind... ON SALE! 30% off is hard to resist.

I have the same heater, that I use in my camping trailer in the fall.

I just put it on the floor, and I always thought that the vinyl flooring of the camper was getting quite hot.

Now I carry a 2ft X 2ft piece of Reflectix (lightweight aluminium bubble wrap, sold in hardware stores as insulation) and put it under the front of the Big Buddy. The Reflectix stays perfectly cold as it reflects the heat coming down from the heater, and the floor under it stay cold as well. So you might want to try that to prevent the snow from melting under your heater.
Good idea. That Reflectix would be a lot less bulky than whatever I was envisioning, saving space in the cargo sled.
 

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Industry standards set maximum exposure to carbon monoxide over an eight hour time period at 35 ppm. Prolonged exposure limits are set at 9 ppm.
 

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Great pics, i like winter camp, just need more time...

I got this idea from the U tube vids of the guy in yellowknife with the 4 stroke bear cat that would't start when it got cold, so he setup a tent and parked it inside!

I picked up An Eskimo 9416, interior area is huge. 14' x 7' enough room for 3 guys winter camping.

Tried it with a propane heater but found the moisture would freeze up on the walls so i took out one window, cut out a piece of tin to match the window and stuck some velcro on the tin and you have an instant stove pipe hole for wood heat. With so many windows you can move the stove around to any area of the tent.

Total weight of the whole package is about 55lbs, alot less then packing a forestry tent or propane and this sets up in a couple minutes and no frame needed.

A small air tight stove will keep it toasty warm @ - 30C. Nice dry heat and no need to haul fuel along.

Hers is a pic when i was testing the setup on my yard.
 

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Industry standards set maximum exposure to carbon monoxide over an eight hour time period at 35 ppm. Prolonged exposure limits are set at 9 ppm.
I'll look into this more. I had read somewhere recently, perhaps a CDC page, that 70 ppm exposure is generally okay except for elderly or those with weak hearts. I don't want to do myself in so will be following up on this. I am looking at putting up a Garage In A Box on the cabin property and having a wood stove in that. An extra stove jack in this tent would give me the wood stove option for sled camping.

Update

Per OSHA web page: https://www.osha.gov/dsg/annotated-pels/tablez-1.html

OSHA exposure limited to time-weighted average (TWA) of 50 ppm, California state OSHA limited to TWA of 25 ppm with ceiling exposure (peak) of 200 ppm. NIOSH recommended 10-hour TWA is 35 ppm, and ACGIH recommended 8-hour TWA of 25 ppm.

My 10 hours or so inside the tent with the propane heater running probably game me a TWA of at least 60 ppm, which is in excess of every regulatory and recommended threshold. I feel fine and it hasn't uhffected my intelligents. Nonetheless I will make sure to tweak ventilation in the future to keep exposure levels under 35 ppm.

The CO monitor is one I picked up at Costco at a good price, ten year lithium battery with a LCD display.
 

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I'll look into this more. I had read somewhere recently, perhaps a CDC page, that 70 ppm exposure is generally okay except for elderly or those with weak hearts. I don't want to do myself in so will be following up on this. I am looking at putting up a Garage In A Box on the cabin property and having a wood stove in that. An extra stove jack in this tent would give me the wood stove option for sled camping.

Update

Per OSHA web page: https://www.osha.gov/dsg/annotated-pels/tablez-1.html

OSHA exposure limited to time-weighted average (TWA) of 50 ppm, California state OSHA limited to TWA of 25 ppm with ceiling exposure (peak) of 200 ppm. NIOSH recommended 10-hour TWA is 35 ppm, and ACGIH recommended 8-hour TWA of 25 ppm.

My 10 hours or so inside the tent with the propane heater running probably game me a TWA of at least 60 ppm, which is in excess of every regulatory and recommended threshold. I feel fine and it hasn't uhffected my intelligents. Nonetheless I will make sure to tweak ventilation in the future to keep exposure levels under 35 ppm.

The CO monitor is one I picked up at Costco at a good price, ten year lithium battery with a LCD display
The CO monitor is a great precaution. Some people died up here a couple winters ago from a propane lamp running in a small cabin.
 

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I don't want to hijack the thread or go too much off topic, but before I decided to buy and use a Big Buddy Mr Heater I had a lot of concerns about CO poisoning, so I looked into this a little more deeper. Note that the subject of non-vented gas heaters often turn into a quite "heated" topic in some RV forums. Some are in the opinion that these heaters should be banned as they are absolutely unsafe, others like me feel confortable using them, but using some precautions.

