Ski-Doo Snowmobiles Forum banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know the 2009 500ss motor has a jetting issue. My problem is I just bought a used 2009 GTX with the 500ss motor and will not be able to ride it for some time. I have read all of gadgetguru's jetting posts and was wondering if I should just change the needles and jets as gadget did now before ever riding this sled. IF BY CHANCE YOU READ THIS GADGET, can you tell me if you actually measured the 2010 needles?? Some say raise the stock needle and increase the pilot to a size 20. I read gadgets changes and he decreased the pilot to a 15 and the main to a 390 (I think)plus used a different needle alltogether which was shimmed in addition to the full rich clip position. Thanks for any info. PS. Has anyone actually had the ECM remapped with less midrange advance?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
934 Posts
I know the 2009 500ss motor has a jetting issue. My problem is I just bought a used 2009 GTX with the 500ss motor and will not be able to ride it for some time. I have read all of gadgetguru's jetting posts and was wondering if I should just change the needles and jets as gadget did now before ever riding this sled. IF BY CHANCE YOU READ THIS GADGET, can you tell me if you actually measured the 2010 needles?? Some say raise the stock needle and increase the pilot to a size 20. I read gadgets changes and he decreased the pilot to a 15 and the main to a 390 (I think)plus used a different needle alltogether which was shimmed in addition to the full rich clip position. Thanks for any info. PS. Has anyone actually had the ECM remapped with less midrange advance?
I am not sure, but I think the ECM in the 2009's were remapped from that of the 2008's, so it might not have the mid-range "hot spot" issue. You still might have to up the pilots to 20's from the 17.5's if you develop the creeping idle issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,289 Posts
I am not sure, but I think the ECM in the 2009's were remapped from that of the 2008's, so it might not have the mid-range "hot spot" issue. You still might have to up the pilots to 20's from the 17.5's if you develop the creeping idle issue.
While I laud all the testing and publishing that gadget did and it is working for him albeit with fuel economy close to a rev 800 ptek; there are a lot of 2009's that are still running that are running stock jetting and getting much better mileage and they are not failing. Worse case, I would follow Rottn-jonny's lead.. and just shim the stock needles 0.010" to 0.020" and screw 20 pilots in it and ride it. Use good fuel to avoid detonation and you will be fine. You will be slightly richer then stock and stock does work, contrary to the EGT readings.

No matter what, Ski-Doo can't put out a sled and engine that will fail a large percentage or everyone of them. The damage it would do them financially and to their reputation would be catestrophic. A correct running series three Doo engine has plugs that are almost white (scary white) and they run without failing. While EGT's can be an excellent tuning tool, they are not the end all be all. They don't tell you what the actual fuel air ratio is. You need the 02 sensor and guage for that function and in a two stroke using a lot of oil, they don't last long, but they do work for tuning purposes.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,990 Posts
I guess I look at it this way, being a 2009 its on season 3 and is still running, I dont see the point in making an issue of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
I know the 2009 500ss motor has a jetting issue. My problem is I just bought a used 2009 GTX with the 500ss motor and will not be able to ride it for some time. I have read all of gadgetguru's jetting posts and was wondering if I should just change the needles and jets as gadget did now before ever riding this sled. IF BY CHANCE YOU READ THIS GADGET, can you tell me if you actually measured the 2010 needles?? Some say raise the stock needle and increase the pilot to a size 20. I read gadgets changes and he decreased the pilot to a 15 and the main to a 390 (I think)plus used a different needle alltogether which was shimmed in addition to the full rich clip position. Thanks for any info. PS. Has anyone actually had the ECM remapped with less midrange advance?
I had the exact same sled and read all the same stuff you have. I did not have a problem but shimmed the needles anyway. After riding it for awhile and checking the plugs it was pretty obvious it was running too rich. I put it back to stock and it was running great. I would not change it unless you are sure there is a problem.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
886 Posts
Wifes 08 tnt,shimed needle 0.20,20 pilots and stock 380 mains.Runs great,wash is good,couple mins and your done.Rising the main jet size just makes it rich,look back at the older 600 with hooded carbs....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
to TT670 This sled has only 800 mi on it all by the previous owner (an older couple). I just bought it and will not be able to see how it runs until there is snow. I especially don't want it to have a burn down if I can prevent it with the short season we have. Like you and some other's said, I may never have a problem. Is there anything I could check right now to see if there are signs of a lean condition and/or damage? I talked to the original owner and he said he never had a problem. He brought it in at 500 mi for a preseason check up last yr and said the dealer changed the plugs to BR9ECS and leaned out the fuel screws....don't know why though.
 

