1996 Skandic WT 500F - 10k Maintenance

954 Views 27 Replies 10 Participants Last post by LabradorBoy, 3 d ago

LabradorBoy

Discussion Starter · 17 d ago

Picked up this old girl late last Fall to use as a groomer donkey. Great shape, but it was making funny sounds in the drivetrain and finally at the end of the season it started leaking gearbox oil. I feared that the gearbox had failed and she was headed for the scrap heap.

Tore into it yesterday and removed the rear skid, driveaxle and gearbox... Found the grinding sound, driveaxle brg on the throttle side was gone gone and seized in the holder.

Got it on the bench and it appears that the shaft was spinning inside the inner race and the shaft is worn down: should be 25mm, is more like 23mm at shoulder and 21mm at the end of the shaft. Crap. There are no machine shops here that can practically build up the shaft again, that would require a significant investment.

Not sure what my options are but I mocked things up with electrical tape to center the brg half decent tonight and I'm contemplating welding the brg on, being careful with heat. Hardest part would be that the brg has to go on the shaft after it's in the chassis (because of brg holder assembly sequence) so I can't weld it on the bench. Not sure what I'm going to do there.

Welding is semi-permanent but I'm not sure what else I can do to get this thing back moving without a significant investment. Any ideas?

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97Skandic22

· #2 · 17 d ago

Have the shaft turned down to a new OD and a tight fitting bushing (sleeve) turned with the new bearing ID as the bushing OD. Use bearing lock adhesive when driving the bushing onto the shaft if needed. Seems like the shaft is worn enough that the custom bushing would have some appreciable wall thickness. I would expect a capable machine shop could do this. It comes back to you ready to install. Not sure if the cost is within your budget goal, but it would be a permanent fix.

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suv1

· #3 · 17 d ago

LabradorBoy said:
Picked up this old girl late last Fall to use as a groomer donkey. Great shape, but it was making funny sounds in the drivetrain and finally at the end of the season it started leaking gearbox oil. I feared that the gearbox had failed and she was headed for the scrap heap.

Tore into it yesterday and removed the rear skid, driveaxle and gearbox... Found the grinding sound, driveaxle brg on the throttle side was gone gone and seized in the holder.

Got it on the bench and it appears that the shaft was spinning inside the inner race and the shaft is worn down: should be 25mm, is more like 23mm at shoulder and 21mm at the end of the shaft. Crap. There are no machine shops here that can practically build up the shaft again, that would require a significant investment.

Not sure what my options are but I mocked things up with electrical tape to center the brg half decent tonight and I'm contemplating welding the brg on, being careful with heat. Hardest part would be that the brg has to go on the shaft after it's in the chassis (because of brg holder assembly sequence) so I can't weld it on the bench. Not sure what I'm going to do there.

Welding is semi-permanent but I'm not sure what else I can do to get this thing back moving without a significant investment. Any ideas?

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Did that before, the tape is just to center the bearing on the shaft, with everything locked in place it should be fine, personally i would have split a piece of copper tubing and pounded it in there, probably not worn enough for that though

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alainm

· #4 · 17 d ago

I vote for turning it down and using a bushing.

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18000HP

· #5 · 17 d ago

suv1 said:
Did that before, the tape is just to center the bearing on the shaft, with everything locked in place it should be fine, personally i would have split a piece of copper tubing and pounded it in there, probably not worn enough for that though

If this machine will not work hard or go on long / far rides, the tape fix should be fine.
But definitely, turning the shaft + sleeve would be a much better / permanent fix.
Too bad you can't find a used shaft in a scrap yard.
That guy doing gearbox rebuilt maybe would know where to find one.

LabradorBoy

Discussion Starter · #6 · 17 d ago

suv1 said:
Did that before, the tape is just to center the bearing on the shaft, with everything locked in place it should be fine, personally i would have split a piece of copper tubing and pounded it in there, probably not worn enough for that though

Some excellent ideas there. I'm actually thinking about using foil heat tape as the build-up material, as it is semi-metallic and won't turn to goo upon welding. The copper pipe is a great idea but you're right, I don't think it's worn down enough to take much of it.

LabradorBoy

Discussion Starter · #7 · 17 d ago

alainm said:
I vote for turning it down and using a bushing.

So do I but a $600 investment in this $1000 sled isn't in the budget.

LabradorBoy

Discussion Starter · #8 · 17 d ago

97Skandic22 said:
Have the shaft turned down to a new OD and a tight fitting bushing (sleeve) turned with the new bearing ID as the bushing OD. Use bearing lock adhesive when driving the bushing onto the shaft if needed. Seems like the shaft is worn enough that the custom bushing would have some appreciable wall thickness. I would expect a capable machine shop could do this. It comes back to you ready to install. Not sure if the cost is within your budget goal, but it would be a permanent fix.

Yes that's exactly how I would do it were this my primary sled. This is sled # 4 or 5 and I use it primarily to groom some local trails and the sliding hill for the kids so I cannot spend a ton of cash on this one. It will have to be a "red around the neck area" fix until I can find a replacement used drive axle somewhere for cheaps. These projects are fun, and we sometimes surprise ourselves with how long the "temporary fix" lasts.

