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First I will say again that I am not anti EV, I am pro choice and feel we can continue to improve gas vehicles and have them remain, letting EVs take over in time if they improve enough to be truly suitable for everyone. They may or not reach a point. I would be happy to try an EV for one of my next vehicles, but not replace all.

Some recent posts have been off track and somewhat offensive. I don’t know that this thread can go much further until some new developments happen, we are just going around in circles.

Stevo9, wondering why you chose to single out F150s as opposed to just saying “my ICE vehicle” especially when all the examples you took the time to post were not F150s? If you think it’s such a piece of crap why do you own it? I am extremely happy with mine and it hasn’t let me down.

The last posts have brought my country and my truck into question, not really necessary.
 

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First I will say again that I am not anti EV, I am pro choice and feel we can continue to improve gas vehicles and have them remain, letting EVs take over in time if they improve enough to be truly suitable for everyone. They may or not reach a point. I would be happy to try an EV for one of my next vehicles, but not replace all.

Some recent posts have been off track and somewhat offensive. I don’t know that this thread can go much further until some new developments happen, we are just going around in circles.

Stevo9, wondering why you chose to single out F150s as opposed to just saying “my ICE vehicle” especially when all the examples you took the time to post were not F150s? If you think it’s such a piece of crap why do you own it? I am extremely happy with mine and it hasn’t let me down.

The last posts have brought my country and my truck into question, not really necessary.
I just mentioned the F150 because I own one. What happened in those examples could happen to any vehicle. I never said my F150 is a piece of crap. I would probably buy another if I was in the market to buy a truck today but it has it's flaws like just like anything does (60,000 miles in and still debating if should put a catch can on it). My objective was simply to highlight that gasoline is not exactly safe and our ICE vehicles aren't the perfect model of reliability either. We've just become accustomed to them and accepted the flaws. EV's are still new and we just aren't as accustomed to some of their flaws so at times they get exaggerated. I agree with everything in the first part of your comment and have said that previously.

I guess I didn't see anything that offensive here but I have some users ignored. I wouldn't get too worried about the truck. Apologies if any of the links I shared rubbed someone the wrong way. Just looking to present things from a different perspective. I don't expect anything to get solved here and sure, we are going around circles. Aren't we just making conversation to distract ourselves from work. What's wrong with that? Seems to me that the discussion has been more reasonable than it was early on but again, I have some users ignored.
 

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Of course a fire can happen with any of them - that was my point. Batteries certainly aren't as perfect as some would like us to think.
 
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I just mentioned the F150 because I own. What happened in those examples could happen to any vehicle. I never said my F150 is a piece of crap. I would probably buy another if I was in the market to buy a truck today but it has it's flaws like just like anything does (60,000 miles in and still debating if should put a catch can on it). My objective was simply to highlight that gasoline is not exactly safe and our ICE vehicles aren't the perfect model of reliability either. We've just become accustomed to them and accepted the flaws. EV's are still new and we just aren't as accustomed to some of their flaws so at times they get exaggerated. I agree with everything in the first part of your comment and have said that previously.

I guess I didn't see anything that offensive here but I have some users ignored. I wouldn't get too worried about the truck. Apologies if any of the links I shared rubbed someone the wrong way. Just looking to present things from a different perspective. I don't expect anything to get solved here and sure, we are going around circles. Aren't we just making conversation to distract ourselves from work. What's wrong with that? Seems to me that the discussion has been more reasonable than it was early on but again, I have some users ignored.
Things absolutely happen with gas vehicles, fires and all. I think many of us are not really in disagreement at all on this whole topic of electric vehicles. Things will evolve as they do. Only time will tell if and when EVs can take over as per the current plan by some governments. Even if they don’t completely replace gas, they are going to gain a big share of the market In the attempt.

I am not ready to give up on my gas vehicles yet, even though I am fairly environmentally conscious. I am willing to try an EV in the near future though as a commuter car. I just can’t imagine everyone driving electric as far as long distance driving, can’t see how there can be enough charging available since it isn’t a 5 min fill up ( max for gas). Take winter conditions into account, aging batteries only makes it worse.

Yes overall this thread has been respectful, better than a lot.
 

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This thread is going over the line. NO POLITICAL post. I will clean this up and watch the thread. If it continues the thread gets locked..
 

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For the announcement that Quebec plans for a 100% EV sales by 2035, that is not correct. There will still be sales of used ICE, and PHEV which are ICE.

So this corrosive fear has been debunked.

In the same announcement it was also said that we currently do not have the technology nor the infrastructure to make this happen. Add to this that the Lithium technology is in its infancy, and if the people don't want to buy them then it will not happen. In other words, such a plan is symbolic.

Conversely, people in Quebec do want to buy them and they are, hence why it is so easy for Quebec to make such an announcement. In other words, they are riding the wave of overwhelming Quebec consumers who are ready to lead in this direction. This is one thing that Quebec neglected to consider with proposing an ICE ban that is not really a ban, but rather an objective that is driven by the people of Quebec.

