[Daag44]

I just got out of garage..... I started it up pulled the code only the p1562.... I had my meter on it the entire time, with a little throttle voltage was up around 14.7 consistently. I pulled the capacitor out and gave it a smell and it wasn't that bad, but when I smell the plastic that the capacitor sits in, that stinks like burnt. I checked the inspection shield and it looks pierced to me... The manual says if it's pierced then to replace it. I will post a pic of it and hope someone chimes in... Thanks guys have a good night.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Nice pictures!!! Remove the black plastic protective cover by prying it off. it is there to prevent an accidental short, but I'm sure you will be careful when prying it off, and it will likely be discharged. This will allow you to get a better look at the top for any bulging or piercing.

The P1562 code means either the stator is not producing enough voltage, or there is a component in the 60 Vdc System that is shorted and draining the the power from the stator. I will add the Power Distribution Chart for the ETEC, but the components on the 60 Vdc System are the injectors, ignition coils, fuel pump, oil pump and the capacitor.

With the Capacitor removed from the sled - which it currently is - measure the voltage output while cranking over the engine. The positive test leas needs to be secured to the positive terminal that is normally connected to the capacitor, but make sure it cannot inadvertently touch the chassis and short to ground as this will cause a short in the ECM. The negative probe goes to the chassis/frame.

The same test is done by disconnecting each component on the 60 Vdc System. You can do this with or without the capacitor, but the voltage should be higher with a good capacitor.

 

[Daag44]

Pulled a p1562..... Manual doesn't say anything about stator.... They say bad wire loose connection or capacitor...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

P1562 is explained in the Troubleshooting and Tech Tips provided to the dealers. There is a LOT of stuff missing from the Shop Manuals not to mention the odd mistakes that are difficult to find. Fortunately we have a copy of one of the Tech Tips in a 2012 Shop Manual that one of the DooTalk members has shared with us. I have those up to 2011, but from 2012 and on we need to get a copy from BRP. There are also Warranty Bulletins that fill other gaps. No joke it is a struggle with only a Shop Manual, not to mention we lack the certification courses that BRP provides the dealer techs.... at least the ones that get sent to take them... There is also a dealer forum which only some techs participate. Those are a lot of reasons to separate the good dealers with poor ones.

 

[Daag44]

So can someone clarify something, the one part of the stator charges the capacitor, the 2nd part is primary voltage for the cluster and other things and the third is for accessories? If this is true, is it possible to check the voltage at the capacitor with engine running. Kind of like checking to see if an alternator is charging a battery. You would be looking for 50-60 volts...... I will not try this until someone else with more experience chimes in.....

FWIW, it just doesn't make since that the stator is bad because of the smoke that comes from the sled..... My headlights, heated plug , 12v plug heated grips all work fine....

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

The power from the stator gets regulated by the ECM which has an integrated Voltage Regulator (VR). Below a certain rpm, or while cranking the engine, the VR switches each of the 3 phases of the stator into series to raise the cranking voltage, like connecting three AA batteries into series to raise the voltage for a flashlight. This is the voltage you are currently testing with when cranking over the engine. At very low cranking speed the voltage won't even reach 60 Vdc, but it should rise above 30 Vdc to get enough for the injectors to operate. It is only the injectors that operate at this high DC voltage. All other components powered by the 60 Vdc system get pulsed down. For example the fuel pump works at around 44 Vdc if I remember correctly.

As for the Primary and Secondary 12 Vdc systems, they are not even working until the engine reaches 800 rpm for the Primary 12 Vdc system, and 1900 rpm + 3 seconds to charge the battery. Since this is well above the cranking speed of your testing, you won't need to worry about the 12 Vdc System Voltage nor any components fed off of those circuits.

is it possible to check the voltage at the capacitor with engine running

Absolutely. This is measuring voltage on the 60 Vdc BUS. Since you are drawing a comparison with an alternator on autos, the alternator is a combination of the stator and the VR integrated in the ECM. So you have two things to check when the engine is running, the AC voltage of the 3 stator windings, and the DC voltage on the 60 Vdc BUS.

FWIW, it just doesn't make since that the stator is bad because of the smoke that comes from the sled..... My headlights, heated plug , 12v plug heated grips all work fine..

You make a good point. Something to keep in mind is the current that feeds the 12 Vdc BUS is provided by the 60 Vdc BUS that is stepped down by a DC to DC converter. So if the 60 Vdc BUS is taxed, as long as the voltage is higher than 14 Vdc, then the 12 Vdc BUS can still show the normal ~14 Vdc (say 14.2 to 14.8).