·
Gadgetguru
Joined
·
578 Posts
Everyone has their opinions, and that is cool. I usually have to ride alone most of the time, mid-week, 200 miles per day my absolute minimum, and want the most bulletproof setup I can have. Some say they have had no problems etc. etc. GREAT! Go ahead and keep your settings. And while you are blipping the throttle all the time or keeping the rpm out of a certain spot, I'm riding with no worries. True, EGT isn't a tell all, but I know that aluminum melts, and for ME, 1330* is NOT a comfortable temp. to ride at! I also use a bore scope. The problem could be the mapping, and throwing more fuel "might" be a band-aid, but it WORKS. The 09 was not the best year, because there were also bad cyl to boot. NO jetting change will fix a bad cyl.

I have the needles from the 2010. Same taper, just different location. The clip position is lowered, which is richer. I had planned on doing some tests just to see, but due to poor snowfall last season I just rode with my current setup. For those naysayers, I would ask "Why be bullheaded and run it stock when you can have better for the cost of a couple of jets?" This "work the throttle" or "flip the choke" is really kind of lame, don't you think? Why not just FIX it! The cost of gas and hotel and driving for 5 hours, then getting 200 miles from the truck and burning down, then having to figure out how to get back, is NOT my idea of fun. That is just MY way of thinking. To each his own.

Stock 380 mains
06 needles
15 pilots

14.5 mpg is about the best I can get. Worst is around 12. Fuel is cheaper than parts!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
While I laud all the testing and publishing that gadget did and it is working for him albeit with fuel economy close to a rev 800 ptek; there are a lot of 2009's that are still running that are running stock jetting and getting much better mileage and they are not failing. Worse case, I would follow Rottn-jonny's lead.. and just shim the stock needles 0.010" to 0.020" and screw 20 pilots in it and ride it. Use good fuel to avoid detonation and you will be fine. You will be slightly richer then stock and stock does work, contrary to the EGT readings.

No matter what, Ski-Doo can't put out a sled and engine that will fail a large percentage or everyone of them. The damage it would do them financially and to their reputation would be catestrophic. A correct running series three Doo engine has plugs that are almost white (scary white) and they run without failing. While EGT's can be an excellent tuning tool, they are not the end all be all. They don't tell you what the actual fuel air ratio is. You need the 02 sensor and guage for that function and in a two stroke using a lot of oil, they don't last long, but they do work for tuning purposes.
djm I hear what your saying and I have to admit the posts that gadget wrote on the EGT temps have me concerned. Do you really think the 20 pilots are necessary? I have know way of knowing if this sled has any problems as I have never run it. It has 800 original miles all by the previous owner. I also don't know what the percentage of 2009 sleds w/ the 500ss motor have had problems. There definatly seems to be a problem for the people who have posted on here. I am just trying to prempt a burn down and not have problems when the season starts. Thanks for your reply and if you can think of anything I can check now to see if there is signs of a lean condition please let me know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I had the exact same sled and read all the same stuff you have. I did not have a problem but shimmed the needles anyway. After riding it for awhile and checking the plugs it was pretty obvious it was running too rich. I put it back to stock and it was running great. I would not change it unless you are sure there is a problem.
bmacz6 Thanks for replying. Did you ever change the pilot jets to 20's? I don't have any idea how this sled will run as the 800 miles that are on it are all by the previous "original" owner. From what I have read the increase to 20 pilots is for a hanging idle issue. I am just trying to prevent a problem I might have before the season starts. Can you tell me how many miles you have on your 500? Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I am not sure, but I think the ECM in the 2009's were remapped from that of the 2008's, so it might not have the mid-range "hot spot" issue. You still might have to up the pilots to 20's from the 17.5's if you develop the creeping idle issue.
jdmxz Thanks for your input. I know they made changes in the 2009 vs 2008, but I have know idea if they corrected the ECM "hot spot" issue. From what I have read on here and other sites, 2009 500ss have had problems. I talked to the original owner and he said his son's 2010 550 fan blew the first day they went out, but he never had problems with the 500 I just bought. I know you have a 550...Were there issues with them being lean also?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Everyone has their opinions, and that is cool. I usually have to ride alone most of the time, mid-week, 200 miles per day my absolute minimum, and want the most bulletproof setup I can have. Some say they have had no problems etc. etc. GREAT! Go ahead and keep your settings. And while you are blipping the throttle all the time or keeping the rpm out of a certain spot, I'm riding with no worries. True, EGT isn't a tell all, but I know that aluminum melts, and for ME, 1330* is NOT a comfortable temp. to ride at! I also use a bore scope. The problem could be the mapping, and throwing more fuel "might" be a band-aid, but it WORKS. The 09 was not the best year, because there were also bad cyl to boot. NO jetting change will fix a bad cyl.

