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My 2008 mxz 800 is having trouble with elec start. Manually starts, and does go in reverse. I suspected the starter soilinoid above battery so I got new one, installed it and 1st try elec start worked, shut it off didnt work anymore yet manually starts. So I bought another starter solenoid, installed 1st try it started, shut off doesnt work.
Put 12v to the old starter soilinoid and it clicks on the bench.
I put my volt meter to one of the little wires that go to the solinoid and I get battery voltage, 12.7v when hit start button,, I do same to the other little wire I get 12.7v when hit start button. (Thought one would be a ground?)<-- issue?
I can jump the soilinoid and starts.
After that 1st start up when I push start button I dont hear a click at the soilinoid.
With battery connected and I remove both little wires from solinoid I put my meter to the wire and ground on frame, one wire I get 1v, other i get .75v that is with not hitting start button.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I replaced both 30 and 5 and same results.
I read in manual the the two small wires to solinoid, one is positive and one negative,, I'm getting 12v from both when button pushed.
 

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Interesting, sorry I have no knowledge of the 2008. My 2012 had a odd issue that caused me to dig into "how it should work".

For a 2012 with DESS key installed kill switch in run and engine off, when you push the button 12 volts flows to the solenoid on the wire from the start switch, the ECM provides and controls a path to "Ground" in order to make the solenoid complete the path for the starter to engage. Once the ECM detects the engine is running it then prevents "ground" at that solenoid so when you press the button while running you only get reverse. (My issue was that wire rubbed a hole in it to ground so I would get reverse AND start while engine is running, that is a sound you never want to hear trust me!!!)

In your case voltage on both small wires sounds like an "issue". To be clear here, you pull them both all the way off the solenoid when you say you have 12 volts both wires when start is pressed correct? (Not both connected and you read 12 volts on both sides of the solenoid when start is pressed which would mean you have no "ground" that far end of that wire such as the ECM in my 2012)

When you swapped the solenoid you reported each time start worked "once". Assume you were safe and disconnected the battery before you worked on wiring. What happens if you just disconnect the battery way a few minutes time then reconnect? (Attempting to see if you have something "hanging up" so to speak along the path, far to odd for that to happen more than once) Perhaps the system still thinks the sled is running so it won't give the solenoid "ground"? (But that does not explain the 12 volts when you press start so we need that cleared up. . .)

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes with both small wires pulled off the solenoid, I check each one at a time with meter rod, pos to the wire and ground rod to frame, both give 12v.
I have removed ground from battery then connected and same result. Bust tonight so cant mess with it,, but I will run out there now since battery disconnected last night, will see if that time with no power allows it to start,,.. Back in,, no start.
My test tomorrow, I'm going to take a small wire with alligator clip to the lower small terminal, and ground it to battery,, and connect top small wire to soilinoid, ( I do know that kicks 12.8v when button pushed), and try to start,, i think it will. Question is if it starts i may hit button again to see if reverse works,,, or do I get a massive grind.
If ECM stops the 12v when running it should work,,,, if ecm manages differently and turns the ground to a positive to stop starter when running I'll get the grind.
If all goes well with this test, my ground wire to soilinoid is chaffed to the positive wire going to solenoid,, makes sense. Have to wait till tomorrow after work, I'll report back.
 

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Yes with both small wires pulled off the solenoid, I check each one at a time with meter rod, pos to the wire and ground rod to frame, both give 12v.
I have removed ground from battery then connected and same result. Bust tonight so cant mess with it,, but I will run out there now since battery disconnected last night, will see if that time with no power allows it to start,,.. Back in,, no start.
My test tomorrow, I'm going to take a small wire with alligator clip to the lower small terminal, and ground it to battery,, and connect top small wire to soilinoid, ( I do know that kicks 12.8v when button pushed), and try to start,, i think it will. Question is if it starts i may hit button again to see if reverse works,,, or do I get a massive grind.
If ECM stops the 12v when running it should work,,,, if ecm manages differently and turns the ground to a positive to stop starter when running I'll get the grind.
If all goes well with this test, my ground wire to soilinoid is chaffed to the positive wire going to solenoid,, makes sense. Have to wait till tomorrow after work, I'll report back.
I HOPE YOU READ THIS BEFORE THE SECOND PART OF YOUR TEST!!!!!!

DON"T PUSH THE REVERSE BUTTON WHILE YOU HAVE A TEMP GROUND!!!!

You will hear a very bad "grind", not just a little "tick" because the engine will "reverse" just as the gears hit. (In a car or other setup at least the cogs are spinning the same direction, they won't be in this case. . .)

You follow the way it works though! (At least for the 2012) Sending you a PM also in hopes to catch you to save your ring gear. . .
 

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BTW I'm not "yelling" above, just a hope you don't hit the reverse button wile you have your temp ground connected! (CAPs were all I could think to do, if I had your phone number I would have called you at 1AM!!!)
 

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Your ground wire off the solenoid to sled frame is bad, broken, corroded, loose, ect. Take a wire to the ground on the solenoid and connect it to the negative post of your battery or good, clean, bare metal spot on the frame. Sled should start if all connections you make are good.