LabradorBoy

Discussion Starter · #9 · 17 d ago

18000HP said:
If this machine will not work hard or go on long / far rides, the tape fix should be fine.
But definitely, turning the shaft + sleeve would be a much better / permanent fix.
Too bad you can't find a used shaft in a scrap yard.
That guy doing gearbox rebuilt maybe would know where to find one.

It will only stay local, so there is no real potential for disaster. I may very well find a used shaft eventually, but not this week and this thing is currently occupying too much of the service bay. I think foil tape and a couple of welds will get the call tonight. Wish me luck

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suv1

· #10 · 17 d ago (Edited)

I got the perfect solution for ya, what's your address?!!

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tmacneil

· #11 · 17 d ago

Is there any way to use something like JB Weld to fill the space between the shaft and the bearing?
Center 1 outside edge with an O-ring, add JB weld, center other side with O-ring, then weld in place.

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suv1

· #12 · 16 d ago

Yes JB weld would work fine, the trick is to get the bearing centered on the shaft, what i have done in some cases is to punch the shaft with a center punch a series of indentations alll around the shaft full width of the bearing, the swelling around punch holes holds the bearing snug & center, coat in JB weld and drive the bearing on, but this would not work if the shaft is worn too much

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LabradorBoy

Discussion Starter · #13 · 16 d ago

tmacneil said:
Is there any way to use something like JB Weld to fill the space between the shaft and the bearing?
Center 1 outside edge with an O-ring, add JB weld, center other side with O-ring, then weld in place.

Not a bad idea at all, I like the idea of temporarily holding it in place with an o-ring. More thoughts...

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LabradorBoy

Discussion Starter · #14 · 16 d ago

suv1 said:
Yes JB weld would work fine, the trick is to get the bearing centered on the shaft, what i have done in some cases is to punch the shaft with a center punch a series of indentations alll around the shaft full width of the bearing, the swelling around punch holes holds the bearing snug & center, coat in JB weld and drive the bearing on, but this would not work if the shaft is worn too much

Such a smart, practical way to do it. Shaft is too far gone for the dimpling to make up the difference, from what I can see. With the weld method the inside edge will be semi-permanently on the drive axle. I don't like that idea as it will be very difficult to get the brg off if it has to be changed again in future. I doubt that will ever really be my issue, but I still don't like it. Easy to grind the outer welds off at the end of the shaft, but those inners inside the tunnel will be misery to grind/cut/punch off.

How does JB weld respond to sanding? Starting to wonder if I couldn't build up the shaft a bit with it and then adjust manually with sandpaper but that might take a lot of effort and there's no way of knowing if your work is centered. At least with the tape it's a gradual build up on all sides of the shaft.

Still thinking. I have the weekend to figure this out.

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18000HP

· #15 · 16 d ago

If you don't have access to a metal lathe, maybe one for wood would be good enough to spin the shaft to make it nice and round with a file.
Then maybe you could remove enough material to fit a piece of sliced thin or thick copper pipe to act as a sleeve.
Glue it all together with JBweld if you have to and you're in business.
Keep us posted on what will be your solution.

tmacneil

· #16 · 16 d ago

Could a bushing like this be made to work? Its pretty close to your dimensions (there were a few hundred pages of other options)
uxcell Flanged Sleeve Bearings 22mm Bore x 25mm OD x 25mm Length x 32mm Flange Dia x 1.5mm Flange Thickness Wrapped Oilless Bushings 2pcs : Amazon.ca: Industrial & Scientific

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Red Rooster

· #17 · 16 d ago

Send me the shaft I'll turn it down for you. Ai t gonna snow until November

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suv1

· #18 · 16 d ago

I'm guessing it's the same shaft as the early 2000's....only difference is i think is the 1996 had a smaller end (same size spline ) that goes into the transmission...a picture of the spline end would confirm if the shaft was upgraded to the bigger one, if so i may have 1 or 2 and could find a half dozen or so in the local scrap yard...then there's the logistic issue to get it up there low cost?

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LabradorBoy

Discussion Starter · #19 · 15 d ago

suv1 said:
I'm guessing it's the same shaft as the early 2000's....only difference is i think is the 1996 had a smaller end (same size spline ) that goes into the transmission...a picture of the spline end would confirm if the shaft was upgraded to the bigger one, if so i may have 1 or 2 and could find a half dozen or so in the local scrap yard...then there's the logistic issue to get it up there low cost?

The seal in the gearbox was 26/52/8 so the shaft OD should be 26mm at the gearbox spline end. I highly doubt that the driveaxle was upgraded on this one, it is stocker than stock and in a fellows shed for years. See if you can find one, I'll get you a pic when I'm back after the weekend. Replacement would be ideal over any machining, there should be dozens of these scrapped out there.

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LabradorBoy

Discussion Starter · #20 · 15 d ago

Red Rooster said:
Send me the shaft I'll turn it down for you. Ai t gonna snow until November

That is unbelievably appreciated. There is a local guy that is potentially offering to do it after this coming week, but suv1's replacement shaft is probably the best option if we can make it work.

If he comes up blank, I'll go the machining route, thank you very kindly.

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