First, not all propane heater are made the same. Some are open flame, some are catalytic, some are radiant (like the Mr Heater "buddy" units). More precisely, some recent designs incorporate a device called ODS - Oxygen Depletion Sensor. It is a very simple and failsafe device that will shut the heater off is the oxygen level gets below a certain threshold.

Some heater types will emit little or no CO as long as there is sufficient oxygen to feed them. In an enclosed space, as the heater burns off oxygen, CO emission rises due to incomplete combustion, hence the requirement to use them only in ventilated space or outside only. When this happens, there is usually still more than enough oxygen to breath. The danger is not the lack of oxygen, but the CO concentration. Usually, those unit equipped with ODS will usually shut down due to lack of oxygen before they start emitting significant amounts of CO.

The danger of CO is not only a matter concentration in ppm (parts per million). The length of the exposure is also a factor. A long exposure to a small concentration is as bad as a short exposure to a higher concentration.

Typically, approved CO detectors not only consider the ppm, but also the length of the exposure. They can sound the alarm at low concentrations is the CO has been present long enough.

Many heater types have been tested and compared by the United States Consumer Safety Commission. They have published two VERY interesting documents that can be downloaded:

https://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/103975/CO02.pdf

https://www.cpsc.gov/PageFiles/103972/CO03.pdf

Please take time to read them, you will find how much more secure the ODS-equipped heater are. Results are totally different for ODS units, as for CO emissions. You will also find why some types of heaters are downright dangerous, and should effectively be banned!!

This being said, any heater should be used according the the manufacturer's instructions, and for the Buddy Heaters, some ventilation is required. Also, common sense dictate the use of a CO detector. These are not expensive, and can save your life. Although I'm very confident in my Buddy heater, I will not sleep with the heater ON, and I NEVER use it without my CO detector. My detector is a battery-operated type that displays the ppm. With right ventilation, it never displayed anything but 0 ppm. These Mr Heaters are burning very clean, but please take the basic steps to protect yourself to avoid "waking up dead" in the morning...
 

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About CO concentrations, this is what I found when I researched this very subject, before I bought my Big Buddy. Numbers may be different from what has been posted avove, as this was like 4 years ago.

How much CO is dangerous? To put CO numbers in perspective:

In Canada, the CMHC (Canadian Mortgage & Housing Corporation, a Federal government agency) dictates a 25 ppm exposure limit for adults. Also, concerning CO detectors, they state that:

At 70 ppm, a CO alarm should sound after 1 to 4 hours of exposure.

At 150 ppm, the alarm should sound within 10 to 50 minutes.

At 200 ppm, symptoms are slight headache, dizziness & nausea after a 2-3 hours exposure. Alarm should sound within 35 minutes.

At 400 ppm, alarm should sound within 4 to 15 minutes.

At 800 ppm, dizziness, nausea, etc within 45 minutes, death within 2-3 hours.

At 1600 ppm, death within 1 hour.

At 13000 ppm, death within 1 to 3 minutes.

In USA, EPA states that the usual CO level measured in houses equipped with gas appliances (gas range) is 5 to 15 ppm if the appliance is is good working order. If misadjusted, 30 ppm or more.

According to the US Consumer Product Safety Commission, most people will not have any symptoms following a 70 ppm exposure.

OSHA CO exposure limit in the USA is 50 ppm over an 8 hour period.

CO levels in the breath of a smoker who just smoked in the preceding minutes, is around 25 to 150 ppm. While smoking, CO levels in his breath are 200 to 300 ppm. Breath of non-smokers exposed to cigarette smoke is 5-10 ppm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I was in my local Cabela's buying an Otter sled and noticed the Jason Mitchell five-sided hub shelter on sale for $321.00 (US). It is insulated and a grey fabric but otherwise looks to be the same construction as my Cabela's unit. I can't find it online at Cabela's but here's the product: http://www.joessportinggoods.com/product/clam-jason-mitchell-thermal-5000-pop-up-ice-shelter-35626.htm

The Anchorage store has all their ice-fishing gear marked down, looks like they're trying to clear out inventory. Prices in store are about 25% to 30% lower than online.
 

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Great pics, i like winter camp, just need more time...

I got this idea from the U tube vids of the guy in yellowknife with the 4 stroke bear cat that would't start when it got cold, so he setup a tent and parked it inside!

