Ski-Doo Snowmobiles Forum banner
1 - 20 of 65 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Lets take a look at over the last decade of where trail specific sleds has taken us in the industry.

R-motion and progressive rate rear suspension has to be the biggest thing to happen, even though that was 10 years ago. Then we got an array of trail adjustability so you don't need to get under the sled. Torsion spring adjusters, carbide adjusters, Arctic Cats ATAK system. Some nice advancements in LED lighting have also come our way in some models. Seems more touring orientated type of stuff, but they also crossed it over for hardcore trail riders as a "must have" accessory.
More standard electric starting across the industry. Improvements to steering with new front end geometry. A couple of 4 strokes and 4 stroke Turbos. Throttle by wire from Ski Doo in limited capacity.
BIG push towards longer tracks. 120's are nearly obsolete and 129's aren't far behind. It looks like the 137 is now the industry standard whether or not you want one, as shorter tracks aren't even sold anymore. Big shift towards ice ripper style tracks.

Weights of trail sleds continue to increase in the trail segment, yet drop substantially in the mountain segment.

I also believe most models are becoming closer and closer to one another in regards to features. For example X and XRS. They almost all even look identical now.
Same goes for Cat/ Polaris with their different models. (ZR Limited and ZR RR. Indy Sp and Indy XC) Very watered down and obviously targeted towards easier/faster manufacturing. Less models, more unified across the board.

Is this what most trails riders REALLY want or is it just what most of us are being sold, "take it or leave it" style as the main focus has clearly become the off trail segment?

Did anyone here buy a longer track off trail or crossover sled mainly because you wanted the newer tech, better looks, etc... but probably would have chosen a similar trail sled if it was offered instead?
 

·
I might be dumb, but I’m not stupid!
Joined
·
1,296 Posts
I hope they don't discontinue 129"s, it is the perfect size for my riding. I would like to see some standard tech stuff like integrated gps with blue tooth to your phone for customization options. I think the possibilities could be endless.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
378 Posts
This November I went from an older 121" Polaris with old tech to a R Motion Ski Doo 600 Etec with a 137" track. I wanted better gas mileage, traction, suspension, and handling. Earlier this year I had ridden friends longer track newer sleds with advanced suspension systems. I liked the 120 MXZ X, 129 Blizzard, and 137 Renegade a lot. Would have been happy with anyone of them but decided to go to the 137 for better traction and ride. My first step up into the newer tech and I seriously have no regrets. Wouldn't think of looking back. Looking at a 600R renegade as the next step up. Mine only has 2,400 miles on it and will probably keep it for a while. It does everything I want and hangs with my friends sleds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,635 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I hope they don't discontinue 129"s, it is the perfect size for my riding. I would like to see some standard tech stuff like integrated gps with blue tooth to your phone for customization options. I think the possibilities could be endless.
Look for a lot of that tech soon from helmet manufacturers. Including GOOD communicators, heads up speed display, etc.. Makes perfect sense if your into that stuff. Great for long touring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,453 Posts
The 2019 600R and 2020 900 n/a Grand Touring Limited's are some amazing machines.

Heavy-ier, but with RA3/rMotion-air-ride and 2020 technology, they are incredible groomed trail sleds. They also do ok in the inevitable late day bumps.

I got to ride them both one-up in anything but smooth trails and while they are both a handful, even with no passenger, one the trail smooths out or gets better, the ride is incredible as is the wind protection.

So far, we are loving the machines but now need more snow in NH.

The technology for these machines is just nothing short of incredible. I could have never done what Ski Doo has done, for $13,000 or any amount really. Thank you technology and smarter people than me.

Oh yeah, having the FAR, is also incredible for these machines. The sled transforms from a position almost over the front skis, to stand up, then to sit back and ride that Harley Davidson/metric cruiser bike-on the snow covered trail, just with the Forward Adjustable Riser or whatever it is called.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
A lot of trail riders like the old style seats where they aren't standing up, more than anything else. We had our friends/neighbors up from FL and they all wanted to ride the circa 2002 2-ups and not the latest. On the other hand, those sleds can't keep up with the lead group with newer sleds when its bumpy on a Saturday night, but they all made it eventually.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,254 Posts
Is this what most trails riders REALLY want or is it just what most of us are being sold, "take it or leave it" style as the main focus has clearly become the off trail segment?

Did anyone here buy a longer track off trail or crossover sled mainly because you wanted the newer tech, better looks, etc... but probably would have chosen a similar trail sled if it was offered instead?
Personally, I like any feature that makes trail riding more comfortable.

