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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok guys I just picked up a 600 etec xrs

I'm 200 LBS I ride mid and lower michgan trails and some powder

What clutch kit should I buy? And from who?

I also saw something about a plastic clutch adjuster I should replace?

I'm probably gonna add reeds and spi pipe also

If you guys can think of anything else that will help performance let me know maybe studs down the center?

Thanks dootalk
 

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Even better - do it yourself using Skidoo parts.... This has been discussed so many times before I went and pulled one of my old posts... it has some additional performance info for a 600Etec.

The search function works.... this has been discussed many times in the past. Since you can't add fuel with the 600Etec (there are no external boxes that work) you are somewhat limited in what you can do. But fortunately the 600 Etec runs a bit rich at the problem areas so you can take two different approaches. 1. You can use and SPI pipe and silencer, V-Force 3 reeds and a Bondi Airbox. Which makes a significant change. Obviously you want to clutch and gear it too.

It comes stock with a straight 48 degree helix and either a straight 44 or a 43/47 helix (both stock doo helixes that you can usually find used for about $50) work well in the sled. The primary spring is a 130/290 lb spring and gives you 3400 rpm engagement. A 160/290 spring will raise engagement speed to a more fun 3800 or a 200/290 spring raises it to about 4200/4300 and the sled will launch harder. It already has the green 180/303 lb secondary spring which seems to work well for midwest riding. These springs can be purchased from skidoo for about $28.

If you would rather rework the cylinders instead of adding a pipe and airbox, you can have Trygstad port them; this is probably slightly cheaper then the external components and will yield about the same horsepower. You can't combine the external mods with the internal porting as there is not enough extra fuel available.

Either approach works.. and you will leave your stock buds in the dust. Even if you are stock, you will want to make the clutching changes as stock performance is poor.. while very smooth and

Sorry Brett, you posted before I could. I will post the part numbers you need for helix and springs when I find the correct post in history.. I don't want to type them from scratch again..

Ok will add on some more old posts... all of the right part numbers are in the bottom paragraph.

I will patch several old posts together here.

With a 600 Etec, the first 5 things:

Start with the stock clutching - it sucks unless you are into low speed cruising and fuel economy.

1. Doodoctor QRS treatment - three reasons - correct belt alignment means more horse power to the track; easier to put V-Force 3 reeds in and easier then to remove the helix and or work on/clean the clutch more often.

2. Put 43/47 doo summit helix in the sled and a 160/290 or 200/290 primary spring to wake up the clutching for a performance sledder. I hate to say it but the stock 600Etec clutching (low engagement speed (3400) and too steep of helix to pull makes the sled doggy in good air near sea level). The ramps and primary spring finish force are fine as is the secondary spring. If you don't change the helix - which is a bad move, you want to put a purple secondary spring in to keep the sled in low gear longer. did I say the stock helix and initial primary spring force suck???

3. 1 3/4 lug challenger lite track for those of us that are off trail riders or 1 3/8 cobra for the trail riders.

4. V-Force reeds - stock Etec has the old doo V type reed block (not the 800 W block); they help.

5. SPI single pipe with stock silencer - It works and with stock silencer is quiet.

6. Bondi Airbox

Bro J, on May 13 2010, 11:36 PM, said:

you're right. stock clutching sucks. primary spring too soft and helix too steep. stock is a 48. but why the reverse summit helix? seems to me like you'd want the angles the other way around. explain please!

From A recent Snow Mag as you probably wouldn't believe me ha ha....

"the low end engine torque was not great enough to pull the load, so a "reverse angle helix" like a 43-47 can be used with a purple secondary spring. We also increased the engagement rpm to have more power available"

Big John is the one who put me on to it. Prior to this I was running a straight 44 degree in place of the stock 48 degree and it made a big difference. The 43/47 which is stock helix in modern ss500 (600) summit.

The stock sled is set up for smoothness and fuel economy!

I am recopying this response from another thread. But it will give you most of the part numbers of what you need to do for a good performance clutch set up. Not trying to step on any of the kit manufactures toes, you get good value buying one of their kits. They do a lot of testing and development when designing and planning their kits and need to be paid for that work. But you can mix and match some pieces and tune your sled for the starting engagement speed that you want. You will need an adjustable pin kit and a few cheap springs you can buy right from doo, and a doo helix that you can usually find on ebay or dootalk. And you can the kind of performance you thought you were going to get when you bought the sled.