I picked up An Eskimo 9416, interior area is huge. 14' x 7' enough room for 3 guys winter camping.
Tried it with a propane heater but found the moisture would freeze up on the walls so i took out one window, cut out a piece of tin to match the window and stuck some velcro on the tin and you have an instant stove pipe hole for wood heat. With so many windows you can move the stove around to any area of the tent.
Total weight of the whole package is about 55lbs, alot less then packing a forestry tent or propane and this sets up in a couple minutes and no frame needed.
A small air tight stove will keep it toasty warm @ - 30C. Nice dry heat and no need to haul fuel along.
Hers is a pic when i was testing the setup on my yard.
We'll done. That setup is very practical and honestly quite tempting to try. The galvanized stove jack velcroed in is smart, the high ceiling almost right through is very practical and the speed of setup/no poles to cut is very appealing.

What model/sz is this shack exactly? Eskimo FatFish 7'x14' ?
 

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NewfieBullet asked about my recent campout in my popup shanty. Here's a writeup on what I used and how I fared.

The shelter is a Cabela's Ice Team Five-Sided 360TC Shelter. This was it's maiden voyage, so you can see some pieces of paper that were placed between the plastic windows and the flaps to protect the windows during shipping. It's the hub style of shelter that pops up really quick and easy once you know what to do (translation: RTFM). It somes with 5 ice anchors too, and I only put in 3 as I didn't expect much wind. Turned out there was none, but better safe than sorry.

r9cWxzu.jpg?1


There is plenty of room inside for one person and a lot of gear. I had a cot, a folding camp chair, a Hardigg crate for a table, and a Mr. Heater Big Buddy propane heater. Other stuff too. You could probably put two cots in there with a heater, but I'd want to check that out at home first to make sure it all fit.

RCvepOx.jpg?1


It got down to -16 F overnight. The pic here is when I went to bed at about 9:00 pm and it was -12 F. I had a 0 F sleeping bag, basic holofill type, also from Cabela's. Even with the heater going I was a little chilled until I put on fleece tops and bottoms and a fleece balaclava. From then on I was cozy warm.

YiHBfWB.jpg?1


I started off with the heater going full bore and it was warm inside, probably over 50 F. I was comfortable sitting in the chair with just a thermal top on, no coat. At full bore it puts out 18,000 BTU per hour and it wasn't too long before I started getting a melt puddle under the heater. Future use will have something to raise it a few inches.

nJLhg1D.jpg?1


This was a very cozy arrangement and I won't hesitate to camp out like this again. All the gear does use up a lot of sled real estate though. Also this was my first time out with my new freight sled and I've learned a few lessons about packing and securing the cargo.
A little OT, but that's one huge honkin UHMW sled you've got there, nice job. What are the completed dims? 12" sides? 36" bottom? 5' sheet width to start? Looks like it's a full 10' long after bends... I have an issue with brake length up here, largest one in town only has an 8' wide table.
 

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Eskimo Fat Fish 9416. Tent weighs 41lbs, has a door on each end, and 6'8" high. 7'10" x 13'11".
109 sq ft floor space.
There is an isulated version as well, little more weight but use less heat as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
A little OT, but that's one huge honkin UHMW sled you've got there, nice job. What are the completed dims? 12" sides? 36" bottom? 5' sheet width to start? Looks like it's a full 10' long after bends... I have an issue with brake length up here, largest one in town only has an 8' wide table.
I bought it from a local guy. I haven't put a tape measure to it but don't think it's quite that big. I was wanting to make my own but opted to take advantage of someone else's time and expertise. For folks in Anchorage area, he posts on AlaskasList.com in the Snowmobile section, search for UHMW sled.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
 

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I bought it from a local guy. I haven't put a tape measure to it but don't think it's quite that big. I was wanting to make my own but opted to take advantage of someone else's time and expertise. For folks in Anchorage area, he posts on AlaskasList.com in the Snowmobile section, search for UHMW sled.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Tks. If you get the chance sometime, I'd like to have a few measurements from it, namely the floor width before the sidewall bends start, the number of and distance between sidewall bends and the sidewall height. I like the sz of yours and those dims would help me to figure out how big a sheet I'd need.
 

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I'm curious as to how small that fish hut packs down to.

I'm really tempted to convert my komatik to a pop-up tent trailer, but I don't know that it would be much good for getting off the beaten path like that, so maybe a small tent that I can carry in my 'boggan would be a better option.

I can't believe how fast the winter is going, here we are the middle of Feb and the furthest I've been from home is separation lake. :(
 
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