I bought the longer track (137) so that I am less likely to get stuck with the 900 ACE.

MinnDave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,526 Posts
My first sleds were 121's, then I bought a 137 when they weren't even that popular... I hated it. After 2 years I dumped the 137 and went back to a 121.

The 121's were fabulous trail machines and I rode hard, very hard. The 137 just didn't cut it.

So, as I ponder which sled to pre-check I have this evil little guy in the back of my head saying "do not go long, go for the 129"

But my heart is set on a renegade or backcountry.

My mind says MX-ZRS.

I think the the whole idea of the 137 being better on the rough trails is all BS myself. A myth.

Does the 137 do better off trail? Yes and no. Great riding skills make more of a difference than a longer track in my opinion.

The 137's look cooler and are the way of the future, there is no denying that.

That is why I'm going long. It's all about, fun factor, cool factor, and resale value. A 129 is going to get less in the very near future. Nobody will want them.

That's why I'm going with a 137 or more.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,377 Posts
keep the price the same, power the same, looks similar, but drop 100 lbs through the use of carbon fiber if possible? shot starter setup without a doubt or similar not 20 lb starter setup..........
 

·
Xrs_800
Joined
·
888 Posts
The trail segment seems to be stagnant lately. The r motion is an excellent skid and always will be great but we need some improvements. Your right about the x and xrs models looking alike. Im also disappointed how soft the newer xrs sleds ride. What happened to the X-RS consumer race sled? It seems people complained about how rough they were. There has to be people who still love the old xrs sleds. No estart stripped down to bare bones and rode like bricks at low speeds. I seriously wish doo would come out with a non fancy xrs. I could careless about e start and a fancy set of gauges. 2012 to 2017 gauges were just fine with me. Heck I hardly look at them anymore. Take a look back at the 12 xrs. Only 2 buttons on the handle bars. Rer and headlights switch. The hand/thumb warmers were on the console. No creature comforts really. Also if doo came out with shot on a trail sled I'd buy it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,208 Posts
Put a few more miles on my brand new 900T XRS today. Based on this example alone I am nothing less than completely ecstatic of where we are at with modern trail sleds today. Turbo 4 stroke that runs with any two stroke out there from a performance perspective with already proven bullet proof reliability. So well balanced that it feels lightweight and is incredibly fun to ride. No oil, no stink, just smooth effortless power that can be dialed up whenever I get the itch with a simple and inexpensive tune. LED lights? Check, added those for a hundred bucks and they are excellent. Linq system, still the best in the business and the new small bag is a better design than the last one I had on my 16' 1200.

When I picked up my 16' 1200 I thought BRP knocked it out of the park for trail riders that wanted reliability with a dose of performance but always thought it should have had more in stock form. 900T is a sled I thought us trail riders would never see. Can they make this sled better? I am sure they can but while I wait for whatever BRP brings next this thing is an absolute blast on the trails.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,339 Posts
Do you like the current direction of engineering in trail sleds?

No! Some things I like about the G4 chassis but others are a compromise for Trail riding. It was a chassis designed for off trail, I like the narrow seat and being able to move around but you have too. I takes a lot of work to make the G4 corner in the tight trails as well as an xs or even a rev. They have essentially pushed rider forward to far forward, this why they need 105 lb springs on the front of a G4 850 vs 90lb springs on an 800 XS, Chassis is better balanced and the same weight, needs heavier springs to carry your body weight. Same rear suspension I can ride with my 230lbs on stock rear torsions on 2, Xs Rmotion I had to be on 4 or 5 or better yet go with a heavier spring. Now lower the front, and firm it up and you can get it to handle but the bigger you are the more active you need to be because of how much effect your weight has on the front. Bottom line is trail riding segment is an after thought, everything is geared now for mountain riding or midwest boondocking trail closers. Bottom line is for spirited trail riding if you gave 10 guys a 2007 Rev X, a 2012 XP X,2016 XS X and a 2020 G4 X and all you could do was adjust stock suspension components and ride a mix of high speed and tight twisty trails, most guys would be fastest on the 2007 Rev, the most comfortable all day on the 2016 Xs. If anyone disagrees, go ride a Polaris xc 850, the riding position is perfect for aggressive riding and comfort, like a combo between the best of the original Rev and the Xs. We like the G4 because of the new powertrain options. Look at the snocross and cross country guys they all have footwells back farther that you can lock into.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,340 Posts
Talking industry wide? I'd say all sleds today are AMAZING compared to 10 years ago and that's quite a feat. However I have almost no interest in any 2020 Cat or Yamaha trail sled. Too long, too heavy. Chassis feels old. I like what Polaris is doing with their light weight trail sleds, and the shorty Doo's are obviously nice as well. I can complain about little things but in the end the sleds get the job done.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,686 Posts
My only thing with current day sleds is that they're to front heavy. I have yet to hammer through moguls like i used on 120" xs chassis, that thing was sweet, i call ride on the track feel, it never did anything weird hammering through moguls, these newer more front end biased sled tend to fishtail alot and i don't like that
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,378 Posts
I don't like the trend towards longer tracks and the extinction of the 120's.... and likely the 129's in the not too distant future. There is absolutely nothing wrong with shorter and lighter sleds.