I copied this from an old thread on the 600 Etec that I wrote. When we first did my sled with some consulting with DooDoctor (he did his QRS treatment to the secondary so it is easier to clutch) and Big John resulted in the 44 degree helix. Subsequent testing by BJ indicated that the 43/47 doo helix worked even better. Today he likes and recommends the shockwave helix. They are all making it easier to initially move the sled. Use Iceman's analogy; it is a good one.

The stock clutching sucks from the stand point of engagement and being able to pull the stock 48 degree helix. My own feeling with the stock 600 Etec sled was that it was a bit of a dog. I typically ride/rode a ported 700 RKT headed Rev for comparison.

Stock, they have a blue/blue 130 lb/290 lb primary spring in the sled. The 130 lbs controls the clutch engagement along with the ramp height to about 3400 rpm's (which is low for sled for good fuel economy and engine durability). A purple/blue 160 lb/290lb ( 415034900) will raise it to about 3800 rpm enagement. And a green/blue 200lb/290 (414768200 ) will raise the engagement to about 4200 give or take a 100 rpm's. Use which ever works for you. The sled won't be near as sluggish leaving. If you have slightly heavier adjustable pins (a good idea) you can even use a 230-320 lbs Pink/Purple part number 414754200 for about 4500/4600 rpm starts, but here you have to have really good traction.

And you need to change that 48 degree helix to a lesser angle (44 degrees works pretty good with the stock green secondary spring - subsequent testing and recommendation would be to use the 43/47). These two things make a big difference in the performance of the sled. It will be much more responsive. Doo was targeting super fuel mileage with decent performance thus the low engagement speed. Probably impacts warranty a little bit and it makes for a smoother sled.

I left off the secondary clutch spring when I wrote this initially. Do principally has three secondary springs for the QRS secondary similar to the ones for the HPV on the rev.
The stock 600 Etec spring is the green spring at 180 303 lbs which to me is pretty good for the flat lands and holds it in low gear just long enough. Many prefer the purple 231 303 lb spring which will hold it in low gear even longer (I will often use this spring for deep powder out west).
157-303 BK 417127039
180-303 GRN 417127137
231-303 PUR 417127062

You should use an adjustable pin kit to set maximum engine speed - more pin weight lowers max engine speed, less pin weight raises max engine speed. You probably want to optimize it on a nominal air day to the optimum engine speed for the 600 Etec porting on clicker 3. Thus you have room too tune - for a bad air day (click up to 4 or five) or a good air day click down to 2 or 1 during normal riding. Can also compensate for snow conditions with clutch clickers if you set up for normal running on clicker 3. By the same token, their are also a lot of exception rules....depending on what you are doing on a given day. The stock pins are pretty close to right in the midwest with a stock sled, might be 1/2 to a gram light at 16.7 grams.

By the end of the season, I had the SPI pipe and the Bondi airbox on the sled in addition to the above clutching plus adjustable pins (heavier) to handle the additional power as well a 23 then a 24 tooth gear and I was almost totally happy with the sled. Now if someone comes up with an add on box so fuel can be controlled - another 8 horse power from porting and I will be a happy camper. Currently the sled lifts it skis at will and runs decently.

Or as Pit Grunt suggests, you can buy a Howard's, Cudney, Laflame; Goodwin's or Big John's set up for the sled. If you know the basics and with a little testing you can arrive at the same thing spending less money. You pay for their knowledge and testing when you buy a kit. That can be a good thing. I believe Billy Howards stage 1 600 Etec shorty kit contains a primary and a secondary spring as well as an adjustable pin kit and it works well.

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Even better - do it yourself using Skidoo parts.... This has been discussed so many times before I went and pulled one of my old posts... it has some additional performance info for a 600Etec.

The search function works.... this has been discussed many times in the past. Since you can't add fuel with the 600Etec (there are no external boxes that work) you are somewhat limited in what you can do. But fortunately the 600 Etec runs a bit rich at the problem areas so you can take two different approaches. 1. You can use and SPI pipe and silencer, V-Force 3 reeds and a Bondi Airbox. Which makes a significant change. Obviously you want to clutch and gear it too.

It comes stock with a straight 48 degree helix and either a straight 44 or a 43/47 helix (both stock doo helixes that you can usually find used for about $50) work well in the sled. The primary spring is a 130/290 lb spring and gives you 3400 rpm engagement. A 160/290 spring will raise engagement speed to a more fun 3800 or a 200/290 spring raises it to about 4200/4300 and the sled will launch harder. It already has the green 180/303 lb secondary spring which seems to work well for midwest riding. These springs can be purchased from skidoo for about $28.

If you would rather rework the cylinders instead of adding a pipe and airbox, you can have Trygstad port them; this is probably slightly cheaper then the external components and will yield about the same horsepower. You can't combine the external mods with the internal porting as there is not enough extra fuel available.

