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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, here's my prob. '04 800 X. The first engine went at the 2000 mile mark on Feb 14, 2004. After a back order wait, I got an entire new engine from ski-doo installed at my dealer and was back on the trail the first weekend in March that year. The engine went due to a ring failure.
Engine number two went on Feb 10 of this year. 3500 miles. Rod bearing went on the pto side. Took out everything, case, head, ect.
Ski-Doo will NOT cover this engine even though it's not two years old, techinally, and that my mech at my dealer said he hasn't seen a rod bearing go.

Yes, I ride hard, but I take care of my sled, and her maintance is keep up.

Does this sound like the life span of this years engine??

Anyone heard of rod bearings goning?

And just for giggles, what would you guys do? Complian to Skippy more, rebiuld it stock, get as new short block and after market head and such?

Any input and/or help would be great.
 

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Bully_X said:
Ok, here's my prob. '04 800 X. The first engine went at the 2000 mile mark on Feb 14, 2004. After a back order wait, I got an entire new engine from ski-doo installed at my dealer and was back on the trail the first weekend in March that year. The engine went due to a ring failure.
Engine number two went on Feb 10 of this year. 3500 miles. Rod bearing went on the pto side. Took out everything, case, head, ect.
Ski-Doo will NOT cover this engine even though it's not two years old, techinally, and that my mech at my dealer said he hasn't seen a rod bearing go.

Yes, I ride hard, but I take care of my sled, and her maintance is keep up.

Does this sound like the life span of this years engine??

Anyone heard of rod bearings goning?

And just for giggles, what would you guys do? Complian to Skippy more, rebiuld it stock, get as new short block and after market head and such?

Any input and/or help would be great.
[snapback]723926[/snapback]​
Bully...

These rod bearing failures are not the result of poor engine design. In fact, the DOO crank train is one of the most solid built bottom ends out there...
Rod bearing failure is directly related to oil (lack of it) Yes, you can have detonation (very slight) that will eventuallu hammer out the bearings and that could be a contributor to the problem but I think it is a combination of both (very mild detonation due to a very poor head design and lack of oil sue to improper oil pump settings and stupid injection routing)

SOLUTION:

Head causing mild detonation: SIMPLE.. get a better combustion chamber design head... I can think of one inparticular that works extremely well


Lack of oil: Here is a biggy....This is a big problem but is very easily remedied..
TURN UP YOU OIL PUMP SETTING TO MAX!!! AND (YES, AND.. meaning in addition to) add about 1 pint of oil to you gas EVERY time you fill up...

IF you do these things your bottom end will not fail for a long time...

This idea that running less oil gives power is totally false!! This idea that you are fouling plugs because you are running too much oil is crazy.. Oil fouling plugs is very hard to do unless you sit there and let your sled idle for 15 minutes all the time... THEN.. you MAY foul a plug or two.. NEVER let you engine sit there and idle for prolonged periods.. sure.. get it warmed up beofre stabbing the throttle but it is hard to get an engine up to "Stabbing temps" via prolonged idling... Prolonged idling does not heat the pipe quickly nor does it heat the cylinders properly.. SOLUTION.. idle for about 2 minutes or so,, then get on it and part throttle around for 2 or 3 minutes and then you are ready to STAB It!!

Bottom line: DOO cranks are rock solid.. BUT will fail (like very other crank) when subjected to slight detonation (change head) or sparse oil feeding (give it some oil)

For the record.. I run 32:1 at the pump and 125:1 in the tank and have NEVER fouled a plug

Hope this helps

Kelsey
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks.

I always add oil to the gas before I head out. Just to be safe. I usually allow a good warm up, but not so the plugs get so bad I got probs. Sounds like we are on the same page for that stuff.

Funny you should point out the oil.. I just had the oil res replaced about 200 miles ago. I asked the mech if that looked like the culprit. He said no and showed me the oil lines were full. I still question this. Pretty close in timing. But they wont say they did anything wrong.

Would you do a new skippy short block and aftermarket head then??

Nor gonna ask the dreaded "what oil" question. I ran Legend ZXR2. Not goi9ng back to that. Gonna stay BRP stuff from now on.

