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Can anyone (Bar??) explain what the numbers mean on primary clutch springs? For example, Dalton has a spring that is 120/230 vs Goodwin Spring 110/250. What is the diff? Thx,
 

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Can anyone (Bar??) explain what the numbers mean on primary clutch springs? For example, Dalton has a spring that is 120/230 vs Goodwin Spring 110/250. What is the diff? Thx,
Dalton Spring 120 vs Goodwin 110 means at compressed height of 60.6mm, the Dalton spring has 10lbs more pressure. Same again, Dalton spring 230 vs Goodwin 250 means at compressed height of 29mm, the Goodwin spring has 20lbs more pressure. Your looking at starting and ending compression of the spring. What this all means is the Dalton spring will have a slightly higher engagement than the Goodwin and the Goodwin spring will have a slightly higher finish rpm than the Dalton. Many different Tuning combination. I gave up on Goodwin because they could not supply the springs when needed. So I came up with another combination that works.

Bob
 

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Here is the chart for better viewing.

#1 My Set Up #2 My Set Up #3 Competitors #4 Competitors

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Notice how Tune #2, the MPH difference compared to the rest of the Tunes. Also how Tune #2 accelerates hard 0-60mph, shifts out, slows just a tad and then brings the MPH up and out MPH and accelerates the other set ups. I believe what is happening to the Competitors set up is, to aggressive Helix angle at the start loading the engine to hard in mid range once it starts to shift out.

From a standing start, you can really feel the difference with Tune #2 compared to the rest of the tunes. When the other Tunes are slowing in mid range, Tune #2 is taking off, real seat of the pants feel on test track. Now on the trail performance, I prefer Tune #1 over all, in the tight and twisties. It has great back shift and accelerates hard off from the corners from 20 to 60 mph and accelerates hard up to 80/85mph. Tune #2 works well on the trail, just does not have the fun factor (Snap/Jerk when accelerating), Tune #2 is faster and easier to go fast in the tight and twisties due to less track spin and lays the power down. With either Tune #1 or #2, I find I only use 1/4 to 1/2 throttle when accelerating through the apex / coming off the turn, it will pull the skis and rip. Tune #3 and #4 had great initial throttle response but lacked snap coming off from the corner. These are my results and opinions, your results and opinions may and will vary do to set ups and conditions.

I believe any one would be happy with any of the Clutch Set Ups tested compared to Factory Clutching. Just remember, on any given day, conditions, set up and driver, results can vary. Any tuner will tell you that you can lose 10mph from one day to the next and lose to your buddies do to conditions.
Care to share what helix angles were in setup #2?
 

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Discussion Starter · #567 ·
I would love to, but way to many guys have bought my clutch kits or helix to share that info. I am retired and no longer selling kits or doing mods. enjoying retirement.

Bob
 

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Discussion Starter · #570 ·
Just listed my Clutch & Suspension Tools in the classifieds under Sled Parts;

Clutch Tools

https://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/1594647-clutch-tools-p-drive-e-drive-tra/

Suspension Tools

https://www.dootalk.com/forums/topic/1594651-a-arm-bushing-remover-installer/

I plan on being here daily through this season and stopping in to check things out from time to time after that. I really appreciate all the comments and views over the years and being part of a Great Forum. Still here to help if I can. Everyone stay safe and have a Merry Christmas!

Bob
 

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During early Winter riding, I noticed an excessive amount of heat coming from the side panels. I researched a lot about venting and what other guys where doing. I decide to use Powair (Vacuum Operated Intake Vents). They come in 2 Inch and 3 Inch versions, I used the 3 inch versions. Of all the vents on the market, I liked these the best, from looks and function. I had to modified them to work in the side panels, due to side panel thickness (see photos). One of the performance shops performed a flow test on under hood temps with different vents and found some surprising results. They discovered the vents covered with nylon type material did not flow as much air as the ones with course screen and as a result, the vents covered with nylon type material, had much higher under hood temps. They also discovered that it was more important to get the hot air out by adding more vents to vent air out instead of adding vents to let more air in. They used temp guns to varafie the results. If I come across the post again, I will do a follow up and post the companies name. Link to where I purchased the vents: http://bikemanperformance.com/snowmobile/ski-doo/4-tec/powair-universal-intake-vents.html

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Powair Vacuum Operated Intake Vent as Package

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Vent with valve removed - Backside

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Front View of Valve

I removed the rubber valve to convert the valve to a flow through valve, requiring no vacuum to open it.
Nice job on the venting, thanks for the info!
 