Either approach works.. and you will leave your stock buds in the dust. Even if you are stock, you will want to make the clutching changes as stock performance is poor.. while very smooth and

Sorry Brett, you posted before I could. I will post the part numbers you need for helix and springs when I find the correct post in history.. I don't want to type them from scratch again..

Ok will add on some more old posts... all of the right part numbers are in the bottom paragraph.

I will patch several old posts together here.

With a 600 Etec, the first 5 things:

Start with the stock clutching - it sucks unless you are into low speed cruising and fuel economy.

1. Doodoctor QRS treatment - three reasons - correct belt alignment means more horse power to the track; easier to put V-Force 3 reeds in and easier then to remove the helix and or work on/clean the clutch more often.

2. Put 43/47 doo summit helix in the sled and a 160/290 or 200/290 primary spring to wake up the clutching for a performance sledder. I hate to say it but the stock 600Etec clutching (low engagement speed (3400) and too steep of helix to pull makes the sled doggy in good air near sea level). The ramps and primary spring finish force are fine as is the secondary spring. If you don't change the helix - which is a bad move, you want to put a purple secondary spring in to keep the sled in low gear longer. did I say the stock helix and initial primary spring force suck???

3. 1 3/4 lug challenger lite track for those of us that are off trail riders or 1 3/8 cobra for the trail riders.

4. V-Force reeds - stock Etec has the old doo V type reed block (not the 800 W block); they help.

5. SPI single pipe with stock silencer - It works and with stock silencer is quiet.

6. Bondi Airbox

Bro J, on May 13 2010, 11:36 PM, said:

you're right. stock clutching sucks. primary spring too soft and helix too steep. stock is a 48. but why the reverse summit helix? seems to me like you'd want the angles the other way around. explain please!

From A recent Snow Mag as you probably wouldn't believe me ha ha....

"the low end engine torque was not great enough to pull the load, so a "reverse angle helix" like a 43-47 can be used with a purple secondary spring. We also increased the engagement rpm to have more power available"

Big John is the one who put me on to it. Prior to this I was running a straight 44 degree in place of the stock 48 degree and it made a big difference. The 43/47 which is stock helix in modern ss500 (600) summit.

The stock sled is set up for smoothness and fuel economy!

I am recopying this response from another thread. But it will give you most of the part numbers of what you need to do for a good performance clutch set up. Not trying to step on any of the kit manufactures toes, you get good value buying one of their kits. They do a lot of testing and development when designing and planning their kits and need to be paid for that work. But you can mix and match some pieces and tune your sled for the starting engagement speed that you want. You will need an adjustable pin kit and a few cheap springs you can buy right from doo, and a doo helix that you can usually find on ebay or dootalk. And you can the kind of performance you thought you were going to get when you bought the sled.

I copied this from an old thread on the 600 Etec that I wrote. When we first did my sled with some consulting with DooDoctor (he did his QRS treatment to the secondary so it is easier to clutch) and Big John resulted in the 44 degree helix. Subsequent testing by BJ indicated that the 43/47 doo helix worked even better. Today he likes and recommends the shockwave helix. They are all making it easier to initially move the sled. Use Iceman's analogy; it is a good one.

The stock clutching sucks from the stand point of engagement and being able to pull the stock 48 degree helix. My own feeling with the stock 600 Etec sled was that it was a bit of a dog. I typically ride/rode a ported 700 RKT headed Rev for comparison.

Stock, they have a blue/blue 130 lb/290 lb primary spring in the sled. The 130 lbs controls the clutch engagement along with the ramp height to about 3400 rpm's (which is low for sled for good fuel economy and engine durability). A purple/blue 160 lb/290lb ( 415034900) will raise it to about 3800 rpm enagement. And a green/blue 200lb/290 (414768200 ) will raise the engagement to about 4200 give or take a 100 rpm's. Use which ever works for you. The sled won't be near as sluggish leaving. If you have slightly heavier adjustable pins (a good idea) you can even use a 230-320 lbs Pink/Purple part number 414754200 for about 4500/4600 rpm starts, but here you have to have really good traction.

And you need to change that 48 degree helix to a lesser angle (44 degrees works pretty good with the stock green secondary spring - subsequent testing and recommendation would be to use the 43/47). These two things make a big difference in the performance of the sled. It will be much more responsive. Doo was targeting super fuel mileage with decent performance thus the low engagement speed. Probably impacts warranty a little bit and it makes for a smoother sled.