Oops, misread other posts, this was already mentioned. If the solenoid is wired how I imagine, this will be your issue.
 

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That wire should never be "positive". (Or perhaps better explained as a "source". (That part or the wire path will have voltage, current flow but should be only when start/reverse button is pushed and only when engine is not already running.) (Glad you saw this before your test!)

Remember folks, this same button is used for reverse so if OP runs a "new wire" to ground the engine will start but as soon as the button is pushed while the engine is running the "new wire" will always provide a "ground" and the starter drive is going to smash into the ring gear just as the engine spins in reverse. . . (The ECM prevents ground after engine is started so then the button becomes reverse not start. . .)

So, sounds like you had a charging issue that caused you to do work on your voltage reg and then the start issue happened?

The 2012 has a relay that does not let the system "charge" the battery until after the engine is running. (I found this out as I had a dead battery a few years back while riding like you described in another post) In a 2012 it is a small black relay in front of the air box held up by a zip tie)

We really need to be looking at the circuit/wire layout for your sled as I'm only guessing from 2012 back to 2008, you have that from the other post?
 

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So your saying that for start the little wires, top is pos bottom so ground. This allows for start.
Once started, both wires turn to positive so no circuit to start? This is what I see presently with sled off.
Yes I did put in a new regulator, did 1 ride and seemed fine, but 12.7v at battery with sled on or off. I have a new relay I will pop on air box side.
 

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Ok, so I grounded the low terminal on starter soilinoid to the battery, and plugged top positive small wire on top terminal, fired right up.
So, then so it wouldn't risk engaging starter when running, I put my volt meter pos rod in the positive top small wire, manually started sled, meter neg to frame,,, pushed for reverse and I got 12v at that wire,, which means I would have put the starter gear into clutch.... But sled still did execute reverse.
So nailed it down to,, this sled thinks it's running with 12v at both small wires, that's how it must work to prevent starter engaging when running and hitting reverse.
Anyone know what that could be? Not sure if that's a chaffed wire or ecm,, or ecm plug ?
 

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Read MFR’s post again. Also, we need a wiring diagram posted to give more accurate advice. This isn’t difficult, a member sent you a shop manual. Post it and we can get you up and running properly.
 

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Ok, so I grounded the low terminal on starter soilinoid to the battery, and plugged top positive small wire on top terminal, fired right up.
So, then so it wouldn't risk engaging starter when running, I put my volt meter pos rod in the positive top small wire, manually started sled, meter neg to frame,,, pushed for reverse and I got 12v at that wire,, which means I would have put the starter gear into clutch.... But sled still did execute reverse.
So nailed it down to,, this sled thinks it's running with 12v at both small wires, that's how it must work to prevent starter engaging when running and hitting reverse.
Anyone know what that could be? Not sure if that's a chaffed wire or ecm,, or ecm plug ?
Good call to disco the wire while running to avoid the starter issue. Reverse did not work as you had the wire off so 12 volts did not get to where it was needed. (No clue where that is but inside the ECM or device that "opens the ground" once the sled is running.)

Perhaps save your $$ and don't toss parts at it till you can look at the wire layout for your sled.

12.7 with sled off is good and shows it has been charged at some point but what do you have with sled running? (Should be higher)

I'm lost as to how / why you have voltage from both wires, the fact you do is telling you the side that "should be ground" with engine off is your start issue. Again if this start issue happened the same time you worked on the voltage reg I would double check that work. (Something crossed something touching what it should not be, wrong or defective part swapped)

In the other tread about your voltage reg, you said you had the shop manual, look at that to see which wire block to disco at the ECM, confirm no other wire connects with the wire from solenoid to ECM per design. (I don't think there would be but check) Then without the ECM you will not have the voltage on that wire. (Proves the voltage is from ECM incorrectly)

The other item I don't get is how in the world you have voltage on that wire only when you press for Rev? (Finding that will be part of the key to repair, you have something crossed somewhere but in a manner that has not melted a wire or popped a fuse yet. . . .

You will find it, just need to keep at it. (More in the thinking and testing perhaps then parts swap as that might add more issues and can get costly)
 

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On the plus side BUDDS might show right away that the ECM has issues.

Good luck! (Please let us know what they find)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It's fixed. Dealer ran thru the protocol tests, came to same wire I suspected. 2 small wires going to starter soilinoid, lower was a ground, I got battery voltage,,, they had it two full days cutting into harness, shaffed wire. Once fixed, wire became ground and charging issue was resolved.
So chaffed wire deep in harness.
 

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Thanks for reporting back!!!

If you don't mind sharing just for reference, how many hours of labor did they charge you? (Just to give folks an idea if they want to keep digging for days without a sled or bite the bullet and get it fixed, of course each shop has different rates policies and knowledge. . .)

Any clue where it rubbed and "why"? (Just looking to help others check before it happens to them too!!!)

Glad you are "back on the snow!!!!"
 
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