I have the needles from the 2010. Same taper, just different location. The clip position is lowered, which is richer. I had planned on doing some tests just to see, but due to poor snowfall last season I just rode with my current setup. For those naysayers, I would ask "Why be bullheaded and run it stock when you can have better for the cost of a couple of jets?" This "work the throttle" or "flip the choke" is really kind of lame, don't you think? Why not just FIX it! The cost of gas and hotel and driving for 5 hours, then getting 200 miles from the truck and burning down, then having to figure out how to get back, is NOT my idea of fun. That is just MY way of thinking. To each his own.

Stock 380 mains
06 needles
15 pilots

14.5 mpg is about the best I can get. Worst is around 12. Fuel is cheaper than parts!
gadget Thanks for replying. The reason I asked you about the 2010 needles is because a reputable local dealer said their shop was installing the 2010 needles to correct the problem. I remember reading that you compared the 2010 and 2008 needles. Are you saying they are the same taper with just a lower slot for the clip? Kind of like moving the needle up such as when you add shims. I know you have a 2008 and mine is a 2009 so we are not comparing apples to apples. Like I have mentioned in previous posts I have not run this sled at all. The 800 miles on it are all by the original owner who seems to be a very honest older gentleman. That doesn't mean there isn't a problem waiting to happen. That is what I am trying to prevent by asking all these questions of the good folks on DOO Talk! As I have asked others, is there something I could look for to tell if there has been a lean condition? Just rather do it now then when the seasons here and I could be out of commission.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Wifes 08 tnt,shimed needle 0.20,20 pilots and stock 380 mains.Runs great,wash is good,couple mins and your done.Rising the main jet size just makes it rich,look back at the older 600 with hooded carbs....
big tom thanks for replying. Could you tell me how many miles you have? You added the .020 shims and changed to the 20 pilots. What was your reason if you don't mind me asking. My sled is a 2009 and comes stock with the 420 mains so Skidoo did that for a reason. Don't ask me why if the problem is the mid range being too lean. They changed the needle in 2010 however.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
934 Posts
jdmxz Thanks for your input. I know they made changes in the 2009 vs 2008, but I have know idea if they corrected the ECM "hot spot" issue. From what I have read on here and other sites, 2009 500ss have had problems. I talked to the original owner and he said his son's 2010 550 fan blew the first day they went out, but he never had problems with the 500 I just bought. I know you have a 550...Were there issues with them being lean also?
The 2010 550f's did have a lean issue very early. It was brought to BRP's attention by the businesses that use the 550f motors in their rental fleets. It was enough of a problem that BRP sent out an official notification and repair specifications. If you have one and did not purchase it new, you should be able to have your local dealer run the vin. and they could tell you if the work has been completed. It was a needle shim and air screw adjustment. The sleds that were not corrected went down very early on.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,990 Posts
Get those BR9 plugs out of there, too hot. The spec'ed plug is a Br10 for the 09 500ss. I wont argue with gadgets EGT findings, its factual evidence but doesnt necessarily mean a failure is imminent. Im pretty certain that for every 500ss that had a siezure theres many more that have been running flawlessly with probably better odds of success than if we were talking 800's.
 

·
Gadgetguru
Joined
·
578 Posts
The reason I asked you about the 2010 needles is because a reputable local dealer said their shop was installing the 2010 needles to correct the problem. I remember reading that you compared the 2010 and 2008 needles. Are you saying they are the same taper with just a lower slot for the clip? Kind of like moving the needle up such as when you add shims.
I would "guess" that the 2010 needles are good to go. I intend to install them when I get time just to see how it runs. Until then, I'm happy. In answer to your question, yes. I also run the 9 plugs, and read them with a magnifier.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,915 Posts
Hey TT670, I may have told you wrong. My manual does call for the BR10ECS and i believe thats what i have in it. Gonna double check tomorrow tho.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
827 Posts
bmacz6 Thanks for replying. Did you ever change the pilot jets to 20's? I don't have any idea how this sled will run as the 800 miles that are on it are all by the previous "original" owner. From what I have read the increase to 20 pilots is for a hanging idle issue. I am just trying to prevent a problem I might have before the season starts. Can you tell me how many miles you have on your 500? Thanks
1431 miles I was running the stock pilots.

If you are looking for a proactive step the 2010 needles sounds like the way to go. There really should be no downside to this approach. You are right about the season being short and trying to prevent a problem from occurring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
110 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
1431 miles I was running the stock pilots.

If you are looking for a proactive step the 2010 needles sounds like the way to go. There really should be no downside to this approach. You are right about the season being short and trying to prevent a problem from occurring.
I guess I will try the 2010 needles as a proactive step. You said you were running rich with the needles shimmed and whet back to the stock set up. Did you foul any plugs? And are you running the BR10ESC? Sorry for all the questions just trying to set mine up based on all the good info I'm getting.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top