I left off the secondary clutch spring when I wrote this initially. Do principally has three secondary springs for the QRS secondary similar to the ones for the HPV on the rev.
The stock 600 Etec spring is the green spring at 180 303 lbs which to me is pretty good for the flat lands and holds it in low gear just long enough. Many prefer the purple 231 303 lb spring which will hold it in low gear even longer (I will often use this spring for deep powder out west).
157-303 BK 417127039
180-303 GRN 417127137
231-303 PUR 417127062

You should use an adjustable pin kit to set maximum engine speed - more pin weight lowers max engine speed, less pin weight raises max engine speed. You probably want to optimize it on a nominal air day to the optimum engine speed for the 600 Etec porting on clicker 3. Thus you have room too tune - for a bad air day (click up to 4 or five) or a good air day click down to 2 or 1 during normal riding. Can also compensate for snow conditions with clutch clickers if you set up for normal running on clicker 3. By the same token, their are also a lot of exception rules....depending on what you are doing on a given day. The stock pins are pretty close to right in the midwest with a stock sled, might be 1/2 to a gram light at 16.7 grams.

By the end of the season, I had the SPI pipe and the Bondi airbox on the sled in addition to the above clutching plus adjustable pins (heavier) to handle the additional power as well a 23 then a 24 tooth gear and I was almost totally happy with the sled. Now if someone comes up with an add on box so fuel can be controlled - another 8 horse power from porting and I will be a happy camper. Currently the sled lifts it skis at will and runs decently.

Or as Pit Grunt suggests, you can buy a Howard's, Cudney, Laflame; Goodwin's or Big John's set up for the sled. If you know the basics and with a little testing you can arrive at the same thing spending less money. You pay for their knowledge and testing when you buy a kit. That can be a good thing. I believe Billy Howards stage 1 600 Etec shorty kit contains a primary and a secondary spring as well as an adjustable pin kit and it works well.

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Reply Ed
I took Don's advice and clutched it myself. I ended up with the 43/47 helix(bought it from a guy in the summit forum for $25 shipped), the green secondary spring, 200/290 primary spring, and 17.2 grams of pin weight. After installing everything I took it for a ride and it ripped! Couldn't thank djm enough, with playing with a few different springs and pin weight combos you can really personalize your sled. The SPI also showed alot of improvement compared to stock, I sure hope they make something like it for the 800 etec. Good luck
 

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Ok guys I just picked up a 600 etec xrs

I'm 200 LBS I ride mid and lower michgan trails and some powder

What clutch kit should I buy? And from who?

I also saw something about a plastic clutch adjuster I should replace?

I'm probably gonna add reeds and spi pipe also

If you guys can think of anything else that will help performance let me know maybe studs down the center?

Thanks dootalk
Here are the track dyno results for our 600 ETEC clutch kit. This is the TEAM TIED set-up for your sled. We have 3 full seasons of testing and the kit performs very well. Call Tim if you want more info, pricing on the kit, etc @ 518-260-6122. As with all of our clutch kits a 30-day money back warranty comes with purchase if the situation arises that you are not 100% satisfied. -T.E.S. RACING.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks guys.

What kind of horsepower numbers are those? 45
 

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Here are the track dyno results for our 600 ETEC clutch kit. This is the TEAM TIED set-up for your sled. We have 3 full seasons of testing and the kit performs very well. Call Tim if you want more info, pricing on the kit, etc @ 518-260-6122. As with all of our clutch kits a 30-day money back warranty comes with purchase if the situation arises that you are not 100% satisfied. -T.E.S. RACING.
The only issue with this is that most guys would have to buy the shaft, bearing tower and Team Tied Secondary to use this Kit. Not knowing what your kit costs, but the team tied clutch and shaft kit etc is in the neighbor hood of $100. The only guys who can afford to take advantage of your work are the guys with the 600RS's with the splined shafts or someone already running a DooDoctor's set up.

Do you have a kit for the stock clutch system withe the QRS? If so, what kind of numbers are you getting with that Kit, knowing that the QRS is almost as efficient as the Team Tied and more efficient than the older team and much more affordable to most of us?
 

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Thanks guys.

What kind of horsepower numbers are those? 45
Those are track horsepower numbers from a track dyno... and it is why guys always say to invest in clutching first before spending money anywhere else on your sled...to get it as efficient as you can... typically you are only get about 50% of the engine horsepower thru the CVT clutch system and chain case to the track.

