[Johnnystock]

Hi all, I just thought I'd share my exp on what happened and what I am doing as a DYIer. I have zero exp on snowmobile, except last year track swap, axle bearing, carb cleaning and jetting on a summit carbed 600 2010.

So here is the story on my blown 800 etec 2012;
I bought the thing with a "rebuild engine". I noticed a good vibration on the clutch right from the start but I havent find any good info to see if its normal. I did inspect the clutch and it was all good.

I had belt blow out after 200km.

After last winter (roughly 250-300km top) the sled became very hard to start. I thought that was warm temperature. This automn, it was still really hard to start, so I thought bad gas. I managed to start it and it was going kinda strong at WOT, but ****tty idle. I thought bad plugs of wires.

I went for a first winter ride with my GF on the 600, and after 20kms the 800 stalled very abruptly. That did NOT feel good.

Had to tow the thing. I was able to start it while beeing towed and then I went back did some 1-2 WOT before shutting it down. It was running weird. Then parked it.

I did change the plugs and wires l, but the fire was strong anyway before at the look. Still no start. New battery just to be sure, the other was a bit weak.

I check compression : 34psi on clutch side. Damn...

So I decided I was going to tear it down myself.

I was about to check the runout on the crank and lets say it was either cracked or half destroyed; at least 1-2mm that I could feel with my hands.

So i removed the engine and it wen5 alright!

I removed the injectors to have them tested: turns out the cyl no2 inj was having problem at low rpm, thats why it was hard to start (with a no1 cyl blown too and a destroyed bottom end!).

What I think is that the last owner did not rebuild the bottom and just wanted to sell it. Crank let go and and took out rod num1. Cyl/piston 2 looks good.

BOUGHT ANOTHER USED ENGINE AND SPECS I LEARNED:
I spotted a supposedly rebuild engine and I made the mistake of trusting the guy but checked the engine the day after in my garage for the crank runout. It had 0.013". Big oooff. While there is no used crank specs from BRP, my friend bought a new one and at 0.005 while warrantied they would give you a new shortblock. So that told me it was crap. I was lucky enough that the vendor gave me my money back. Found another used engine from a machinist shop with 0.002 on the crank with 7300km.

Gonna buy another used injector, new filter in tank, inline, inspect my intakes (look goods at first) and then have the injector reprogrammed at dealer.

I beginning the reinstall this week!

Any feedback is appreciated!

 

[Daag44]

You are making strides on figuring the various runout that can be expected between engines. With the 0.013" you are beginning to see the ones with abnormally high runout that obviously would never have reached 16,000km, at least not running that high the whole time. By checking enough of them they can be seen reach into the twenties!

I bet you can better judge for yourself the runout spec for a used sled. 0.002" is surprisingly good with 7,300 km. I would be jumping of joy and doing everything I could to keep it there. It is the main reason that has pushed me to find better ways to install and remove the clutch. A couple of weeks ago I was sent a video of a latest method found.... Clutch removal, follow me for more tips and tricks

 

[Johnnystock]

You are making strides on figuring the various runout that can be expected between engines. With the 0.013" you are beginning to see the ones with abnormally high runout that obviously would never have reached 16,000km, at least not running that high the whole time. By checking enough of them they can be seen reach into the twenties!

I bet you can better judge for yourself the runout spec for a used sled. 0.002" is surprisingly good with 7,300 km. I would be jumping of joy and doing everything I could to keep it there. It is the main reason that has pushed me to find better ways to install and remove the clutch. A couple of weeks ago I was sent a video of a latest method found.... Clutch removal, follow me for more tips and tricks

Its hard to get data on the subject unless checking it yourself and working on lot of machines. I will for sure check on it everytimI get the chance.

About the numbers, I think its totally possible that some engines runs on a wild runout. But I'll leave that to others.

 

[FormTA]

Just an outside observation here but I would try a more ridged setup for checking runout. You could easily get false readings that way. I would have at least made a buck to bolt the engine down and then screwed a large metal place to that buck and then mounted the indicator to it.

But I do applaud you for taking on the engine swap. I have done a couple and they are no real picnic. FYI, make sure you blend the oil pump and line of air before start up.

Good luck and keep at it!