Just gets me
when I think about how the ski-doo rep actually laughed at the idea of them standing behind there engine. Said they were clear due to warrnty timing. Rode very little this year and the engine gave no hints that something was going wrong. Was running good and then WHAM! Towed back by a CAT! that alone was aweful!!


Any ideas on how to procede?

Thanks all!
 

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I agree with Kelsey 100 percent, 2 strokes need oil, and the fuel curve is calibrated too lean from the factory to meet EPA standards , it is a fact.
 

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If your engine is mostly stock i would try some 600HO needles 2004, go up to 420 main jets, 20 pilots, set oil pump cable at 5/8 inch, if it is lazy on the back shift try a 04 summit purple spring. I would go for a short block, a freind of mind is running one and it runs good. Good luck with your new motor.
 

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I also agree with the oil issue. Oil provides several vital functions. I believe these functions are compromised at very lean ratios. The oil is not only lubricating, but also cleaning, cooling and sealing the engine. I think the 45/1 ratio advocated by brp is for sales pitch and epa compliance. I currently ride 3-4000 miles a year and have owned twenty some sleds and I have never had a crank bearing failure. My current sled runs the leanest of all at between 30-35/1.

My other concern is how much belt dust has been ingested by your engine. I think that belt dust could be very detrimental to the rings, and rod and wrist pin bearings.

Do you see much belt dust around the air box?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
A little dust around the air intake area. Not a alot. I will check the carbs to see if any res biuld up is apparent. Thanks for the input.
 

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RK Tek said:
Bully_X said:
Ok, here's my prob. '04 800 X. The first engine went at the 2000 mile mark on Feb 14, 2004. After a back order wait, I got an entire new engine from ski-doo installed at my dealer and was back on the trail the first weekend in March that year. The engine went due to a ring failure.
Engine number two went on Feb 10 of this year. 3500 miles. Rod bearing went on the pto side. Took out everything, case, head, ect.
Ski-Doo will NOT cover this engine even though it's not two years old, techinally, and that my mech at my dealer said he hasn't seen a rod bearing go.

Yes, I ride hard, but I take care of my sled, and her maintance is keep up.

Does this sound like the life span of this years engine??

Anyone heard of rod bearings goning?

And just for giggles, what would you guys do? Complian to Skippy more, rebiuld it stock, get as new short block and after market head and such?

Any input and/or help would be great.
[snapback]723926[/snapback]​
Bully...

These rod bearing failures are not the result of poor engine design. In fact, the DOO crank train is one of the most solid built bottom ends out there...
Rod bearing failure is directly related to oil (lack of it) Yes, you can have detonation (very slight) that will eventuallu hammer out the bearings and that could be a contributor to the problem but I think it is a combination of both (very mild detonation due to a very poor head design and lack of oil sue to improper oil pump settings and stupid injection routing)

SOLUTION:

Head causing mild detonation: SIMPLE.. get a better combustion chamber design head... I can think of one inparticular that works extremely well


Lack of oil: Here is a biggy....This is a big problem but is very easily remedied..
TURN UP YOU OIL PUMP SETTING TO MAX!!! AND (YES, AND.. meaning in addition to) add about 1 pint of oil to you gas EVERY time you fill up...

IF you do these things your bottom end will not fail for a long time...

This idea that running less oil gives power is totally false!! This idea that you are fouling plugs because you are running too much oil is crazy.. Oil fouling plugs is very hard to do unless you sit there and let your sled idle for 15 minutes all the time... THEN.. you MAY foul a plug or two.. NEVER let you engine sit there and idle for prolonged periods.. sure.. get it warmed up beofre stabbing the throttle but it is hard to get an engine up to "Stabbing temps" via prolonged idling... Prolonged idling does not heat the pipe quickly nor does it heat the cylinders properly.. SOLUTION.. idle for about 2 minutes or so,, then get on it and part throttle around for 2 or 3 minutes and then you are ready to STAB It!!

Bottom line: DOO cranks are rock solid.. BUT will fail (like very other crank) when subjected to slight detonation (change head) or sparse oil feeding (give it some oil)

For the record.. I run 32:1 at the pump and 125:1 in the tank and have NEVER fouled a plug

Hope this helps

Kelsey
[snapback]723953[/snapback]​
do you cart a sled full of oil with you on trips ?
 
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