 

[Daag44]

Ok thanks daag.... So I just went and tried to get codes from it and it didn't work, does the sled have to be running in order to get the codes? So if I can't get codes my plan of attack is take capacitor out and visually look and then smell it? Should I check the capacitor charge hold test after that? Plan on working on it a little tonight.... Thanks

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I seem to be replying in the reverse order. I see that you did got the codes, so you figured out the sled needed to run to pull the codes. There is another way, but it's more complex without the use of BUDS or a CanDoo.

If you can do both tests in the Shop Manual all the better. There are two tests. The first one is the Capacitor Charge Hold Test which it done with the capacitor connected to the sled. The second one is the Capacitor Residual Voltage Test which is done on a workbench, but requires a 300 ohm / 5W resistor. I don't know where you will get one of those.

Of course you could also take the capacitor out and use a Multimeter. It's not a perfect test without a power source that reaches 60 Vdc or at least a voltage that is near enough. I would use the 12 Vdc battery in the sled to charge the capacitor to see if it can take the voltage, then disconnect the battery to monitor the voltage discharge. I should be good enough to show any obvious problems.

As an alternate to a 300 ohm / 5W resistor which I suspect few would have handy, a 12 Vdc test light or even a 12 Vdc shop light could be used. I don't have a capacitor for the ETEC handy, but I could test with an SDI capacitor if needed. In any case the majority of electrical troubleshooting will show an obvious problem with a relatively easy test.

I hope it helps. From your posts it is a good guess that you can manage quite well with troubleshooting.

 

[Daag44]

By the way, what year shop manual are you using?

 

[bigmachdaddy]

I am using the 2012 manual. That's the only one I have..... I took the cover off the capacitor, I'll post those pics.... Daag I haven't read all your posts from last night yet, got up super late this morning and had to get the kids off to school.... I really appreciate your help thus far, this is why I love this site. Take care

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Thumb2bar]

Surprised you were unable to pinpoint source of smell/smoke when you opened panel. Pull start or E start or both?

 

[mbret2004]

Great info Daag.

 

[bigmachdaddy]

Here is with the cover off

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Judge64]

Where did the dent come from? Removing it?

 

[bigmachdaddy]

Where did the dent come from? Removing it?

It's dented all the way around it.. almost looks like it's supposed to be like that

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[bigmachdaddy]

Surprised you were unable to pinpoint source of smell/smoke when you opened panel. Pull start or E start or both?

Both.... I removed starter the other day because the spring was weak and starter wasn't working ... Gear kept contacting clutch gear so I removed it before this ride.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Judge64]

It's dented all the way around it.. almost looks like it's supposed to be like that

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Maybe some electronics experts can chime in but I was always under the impression that dented capacitors are a bad thing and should be replaced because the internal layers could be damaged. Some have said a minor dent may be ok but that looks to be a good size dent.

 

[Daag44]

Here is with the cover off

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

The top and bottom look good. No bulging, no signs of fluid leakage, and no burnt marks at the connections. The top picture shows abnormal wear on casing, but I assume it isn't perforated?

I just came back from the garage after performing both tests on a 20 Vdc 68,0000 uF Capacitor for the SDI.

For the Capacitor Charge Hold Test I charged the capacitor with a spare auto battery I had lying around @ 12.4 Vdc. Within 60 seconds the capacitor discharged slowly and held 11.95 Vdc. The voltage drop was gradual with nothing out of the ordinary.

For the Capacitor Residual Voltage Test I used a Test Light for the discharge which worked awesome! It took 10 seconds to discharge into the tenths of a volt, and 15 second to deplete the capacitor into the hundreds.

I have no reference for either test, but to me this looks great! This is what I meant by looking for obvious problems with a simple test. I could go further, but so far I find nothing of concern.

CAUTION: Like a shop manual, I need to seriously warn you with the setup. Charging a capacitor is no joke. I have a good setup with test leads and a switch as mentioned in the shop manual. The switch is one I use as a temporary install of a Wideband and EGTs for when I test newly rebuild sleds and don't want to be surprised by $3000 lean or pre-ignition failure. I also tried without the switch and wow that is some serious charging/welding current with good sparks that could cause serious problems.

So when you use your sled battery, make sure that all ring terminals from harness, starter solenoid and ground are disconnected from the battery. Also take the time to make good test leads for secure connections between the multimeter and capacitor. No joke these are serious tests.

 

[bigmachdaddy]

I charged the capacitor with a car battery and it seems to hold the voltage very well, actually has held from 12.44 to 11.53 for well over an hour..... Used a test light to discharge it and it performed just like daags test..

Looks like I will be putting it back in and checking what the voltage is at at the capacitor when turning the engine over

Daag can u confirm that that is my next step.... I'm thinking I don't have a bad capacitor

Does that read piece looked pierced at all? It's definitely pointed up in the middle.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Thumb2bar]

Did you remove the starter lead all the way back to solenoid? Did you check solenoid after the smell/smoke issue?