The 64.1 is a really good track horsepower number for a stock Etec that is clutched. As most of the stock 600 Etecs are probably only pulling about 116/118 horsepower if that. But the stock clutching is pretty poor from a performance stand point as it was designed to be very smooth, get great fuel economy and great engine reliability. It is fairly easy to improve upon the stock clutching.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
God I didn't realize they were that low haha maybe I shoulda got an 800 lol. Well I got a pipe and silencer today and I will call u guys about a clutch kit. Maybe I should think about reeds and that intake.
 

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The only issue with this is that most guys would have to buy the shaft, bearing tower and Team Tied Secondary to use this Kit. Not knowing what your kit costs, but the team tied clutch and shaft kit etc is in the neighbor hood of $100. The only guys who can afford to take advantage of your work are the guys with the 600RS's with the splined shafts or someone already running a DooDoctor's set up.

Do you have a kit for the stock clutch system withe the QRS? If so, what kind of numbers are you getting with that Kit, knowing that the QRS is almost as efficient as the Team Tied and more efficient than the older team and much more affordable to most of us?
You are correct, the complete kit using the TIED set-up is $990 + shipping. We do have a milder kit for the 600 ETEC, but we are not selling them to the public yet. We have had the more mild set-up on 7 test-sleds over last season as we refined it more from the season prior with high hopes to have them boxed and ready to ship in a couple months. Tim will not put his stamp of approval on any kit leaving until he is 100% certain that it performs well and backs up our claims. It takes a lot of time and energy, but the end result is that everyone will be thrilled. The more mild kit should run arond $350 or so when we begin shipping them and will include changes to both the stock QRS and secondary. I will update as we have more info. -Chris
 

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God I didn't realize they were that low haha maybe I shoulda got an 800 lol. Well I got a pipe and silencer today and I will call u guys about a clutch kit. Maybe I should think about reeds and that intake.
Give Tim a call when you have some free time, the TIED kit will wake the sled right up! He can go more in depth with you about how the kit performs when you both speak to one another on the phone.
 

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nice clutching. How much will the tied kit affect mpg?
 

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You are correct, the complete kit using the TIED set-up is $990 + shipping. We do have a milder kit for the 600 ETEC, but we are not selling them to the public yet. We have had the more mild set-up on 7 test-sleds over last season as we refined it more from the season prior with high hopes to have them boxed and ready to ship in a couple months. Tim will not put his stamp of approval on any kit leaving until he is 100% certain that it performs well and backs up our claims. It takes a lot of time and energy, but the end result is that everyone will be thrilled. The more mild kit should run arond $350 or so when we begin shipping them and will include changes to both the stock QRS and secondary. I will update as we have more info. -Chris
I would love to see a doodoctors QRS secondary with a couple of different stock doo helixes and a couple of different springs - along with a slight pin weight change run off on the same dyno with the same sled ... the $100 clutch set up
Not counting the cost of doing the clutch shaft separation... What's a day of dyno time cost?... I suspect the guy who owns the sled though wouldn't want to abuse it any more in the interest of learning.
 

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hey djm, my 2010 xrs 600 etec comes stock with a blue green primary spring which is 130/260 i do believe can i still run the 160/290 with what weight i have or will i have to adjust weight or just mess with clickers? or should i run a spring like 160/260? thanks for the help
 

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"If you guys can think of anything else that will help performance let me know....?"

The easiest performance gain I have found was to ensure the engine kept running the way it was intended to, or perhaps a little safer if needed. In other words I look at how the engine runs first before any upgrades. Don't worry, I too took notes of any suggested clutching and gearing changes :)
 

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If you are talking 600 etec Backcountry?

I have been up down and all over the place with my 600 etec Backcountry clutching. Ended the season in slushy wet snow and all stock clutching, with only change being a 160-260 primary spring and a purple secondary spring. Stock 48 helix, clicker #3, 412 ramps. This seemed to work well for our style riding but still struggling with slight over rev on top end. Gearing is 22/49.

I really don't like the 412 ramps. I would like to try and make 413s work in it next season.
 

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If you are talking 600 etec Backcountry?

I have been up down and all over the place with my 600 etec Backcountry clutching. Ended the season in slushy wet snow and all stock clutching, with only change being a 160-260 primary spring and a purple secondary spring. Stock 48 helix, clicker #3, 412 ramps. This seemed to work well for our style riding but still struggling with slight over rev on top end. Gearing is 22/49.

I really don't like the 412 ramps. I would like to try and make 413s work in it next season.
Have you considered that your over-revving may be a function of low gearing and overdrive and not your clutching? I went down the same road last season. The DJ kit IS more fun though, so it's all good!
 

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Yes for sure...have been slowly gearing up as well.

Wanting to try some more combos next season. Thanks Brent.
 
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