 

[Johnnystock]

Just an outside observation here but I would try a more ridged setup for checking runout. You could easily get false readings that way. I would have at least made a buck to bolt the engine down and then screwed a large metal place to that buck and then mounted the indicator to it.

But I do applaud you for taking on the engine swap. I have done a couple and they are no real picnic. FYI, make sure you blend the oil pump and line of air before start up.

Good luck and keep at it!

I did measure with a metal piece undee the engine it was the same.

As for the oil pump bleeding, thanks for the tip, I really didn't know I had to do this I see its done from the dealer. They have to setup the new injectors so I'll ask for that too and coolant bleed too.

 

[Daag44]

I think you have learned a great deal so far with taking the runout. It may not provide a true picture, but how do we qualify trueness? I may go into depth to find the variables, but that is how I learn what I need to focus on. For example I did the same as you to compare the measurements with different setups. This is also how I learnt the magneto flywheel on an E-TEC has a strong pull, but also something I don't need to worry about as long as I don't try to take a measurement between poles.

It's all these little things that add up. It is the same thing with the oil consumption. The attempt to find THE answer will bog anyone down. Instead I have shifted my focus to breaking it down to smaller parts and attempt to get each of them into the ball park. For example, when I work on an engine that is torn down, I begin by looking for any indication that one side starved for oil, and then I want to know if the check valves are working. Once it is back together with say $2,000 US of parts, I thinking to bleed the pump, but I am also thinking to give the engine more oil. The E-TEC is already feeding a lot of oil, but that is only true in the mid to upper rpm/load range. If there is a problem that I haven't caught during the teardown and rebuilt, I will make sure it gets enough oil to survive even if the oil pump does not work.

The first 10 km is what I worry about the most, but it still takes me at least 100 km before I can evaluate the oil consumption. The fashion that I break-in the engine and the reasonable amount of oil that I use during assembly assures (or reassures) me the bottom end will be fine even if it gets no added oil. At this point of the initial/first run on the trail, I most concerned short term which is to ensure the top end to survives even if there is a check-valve failure or a pinched oil line or whatever.

As DYI'ers we may only see such or such a problem once in five, ten or twenty years. On DooTalk we get to see the 1/100 or 1/1000 problems, with the most significant ones that originate from the engine failure and follows the rebuild. I only mentioned oil consumption, but there are many things that can be done to mitigate the risks. It is merely a strategy that helps to get by the tougher problems.

If you are looking for precision and wondering 'exactly' what I am saying, it is merely to a method to encourage anyone to reach beyond their conform zone by means to avoid looking at black&white approaches. To recap. your effort to take the crankshaft runout measurement on the pto side was brilliant. Now that you have taken those measurements, it may appear rudimentary, but it is not. The same principal applies applies to everything else from choosing a set of pistons/rings to clearances to cylinder replating and finish. The last piece of the puzzle is to question if you are willing to reach air/fuel and exhaust temperature. That is a tough one since it leaves you on your own to figure out if it is worth the effort. I always assume the one that dishes out the $,$$$ for a rebuild or used engine knows the answer.

 

[Olypopper]

Have your dealer reset the breakin clock while he's programming the injector coefficients. These engines really are simple once you play in a few of them and figure out the Etec side of things.

 

[Johnnystock]

Have your dealer reset the breakin clock while he's programming the injector coefficients. These engines really are simple once you play in a few of them and figure out the Etec side of things.

Thanks for the detailed answer. It makes me think like the other forums I am on: you gotta find the most "reliable and repetable info" and make your mind from there.

I will have the dealer reset the clock.

I ran into a little problem: the in-tank filter is not compatible with the aftermarket fuel pump it has in there; the filter opening is too small from BRP. This is a generic pump it it fits with an automobile part I got from car Quest. I have a number from NAPA; B0052S. Luckily they had it in stock.

Now the injector thing: I was given info that some injectors work on some year and other not. This is false. They all canbe reprogrammed at the dealer depending on your PCM year.

Getting all the little details worked out. If I get my injector by mail today, I can wrap this up tonight and start it (just to see leaks and what not. Then bring it to BRP.

 

[Johnnystock]

this is the filter I have in tank. I will have my fuel pressure tested...just to make sure the pump pushes enough psi.

 

[Johnnystock]