Ski-Doo Snowmobiles Forum banner
301 - 320 of 350 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
535 Posts
The latest edition of SnowTech has a good article on the Polaris Prostar S4. Favourable write-up.

One very interesting line that pertains to Cat - they claim they've heard unconfirmed reports of Yamaha 4-strokes being installed into prototype Polaris sleds.

That possibility has definitely been mentioned on dooTalk before but that's the first time I've seen it in print.
Weird Yamaha can get 80HP from a 500cc Engine (Phazer) and 150HP from a 1000cc Engine (Apex) but no one else can without turbos or Superchargers.

Ive owned both a Phazer and Apex in the past….The Phazer engine was pretty impressive corner-corner (I could keep up with the 800’s on the trail), but the handling was not very good.

Yamaha engine in a VR1…..hmmmmmm
 

·
On Thin Ice with Steve
Joined
·
40,264 Posts
I was talking to someone at Haydays who has been working (product development)at Cat for the last 7 years and he said we finally have an influx of money to build what we need. Time will tell how true those words are.
At least they didn’t blow the whole budget on a snowmobile only visual aid for the biggest sled event in the country.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,498 Posts
Weird Yamaha cab get 80HP from a 500cc Engine (Phazer) and 150HP from a 1000cc Engine (Apex) but no one else can without turbos or Superchargers.
The Yamaha's spin a lot more rpm though and they need a gear reducer. Something like 12,000 RPM max on that Phazer.

The Yamaha 4-strokes are sweet but in my experience they come with a lot of "but's" that probably come from the inherent weight of the 4-stroke engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,260 Posts
I see what you mean, there is other 2-stroke DI technology out there.

But where is it? In a dusty old box in a storage room.

Typically if companies have leading technology that works, with patents in place, they work hard to maximize their protected time to make the most of it and get as far ahead as they can before patents expire.

Exactly like 'doo has done with DI in snowmobiles.

If the Yamaha DI technology was so great, they'd be using it. I haven't seen an HDPI Yamaha outboard in years.
The market is too small thats one of the reason....shrinkin market...+ yamaha went all in 4 stroke...thats one of the reason you dont see hpdi....Theres some corporate will , like honda to be 4 stroke only ...
 

·
Registered
2020 Enduro 900NA, 2022 Enduro 900NA, 2016 Adrenaline 800
Joined
·
689 Posts
^^ No, the overall market hasn't been shrinking for the last 5 years or so. Very stable this last decade as others have mentioned as well.

BRP seems to be able to thrive. Polaris seems to be progressing as well, driving forward.

Cat and Yamaha however, yes, shrinking market due to lack of competitiveness in many snowmobile sectors.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,126 Posts
Mark Lester's take (Supertrax)......................do you agree with it?

THOUGHTS ON ARCTIC CAT'S NEW CATALYST PLATFORM - Supertrax Online
Cat definitely has people talking about them. I don’t know that this sled is a game changer, but for them and the faithful, it’s something new. I don’t know that it’s anymore different then a g4 to a g5 concept where outside looking in, it just looks like skinnier panels in the end to me. A bit surprised how delayed the purchase plan is though, whereas like Doo and Poo seem to drop the latest and greatest late in the season for next season availability. So a bit of a head scratcher there especially with it being a 600 that they currently have. In the end, at least there is some sign of a fight left to them which is good, unlike Yamaha that’s just disappearing. I never expected the day to come where 4 manufacturers would be down to 2 or 3. I’m curious how those of you felt in the early years when you had so many brands to pick from and then as they started closing the doors on them to the 4 we see now, was that a similar feeling or just another day?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,260 Posts
^^ No, the overall market hasn't been shrinking for the last 5 years or so. Very stable this last decade as others have mentioned as well.

BRP seems to be able to thrive. Polaris seems to be progressing as well, driving forward.

Cat and Yamaha however, yes, shrinking market due to lack of competitiveness in many snowmobile sectors.
Wanna bet the shrinking market is about to resume ??

You must realize at some point all Doo had was SKI DOO..... Yamaha couldnt careless about such a marginal market....let that sink in....If you think brp is huge well Yammie is twelve time that big...
 

·
Registered
2022 MXZ XRS 600R
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
^^ No, the overall market hasn't been shrinking for the last 5 years or so. Very stable this last decade as others have mentioned as well.

BRP seems to be able to thrive. Polaris seems to be progressing as well, driving forward.

Cat and Yamaha however, yes, shrinking market due to lack of competitiveness in many snowmobile sectors.
There is a difference between a well run and established market player, like Polaris and BRP, continuing a trend of solid performance and small steps in market growth. This doesn't take much new investment. It's just the wheels of the machine turning.

Cat is in a very different spot. It's going to take major investment and growth in developing new products AND investments in operations to get back to where they were and be on par with BRP and Polaris. That isn't going to happen in a shrinking market.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Gin la pine

·
Registered
Joined
·
291 Posts
There is a difference between a well run and established market player, like Polaris and BRP, continuing a trend of solid performance and small steps in market growth. This doesn't take much new investment. It's just the wheels of the machine turning.

Cat is in a very different spot. It's going to take major investment and growth in developing new products AND investments in operations to get back to where they were and be on par with BRP and Polaris. That isn't going to happen in a shrinking market.
Only reason they (Cat) are behind the 8-ball is former CEO Claude Jordan’s actions, remove him from the picture and keep pretty much ANY former CEO and they’re not in the position they are.
Plain and simple
 

·
Registered
2022 MXZ XRS 600R
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
Only reason they (Cat) are behind the 8-ball is former CEO Claude Jordan’s actions, remove him from the picture and keep pretty much ANY former CEO and they’re not in the position they are.
Plain and simple
Agreed… but they are where they are unfortunately.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
31,976 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Cat definitely has people talking about them. I don’t know that this sled is a game changer, but for them and the faithful, it’s something new. I don’t know that it’s anymore different then a g4 to a g5 concept where outside looking in, it just looks like skinnier panels in the end to me. A bit surprised how delayed the purchase plan is though, whereas like Doo and Poo seem to drop the latest and greatest late in the season for next season availability. So a bit of a head scratcher there especially with it being a 600 that they currently have. In the end, at least there is some sign of a fight left to them which is good, unlike Yamaha that’s just disappearing. I never expected the day to come where 4 manufacturers would be down to 2 or 3. I’m curious how those of you felt in the early years when you had so many brands to pick from and then as they started closing the doors on them to the 4 we see now, was that a similar feeling or just another day?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It is not the same 600.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
18,702 Posts
Thats a whole bunch words that say absolutely nothing - kind of like the entire reveal.
That article was just Marks thoughts about cat in general. There’s articles on supertrax website specifically about the sled itself. Although, I’ll admit vague details in them, but I think it’s because it’s a very early unveil and they want to keep details quiet until it gets closer to actual release to the public.
 

·
Registered
2022 MXZ XRS 600R
Joined
·
1,228 Posts
New 600, new chassis, new front suspension.
Nothing?
I think he was suggesting the article was pointless and basically a regurgitation of what was already shared.
 
301 - 320 of 350 Posts
Top