I do like the 4-stroke technology and won't ever go back to a 2-stroke.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,049 Posts
I don't like the trend towards longer tracks and the extinction of the 120's.... and likely the 129's in the not too distant future. There is absolutely nothing wrong with shorter and lighter sleds.

I do like the 4-stroke technology and won't ever go back to a 2-stroke.
My first sleds were 121's, then I bought a 137 when they weren't even that popular... I hated it. After 2 years I dumped the 137 and went back to a 121.

The 121's were fabulous trail machines and I rode hard, very hard. The 137 just didn't cut it.

So, as I ponder which sled to pre-check I have this evil little guy in the back of my head saying "do not go long, go for the 129"

But my heart is set on a renegade or backcountry.

My mind says MX-ZRS.

I think the the whole idea of the 137 being better on the rough trails is all BS myself. A myth.

Does the 137 do better off trail? Yes and no. Great riding skills make more of a difference than a longer track in my opinion.
I think the long tracks are a hype myself and I own 2 137's. I really wish they were 120 or 129's but thats what i ended up with.

4 strokes are great for the trail.

I also have to agree on the extreme far forward riding position. Its sure is nice sometimes though.

The old mtn. sleds w/136/144 tracks worked well because the rider was over the track more imho.

One thing is for sure, us trail riders can expect one thing, nothing but trickle down from the bling bling long track sleds.

The two most recent advertised "trail" doo's i can remember is the '19 blizzard and the enduros. Both have good traits but mis the mark on some things, again in my opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
657 Posts
i also will never go back to a two stroke. or a 129. the fuel milage i get on my 1200 is crazy good. and it does eat up smaller moguls .... plus i have the 2 gallon spare tank on back. w the 137 track there is even more room for my compartment behind the tank. only down side is im getting older and now my sled is heavier. lol. i need the exercise anyways.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,526 Posts
I think the evolution of the "trail" sled is amazing. Look at 10 year intervals starting in 1980.

Now all I read about are complaints that are nothing more than modest updates or upgrades.

We "trail" riders are neglected and getting hand me downs. I call BS on this.

Follow the progression and you will see just how amazing trail sleds are. You will see all the technology and all the advancements. It's a wonderful thing.

I think the 2020 MX-Z XRS and 2020 Renegade XRS are the greatest and most beautiful sleds ever made.

But you know what, any good rider on a 2000 MX-Z 500 can easily keep up in a windy, twisty trail. Trust me, I know. I experience it. Even though we have the latest, greatest, prettiest, and most technologically advanced sleds ever, they are no better in many ways than the old sleds of the past.

Enjoy what we have....it's pretty awesome. Amazing actually. You don't need everything on your dream list to have a fantastic time on the trail.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,437 Posts
About 5-6 years ago, there was a thread about the 137" not being needed because the 129" could do everything a 137" could. 137" owners could just go to a 146". This thread was full of 121" owners refusing to change with the future! If you want a 120/121 sled, they are a dime a dozen used.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
6,378 Posts
About 5-6 years ago, there was a thread about the 137" not being needed because the 129" could do everything a 137" could. 137" owners could just go to a 146". This thread was full of 121" owners refusing to change with the future! If you want a 120/121 sled, they are a dime a dozen used.
It's not just about the length...... it's also about the weight...... the right weight / length = agility.

A 2015 TNT 900 weighed 485lbs....... a 2015 Andrenaline weighed 503lbs. Factor in the 120 vs 137 track with the weight difference and the shorter and lighter sled is more agile on the tight and twisty trails.
 
1 - 20 of 65 Posts
Top