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Discussion Starter · #572 ·
Glad you liked it!

Bob
 

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This is a great read and built. I also did watch those video. Very informative. I have a question for you.

Have you ever done clutching works on a 600 ace?

I was maybe looking at getting a PB 80 for my 600 ace. But now, I wonder if I could try to get more performance and constancy out of mine. But clutching is not something that I fully understand right now. I am afraid that I could make it worst.
 

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Discussion Starter · #574 ·

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I really like the 600 Ace. Had an opportunity to ride one on several occasions for the day. It's peppy, light and has the Big Fun Factor! Here is a set up you can try and I think you will like it very much.

1. Match the 6 ramps/arms to weight the same and take .6 grams off from each, from the tip only! They will be different weights from the factory! Take your lightest one - remove .6 grams (NOTE - not 6 grams but .6 grams each) and match the rest of the arms / ramps to it.

2. Replace secondary spring with a Dalton DPSS B/Y/G and set tension to 18lbs initial tension.

3. Replace primary spring with a Dalton DPPS W/B

4. Replace puck O-Rings with these - Click link below - they are very durable and make a difference.

https://kwiclutching.com/kwistore/brp-primary-clutch-damper-o-rings-12pk

Well worth the Price + Shipping!

This will be a big improvement over stock and will be very drivable and trail friendly with a nice performance gain.

Bob
 

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mainewood

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  • Location:southern Maine
  • Sled:2016 900 Ace Enduro, 900 Ace Blizzard

Posted Today, 06:51 AM

A little background:

As some of you know, several years ago Bar 549 started a thread detailing modifications he made to his 900 ace blizzard to see what he could do to improve performance over stock. I followed his thread with great interest as I have been an owner of a 900 ace enduro for a number of years.

When Bar posted his sled for sale, I contemplated buying it but at the time didn't think the wife would be excited about me spending money for another sled when I had a perfectly good one already... :rolleyes: sound familiar?

Well... after a week of thinking about it I pulled the trigger and negotiated the purchase with Bar549. He was great and worked with me to get it to my location from Michigan.

OK, now to the present time: I just returned from a 900 mile saddle bag trip in northern Maine, riding with 6 seasoned riders over groomed trails and ungroomed logging roads. Conditions were marginal , but we found some groomed trails with thin cover and logging roads with a foot to a foot and a half of packed powder.

In the group were (2) 900 turbos, (1) 1200 , (1) Yamaha and (3) 900 aces. We rode logging roads with long sweeping turns and long runs, tight and twisty groomed trails with marginal cover. I have to say that Bar hit the nail on the head with the mods. he did to this little 900. It rocks :D I am not saying it can compete with the big boys, but I can say I never lost sight of any of them on the trip. Mid range acceleration is impressive over stock and it rails the corners. The suspension set up, along with the mods. have made this a giant killer on the trails IMHO. And the best part is the gas mileage is right on par with the other (2) stock 900 aces on the trip ;) There were 2 other experienced riders who rode Bar's sled and they concurred that it was a blast to ride ;)

In conclusion, I would encourage any 900 ace owners to read Bar's thread if you want a little more performance out ot the little 900. Just doing the clutch mod will make a big difference. I want to thank Bar for selling me his sled and for his contributions on this forum.

:righton :buddies:

Thought I would post this here from the General Topic Forum.

Thank you again for your kind words.

Bob
 

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I've completed Bar's recommended Stage 1 and 2 clutch tuning with great results. I haven't got many miles on it yet but I do notice a general increase in RPM (500-600 rpm) at normal trail riding speed and it does max out at about 7800 rpm on wide open runs. Just wondering - has anyone noticed an associated decrease in mpg?

Thanks Bar for all of your great advice on these 900 Aces!
 

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See my post above. "And the best part is the gas mileage is right on par with the other (2) stock 900 aces on the trip " Gas mileage on a 900 mile trip was exactly the same as (2) other stock 900 aces!
 

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Discussion Starter · #580 ·
As stated above, it's close if not the same as a stock 900 ACE. All depends on gas, conditions and riding style when comparing apples to apples! When sleds are run in a similar fashion, mileage will be very close.

Bob
 
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