It does not even need to happen as it is not important. What is does, is it puts Quebec as a leader along with British Columbia which were the first out of the gate. California has a major influence on BC, hence the early adoption. BC is to Canada what California is to the US, and Quebec is to Canada what Vermont is the US. It is a loose comparison, but close enough to relate between our two countries.

So now you have Quebec and Vermont thinking they have no intention of being on the back bench while California and BC are playing the game. Like any entrepreneur, to make a profit from development, sales and use of EVs, these provinces and states need to demonstrate being forerunners in the adoption of EVs.

Hence the corrosive fear of ICE being banned by 2035 without even proposing to band ICE. Marketing is the most powerful tool on the planet.
 

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You make some good points. Will your reasoning of competition between neighbours cross over into a Quebec/Ontario thing? I think they will feel some pressure, and it’s a good thing. EVs are a good thing, having a ban in Montreal should do wonders for the air quality there. However, they are just too far from being able to completely take over, it will be interesting to see where things are by that time - though I am not wishing time away.

Daag, you are a friend so don’t want to pick on you but the fact the ban by 2035 was on new vehicles only was mentioned early on. I mentioned it in my post on page 5 of the thread, and it may have been mentioned earlier. Also the ban on non EVs in the downtown core of Montreal is a ban. The ban on new sales of non EVs is a ban. Yes, used will be around but I will be curious how affordable gas will be at that time. You may very likely be correct that the “plan” is symbolic and may change. We will see.

My stance on the fear of an ICE ban is unchanged. Nothing has been debunked. It is still in place for 2030 and 2035. Until that changes I will assume it is still the plan. Less than 10 years from now, I will have to get into downtown Montreal by metro I suppose, and I will not be able to buy a new ICE vehicle in less than 15 years. Depending on gas prices, any projected absolute ban, any extra costs, production and cost of ICE vehicles at the time, it may not even be possible to buy one in the several years leading up to 2035. Try buying one today. Last year of production of ICE vehicles - unless EVs are the cats behind by then, I am sure ICE will be sold out early.
 

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Turbopete, the supply is going to be a problem, so who knows if it will even be feasable by 2035. Roughly half of EVs sold in Canada are purchased in Quebec. The bold move is an attempt to persuade builders and retailers to focus on Quebec's EV market with the hope that it will be easier to supply. Consider 5M registered cars in Quebec, of them 92,000 EV as of Dec 2020. The projection is 1.5M EV/PHEV by 2030, so that's 4.5M to go......

For the neighboring competition, there are advantages to let Quebec test the waters and learn from their mistakes. I would not be surprised to see a corridor of Montreal turning to EV/PHEV possibly before 2040. It will take years of urban planning, so the earlier they start the better.

Ontario and Quebec account of over 60% of road motor vehicles in Canada. With Ontario being nearly twice the population of Quebec, that's a large market for EVs even if the province trails a little behind Quebec which is a question of perspective. Ontario has 1,584 public charging stations with Quebec at 2,837, but Ontario has sprouted 4,349 charging outlets which is near Quebec at 5,577 . Ontario is just as conscious as Quebec, so I expect the difference to narrow over the years.

Electric Charging Locations


It's the fine print of the ban that shows we will still be able to buy ICE cars after 2035, but they will need to be equipped with a rechargeable battery. You can imagine how many of those will be around in 2035, and ICE will keep developing as there are no projected band for PHEV.

For the affordability, I think we will be building our own EVs well before then. One of our 3 high quality Lithium batteries just died yesterday. This had me think why bother with Lithium when we can use existing and proven AGM battery technology that is cheaper, no issues in the cold, and will probably be easier to find. I think geoff is a good example of DIY EV.

How to Build an Electric Car | Top Gear
 

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It's the fine print of the ban that shows we will still be able to buy ICE cars after 2035, but they will need to be equipped with a rechargeable battery. You can imagine how many of those will be around in 2035, and ICE will keep developing.

For the affordability, I think we will be building our own EVs well before then. One of our 3 high quality Lithium batteries just died yesterday. This had me think why bother with Lithium when we can use existing and proven AGM battery technology that is cheaper, no issues in the cold, and will probably be easier to find. I think geoff is a good example of DIY EV.

How to Build an Electric Car | Top Gear
What fine print? It clearly says all vehicles sold after 2035 are zero emission. Hybrids are not zero emission.
Also the Government said it’s going to set interm targets for 2025 and 2030. So we will sit back and watch what gets banned on those dates.


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What fine print? It clearly says all vehicles sold after 2035 are zero emission. Hybrids are not zero emission.
Also the Government said it’s going to set interm targets for 2025 and 2030. So we will sit back and watch what gets banned on those dates.


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You are spreading false information for Quebec.


Nov 14th, 2020


From 2035, in Quebec, we will no longer be able to buy gasoline vehicles [in the new market]. It will have to be fully electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles.

À partir de 2035, au Québec, on ne pourra plus acheter de véhicules à essence [dans le marché du neuf]. Ça devra être des véhicules entièrement électriques ou hybrides rechargeables.

Benoit Charette, ministre de l'Environnement
 

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You are spreading false information for Quebec.