 

[bigmachdaddy]

Did you remove the starter lead all the way back to solenoid? Did you check solenoid after the smell/smoke issue?

No I didn't, I taped the crap out of the end and wire tied it out of the way.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Daag44]

I charged the capacitor with a car battery and it seems to hold the voltage very well, actually has held from 12.44 to 11.53 for well over an hour..... Used a test light to discharge it and it performed just like daags test..

Looks like I will be putting it back in and checking what the voltage is at at the capacitor when turning the engine over

Daag can u confirm that that is my next step.... I'm thinking I don't have a bad capacitor

Does that read piece looked pierced at all? It's definitely pointed up in the middle.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

So far I am thinking the same that the capacitor is good.

PDF p.460 in the 2012 shop manual shows an example of the fluid leakage seen on the protector cap. You didn't find any signs of leakage over or under the protector cap. Since you had detected a bad odor the capacitor was the obvious place to check first, but like you I no longer believe it has anything to do with the capacitor.

For the next step, starting the sled is absolutely not the next step. I am glad you asked and hope that I caught you in time. I would prefer to remove each plug behind the ECM to visibly check the connections. Remove whatever you need to gain good access to the area that has a burnt smell to inspect components and the harness.

 

[Daag44]

I thought it was time to bring out the Timeline - Point Form format. It took some time and guessing to piece it together from the description in your first post, so you'll need to double-check to see if it is accurate.

Saturday March 9th
- A strange odor was detected after about 100 miles of riding.
- Around the same time a new dry bearing type of noise was heard from in front and slightly on the PTO side.
- ~300 foot from a stop sign the check engine light came on and displayed REV LIMITED.
- Coasted to the stop sign, went to get off the sled, but it beeped several times and I shut her down.
- Got off the sled and noticed light smoke coming from right panel, so I open it and all I smelled was burning electrical.
- Start the engine and the gauge cluster was dead for about 2-3 seconds.
- The gauge needles did their sweep real slow and the digital rpm came up on the dash.
- It idled really low for a few seconds then quit.
- Fast forward 30-40 minutes when we reached the truck and trailer.
- Started it back up and it idled great for a few minutes and drove it in the trailer, still smelling burning electrical.

Sunday March 10th
- I get it home and fire it up in the garage.
- Let it idle for 10 minutes while checking battery voltage.
- 13.6 at idle.
- 14.8 roughly, holding steady throttle @ ~2000 rpm.
- Held the throttle at about 2000 rpms for a minute, then let it idle for another 10 min.
- Ran it at 35 mph on the lift for a few minutes.
- Did this three times, and each time it was brought back to idle it started to die.
- When it's starting to die the battery voltage is down to 12.16 , then with throttle input it will pick back up to low 13s.
- I am leaning towards the stator, but when I put my hose near that blue capacitor it smells awful.

Monday March 11th
- Pulled P1562 Low Voltage Fault Code
- Possible Cause: Damaged Circuit Wires, Connectors, Injectors, Ignition Coils, Oil Pump, Capacitor or ECM.

Warranty Bulletin for known stator issues on MY2013 of the 800RE.
Summary:
What to look for when P1562 or P1563 fault code are triggered on a 2013 800 E-tec
TST Detail:
Recent investigations have revealed an issue causing the above fault codes to be seen via BUD's. The codes involve high and low voltage codes and are the result of the stator output wires being damaged.

Tuesday March 12th
- Capacitor Visual and Odor inspection passed.
- Capacitor Charge Hold Test passed.
- Capacitor Residual Voltage Test passed.

To Do:

- Find electrical odor near the Capacitor. ECM???

- Disconnect ECM for a Visual and Odor inspection of the ECM and its connectors.
ECM Removal
PDF page 356, 357, 358

- While ECM is removed, Visual and Odor inspection of remaining components powered by the 60 Vdc System Voltage BUS (Injectors, Ignition Coils, Oil Pump).

- Injector wires have been known to chafe and short.

- Reconnect ECM, Capacitor and Battery.

- Measure 60 Vdc System Voltage (Red on capacitor +, Black on chassis). Min 30 Vdc while cranking over the engine.

- Disconnect components on 60 Vdc System Voltage BUS one at a time and measure for a voltage increase. This will determine if any of the components are shorted and drawing down the System Voltage (aka ECM output).

 

[bigmachdaddy]

I meant that checking voltage at the capacitor while pulling the motor over with kill switch shut off to see if I had my 60 volts from the stator to the capacitor. Maybe trying it a few times. I could always put my meter on min/max to catch the highest voltage

I ordered a new used capacitor off eBay capacitor has 791 miles on it.... if it doesn't change anything I have a spare.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk