[AK600SDI]

I have a 2018 Expedition Sport equipped with the 600 ACE. The last 20" wide I rode was about a 2005 model Skandic with the 600 2-stroke. I've not ridden the new model wide tracks.

Will a new model Expedition (20" wide) with the 900 ACE perform significantly better in the deeper snow than my 16" wide 600 ACE? Have any of you had a side by side comparison between the two machines where one would get stuck and the other creep on by? The 20" wide obviously has a bigger footprint but it also weighs about 130 lbs. more with the 900. I was just curious as to what to expect between the two machines.

 

[mannix]

I'm a big believer in track width. I don't have any side by side experience with the two you mention, but my 2013 24" SWT floats around effortlessly in snow that my 163x16 Summit "struggles" in.

That comparison is apples to apples in that I'm trying to do the same thing with the summit as I do skandic - lower speed, breaking trail - it is not entirely fair to the Summit, since the summit was not really intended to do that; the summit is more capable in many ways, if you use it as it was intended to be used.

That said, the Summit weighs uh, dunno 550# with fuel and oil? The Skandic has a claimed dry weight of 667, IIRC, call it 750 wet - the Summit is a bunch lighter before I put all my crap on it - I normally have about 100# of Stuff on it - skis, ski rack, full size chainsaw, portable winch, ropes, machete, extraction junk, extra clothes, etc etc etc - the skandic still easily "outfloats" the Summit.

I would personally expect the 20" to be similarly more capable than the 16" track. By my math a gen5 Summit with a 175x16" track is getting close to the Skandic in terms of pounds per square inch.

I hope it helps!

 

[AK600SDI]

Any additional thoughts on a Expedition with the 900 ACE Turbo (130 hp) with a 1.8" track ordered from the factory? My current riding seems to be poking around the woods off trail, hunting while pulling a toboggan, with some open country exploration here in AK. The above machine seems like it would be a good choice. What I struggle with is I am coming from 2-stroke mountain machine (M8) and although I love the quiet of the 4-stroke and it's ability to poke around going slow I find it rather pathetic when asked to climb much of a hill! I know I can't have both, but would like to find the best machine for both worlds while sticking with the 4 stroke.

 

[mannix]

900t? Jamiepenney on here has one, it appears to be, uh, capable.

(IE, ridiculous, in a good way)

I'm nowhere near mature nor reasonable enough to buy a four stroke, though.

 

[groo]

I have a 2018 Expedition Sport equipped with the 600 ACE. The last 20" wide I rode was about a 2005 model Skandic with the 600 2-stroke. I've not ridden the new model wide tracks.

Will a new model Expedition (20" wide) with the 900 ACE perform significantly better in the deeper snow than my 16" wide 600 ACE? Have any of you had a side by side comparison between the two machines where one would get stuck and the other creep on by? The 20" wide obviously has a bigger footprint but it also weighs about 130 lbs. more with the 900. I was just curious as to what to expect between the two machines.

if you want to do math, look at loaded (machine wet weight, operator dressed, the various crap you carry around, and probably another 30 lbs of ice and snow) lbs/sqr inch of track. none of that accounts for the added benefit of low range either.

 

[cgkeesler]

I would say for “poking around” you don’t want a turbo. A turbo will really only help when in wide open deep snow or running up hills. If you’re riding slow, towing a sled through the woods, I would definitely stick with the 600 or 900 ACE, IMO.
As for your previous question, yes, the 20” will float considerably better than a 16”, without trenching as quickly in deeper snow. While it’s not a SWT, the WT will still allow you to go slow and still float on top of the snow.
As a side benefit, the 20” WT also has the hi/low gearbox allowing you to creep through the deep stuff in low gear. That’s a huge benefit to me

 

[AK600SDI]

I guess I have read that the turbo is kind of all or nothing type of power and not great for poking around.

 

[cgkeesler]

1. It adds weight and complexity to the sled (more to go wrong in the woods). If you don’t need it for top end speed (trail riding or open powder), why have it for poking through the woods?
2. It is geared higher than the 900 or 600 ACE. That’s great for top end speed but isn’t as good when you want to crawl through the woods in deeper, unbroken snow. I think you will have more control and torque with the lower geared 900 ACE and also won’t risk spinning down and trenching as much.
Here in Alaska, the 900 NA is a more popular engine for some of those reasons and for its dependability.
This is in my humble opinion and worth what you paid for it! 😁

 

[fast eddy]

1. It adds weight and complexity to the sled (more to go wrong in the woods). If you don’t need it for top end speed (trail riding or open powder), why have it for poking through the woods?
2. It is geared higher than the 900 or 600 ACE. That’s great for top end speed but isn’t as good when you want to crawl through the woods in deeper, unbroken snow. I think you will have more control and torque with the lower geared 900 ACE and also won’t risk spinning down and trenching as much.
Here in Alaska, the 900 NA is a more popular engine for some of those reasons and for its dependability.
This is in my humble opinion and worth what you paid for it! 😁

The turbos are reliable especially when you do good warm ups and cool downs. If you’re worried about trenching in the woods use eco mode. The #30 extra weight is nothing when you weigh the sled, fuel, tools, ropes, axe etc not to mention the #200 operator. Also for poking around the the 1.5” track is superior to the 1.8 for dodging thru trees at low speed.

 

[DorkMissile]

Well - spent 8 days riding in the Snowy Range off trail with my Expedition Xtreme. Went with a 154" 800R Summit, a 800 ProRMK 154 and a 850 154 summit and heard it over and over on the drive out "we are going to be pulling that heavy ass Expedition out all day long".

Yet, after the end of each day, I was the one leading the group and pointing my sled at the deepest snow and climbing the most. There are just a few advantages the Expeditions have Yes, the 20" track helps, but mind you they are rocking 2.5" paddles, I have 1.8". But the rear skid with how it transfers weight, and I think the belly pan / bodywork really lets an Expedition "get on plane" way easier than a mountain sled. The A arms dont hang down and drag so much in the snow. It's like cheating. Can I split thru the trees while running up a hill like them? No. Everything else and I am all over them.

Short of one blind cornice that I rode over that dropped 9' strait down, I didn't get stuck once in 600 miles of riding.

As far as a 900ACE, I wouldn't be caught dead with one off trail. And yes, Ive had 4 stroke sleds, never going to buy one ESPECIALLY to ride off trail. It isn't just the weight - its the calibration and they way they make their power. A BRP 4 stroke has a drive by wire throttle, and a primary clutch that is made to constantly slip (6 post clutch is not fixed to the end of the crankshaft like the pDrive is). They are ok for trail cruising, but it is a knife to a gun fight off trail. Too slow revving, poor clutch configuration.

There is only one model Expedition with a 20" track that is under 600lbs - a 850 Extreme. The nearest 900ace with a 20" track is a LE, and it will only have the Cobra 1.5" track on it.

If you HAVE to have a 900ace, I would honestly look at another Expedition Sport before the wide track sleds. But if you have to have the 20" track then I would look at a 850Xtreme. My sled is a 2021,and after riding it three years I would buy it all over again. The thing is REALLY good at a lot of things. Not like how a Renegade is a "so so" trail sled and a "so so" off trail sled. The Xtreme does a lot of things well enough hat it comes down to the rider.

 

[AKDoug]

Plenty of us make 900 ACE SWT and WT's work just fine off trail up here in Alaska. They are certainly more reliable than 850's when putting high mileage on them.

 

[badriverexpy]

Last year with the deep sugar snow we stayed on top of the snow with our 2016 expy900 le.(three of on the snogo for a total weight of around 400 pounds or so.)
Only sank a couple of inches.

My cousin with a 2015 expy sport 550 was sinking past the footwells and kept getting stuck. (They weighed 250 pounds)

I am sold on the 20in wide track and if I was logging more I would go for the swt.
But the wife would like a little smaller snogo.

 

[SHOTGUNRUSS]

Any additional thoughts on a Expedition with the 900 ACE Turbo (130 hp) with a 1.8" track ordered from the factory? My current riding seems to be poking around the woods off trail, hunting while pulling a toboggan, with some open country exploration here in AK. The above machine seems like it would be a good choice. What I struggle with is I am coming from 2-stroke mountain machine (M8) and although I love the quiet of the 4-stroke and it's ability to poke around going slow I find it rather pathetic when asked to climb much of a hill! I know I can't have both, but would like to find the best machine for both worlds while sticking with the 4 stroke.

Why not the 600r le? As close to best of both worlds and from all accounts from this forum very dependable.

 

[AK600SDI]

Why not the 600r le? As close to best of both worlds and from all accounts from this forum very dependable.

That is tempting and would be a great machine with some weight and HP advantages over the 900. The greatly reduced noise of the 4-stroke kind of put the hook in me for hunting and poking around the woods behind the house (neighbors can't hear me).

 

[cgkeesler]

That is tempting and would be a great machine with some weight and HP advantages over the 900. The greatly reduced noise of the 4-stroke kind of put the hook in me for hunting and poking around the woods behind the house (neighbors can't hear me).

Just curious, what part of Alaska do you live in?

 

[AK600SDI]

Just curious, what part of Alaska do you live in?

Currently in Wasilla, previously in Fbks.

 

[suv1]

I guess I have read that the turbo is kind of all or nothing type of power and not great for poking around.

You read right

 

[BackcountryBruce]

I have an Expedition SE with the 600R and 1.8 inch track, I normally have to go back when riding deep powder to help the 16inch Expeditions. Your original question was comparison of the 16 inch Expedition 900 Ace to the 20 inch Expedition with 600 Ace. In my circle of riding friends I have experienced the comparison first hand the 900 Ace 20 inch will out ride the 16 inch in all conditions. In my part of the world, the 20 inch Expedition 900 ACE is quite possibly the most common sled configuration.

 

[AK600SDI]

I have an Expedition SE with the 600R and 1.8 inch track, I normally have to go back when riding deep powder to help the 16inch Expeditions. Your original question was comparison of the 16 inch Expedition 900 Ace to the 20 inch Expedition with 600 Ace. In my circle of riding friends I have experienced the comparison first hand the 900 Ace 20 inch will out ride the 16 inch in all conditions. In my part of the world, the 20 inch Expedition 900 ACE is quite possibly the most common sled configuration.

I thought that would be the case, thanks. When you run the numbers of lbs./sq.inch between the two machines in question the difference seems insignificant but I figured the 20" wide would still float much better in real world conditions.

How does your 600R with the 1.8" compare to a 900 Ace with 1.5"?

 

[BackcountryBruce]

The 600R has 40 more HP to spin the truck as well as a lighter front end, making the 600r more nimble for getting around. I was a Summit rider for 10 years prior to getting my SE in 2021 and do most of the play things that I did with my Summits. Fuel mileage and oil consumption is excellent..