Nov 14th, 2020

À partir de 2035, au Québec, on ne pourra plus acheter de véhicules à essence [dans le marché du neuf]. Ça devra être des véhicules entièrement électriques ou hybrides rechargeables.

Benoit Charette, ministre de l'Environnement
My god man, 1, I dont speak or read french very well.
2, Im referring to Canada, a Federal mandate. Not what a single province is doing.
The 2035 target is a UN target.
So if Quebec is going against the zero emission mandate than good on them,

I have been talking about the CANADIAN federal level this whole time. This has been on the news and in car magazines So no, I am not spreading misinformation.

Again, I see the ICE in powersports disappearing long before the 2035 deadline i this crazy Idea comes to fruition.


Canada set to ban sale of fuel-powered cars & trucks by 2035[/HEADING]
Canada will ban the sale of fuel-burning new cars and light-duty trucks from 2035 in an effort to reach net-zero emissions across the country by 2050, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government said on Tuesday.

Only zero-emissions cars and trucks can be sold from 2035, according to a statement, adding that a mixture of investments and regulations will help industry transition toward that goal. The government also said it will set interim targets for 2025 and 2030.

“We are committed to aligning Canada’s zero-emission vehicles sales targets with those of the most ambitious North American jurisdictions,” Environment Minister Jonathan Wilkinson said in the statement.

Britain said last year it would ban fuel-powered vehicles from 2030, while the United States has yet to fix a date. California, the largest U.S. auto market, said last year it would move to electric vehicles starting in 2035, and the Canadian province of Quebec has set the same target.

British Columbia is phasing out fuel-powered cars and trucks with a total ban coming into effect in 2040.
“We will work with the United States to harmonize fuel efficiency regulations and we’re investing in consumer rebates, charging stations, business tax breaks and industry transition costs,” Wilkinson added.
Trudeau, 49, has pledged to put Canada, the second-largest country by land mass in the world, on a path to net-zero emissions by 2050. Shifting transportation away from fossil fuels is key to meeting that goal.
Canadians broadly support fighting climate change, and Trudeau is expected to trigger an election as soon as September to rid himself of his dependence on opposition support in a minority parliament.
“Canada cannot reach our greenhouse gas targets if emissions from cars, SUVs and pickups, which are currently growing, are not curtailed,” said Keith Brooks, programs director at advocacy group Environmental Defence, who welcomed the move.
Brooks said only 3.5% of vehicles now sold in Canada are electric and that the government needs to do more to support the market for zero-emissions vehicles.


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ICE will still be sold across Canada after 2035 as a PHEV which is both ICE and a zero emission vehicle. You will be able to buy that pickup and cross Canada with gasoline.
 

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ICE will still be sold across Canada after 2035 as a PHEV which is both ICE and a zero emission vehicle. You will be able to buy that pickup and cross Canada with gasoline.
A hybrid is not zero emission. Look at the emissions rating on one.


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A hybrid is not zero emission. Look at the emissions rating on one.


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You are looking at HEV (Hybrid Electric Vehicles) which can only be charged through regenerative braking.

PHEV has both ICE and zero emissions EV.
 

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yeah, we suffer while other enormous countries could care less, laugh, and continue spewing, and raking in money from us.
 
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You are looking at HEV (Hybrid Electric Vehicles) which can only be charged through regenerative braking.

PHEV has both ICE and zero emissions EV.
No I am not. PHEV CO emissions are slightly lower than a hybrid, look at a window sticker. How can a vehicle be deemed zero emission when that engine is rated to put out 85grams of CO per Mile.
Zero emission means full electric.


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No I am not. PHEV CO emissions are slightly lower than a hybrid, look at a window sticker. How can a vehicle be deemed zero emission when that engine is rated to put out 85grams of CO per Mile.
Zero emission means full electric.


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With a full battery charge it can be driven with no use of the ICE, hence zero emissions.


Can I drive a plug-in-hybrid without the gas engine kicking in?

You can drive them as an electric vehicle (EV) until the battery runs out, and then it switches to gas.

“It is possible to drive in pure EV mode when the battery is properly charged, and the gas engine will not kick in,” Romaric Lartilleux, Toyota Canada spokesman, said in an e-mail. “Actually, some Prius Prime and RAV4 Prime owners have put several thousand kilometres on them without using a single drop of fuel.”
 

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This is part of the announcement made by the minister of environment translated to English. The articled is link to the date which anyone can translate to English using Google Translate.

It clearly states PHEV.


Nov 14th, 2020

From 2035, in Quebec, we will no longer be able to buy gasoline vehicles [in the new market]. It will have to be fully electric or plug-in hybrid vehicles.

Benoit Charette, ministre de l'Environnement
 

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The Lightning is the first EV that has my attention. Then again since I've retired I don't need the 700 mile range (you read that right) of my F150 EB.

Range on my Super Duty varies a bunch, as 95% of it's miles are truly work miles. Last week it was towing my dump trailer with over 4 ton of stone. Could my F150 have pulled the same load? On paper sure it could have, the SD just does it without drama. Even with the SD I needed 4 wheel drive coming out of the quarry, it's a pretty steep climb.
 
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