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okay so i bought a 1977 ski doo Everest 440 that ran but would not turn the pto. i fixed that problem by replacing the points and spark plugs. Then it ran great till it ran for 10 minutes and started to bog out no matter how much throttle i gave it. After inspecting the spark plugs i found out i was only getting a strong spark from the left cylinder (if you`re sitting on it looking foreword). Then i proceeded to test the external coil for the right cylinder and it was okay. so i reset my points and replaced the condensers without adjusting the timing (i assumed the timing was good since it ran prior to this). The new condensers also tested good. Now i get no spark whatsoever. Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.
 

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Start by unplugging the harness at the engine - rule out any other wiring issues, kill switch, etc. If you still have no spark, look for a pinched wire or something shorting to ground inside or behind the stator. Check your connections at the coils, they should be tight as well
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Start by unplugging the harness at the engine - rule out any other wiring issues, kill switch, etc. If you still have no spark, look for a pinched wire or something shorting to ground inside or behind the stator. Check your connections at the coils, they should be tight as well
I just tried all of that and the only problem i can seem to find is that the condensers should be pushed farther back into the armature plate but i dont know if their position in it really makes a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
This may be a stupid question but now I just realized that the flywheel slightly rubs the coils on the armature plate. From what I understand it's supposed to have an air gap but pls correct me if I'm wrong lol

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Having a similar issue and thanks to this forum I've learned some things, I too adjusted the points without disturbing the timing, or so I thought.... decreasing gap retards timing and increasing gap advances timing, my points were barely opening and when I set them to .014" now I am backfiring and no start. Back to timing by moving stator. Good luck with yours!! You are in good hands here and you will learn the ways :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Good to know, do you know if/how to adjust the air gap between the flywheel and the coils? I believe it's grounding on them

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The '78 manual is at http://www.vintagesnow.com/Ski-Doo_files/1978%20Shop%20Manual.pdf (should be pretty much the same for your '77). Did you replace or move the lighting or generator coils? The core is supposed to be grounded anyway, the coils generate voltage. Unless you replaced or otherwise moved them, they should be OK.

As long as the condensers have clearance from the moving parts, they should be fine.

Look for a stray wire somewhere, even a little stray frayed end on the condenser end touching the body of the condenser. Or a squished wire behind the stator plate?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
yeah my `77 is basically the same thing...i may have found something interesting. I tested resistance between the outside of the condensers and the probe on them and im actually getting a reading of 0 ohms. If my thinking is correct, i should not be getting a measurement whatsoever right? the outside of them shouldnt be able to get a measurement to the wires because they aren`t [supposed to be] toughing right?
 

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I just tried all of that and the only problem i can seem to find is that the condensers should be pushed farther back into the armature plate but i dont know if their position in it really makes a difference.
This makes no difference for spark just it gives you more length on the wires for soldering.

This may be a stupid question but now I just realized that the flywheel slightly rubs the coils on the armature plate. From what I understand it's supposed to have an air gap but pls correct me if I'm wrong lol

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This gap is important so that the magnets don't rub on the ends of the coils but not too much gap to so there is good spark.

Loosen coil screws and reach in with a feeler gauge and set air gap 0.012" to 0.018" at both ends and make sure screws are fully tight.
 

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yeah my `77 is basically the same thing...i may have found something interesting. I tested resistance between the outside of the condensers and the probe on them and im actually getting a reading of 0 ohms. If my thinking is correct, i should not be getting a measurement whatsoever right? the outside of them shouldnt be able to get a measurement to the wires because they aren`t [supposed to be] toughing right?
Not sure how you are testing but you can't measure the condenser without unsoldering the wires from its top.

Once unsoldered there shouldn't be any resistance. If it is then the condenser is shorted and must be replaced.
 

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Having a similar issue and thanks to this forum I've learned some things, I too adjusted the points without disturbing the timing, or so I thought.... decreasing gap retards timing and increasing gap advances timing, my points were barely opening and when I set them to .014" now I am backfiring and no start. Back to timing by moving stator. Good luck with yours!! You are in good hands here and you will learn the ways :)
If you set the points at the mid point of the speced range + set stator plate mid-slot position the timing is close enough that the engine will run.

The timing should really be verified before you do much riding though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Not sure how you are testing but you can't measure the condenser without unsoldering the wires from its top.
Once unsoldered there shouldn't be any resistance. If it is then the condenser is shorted and must be replaced.
Yeah I just realized I made no sense...forget I ever said it haha. I think I'm gonna have to do what you said and adjust the gap between the coils and flywheels. I'm frustrated because it had a good spark on one cylinder before I messed with everything.

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yeah my `77 is basically the same thing...i may have found something interesting. I tested resistance between the outside of the condensers and the probe on them and im actually getting a reading of 0 ohms. If my thinking is correct, i should not be getting a measurement whatsoever right? the outside of them shouldnt be able to get a measurement to the wires because they aren`t [supposed to be] toughing right?
If you set the points at the mid point of the speced range + set stator plate mid-slot position the timing is close enough that the engine will run.

The timing should really be verified before you do much riding though.
OSN - what if you open the points and slide a little piece of plastic in there to insulate, and disconnect the coils? There should be no continuity to ground then, right? it's a little clunky but allows one to isolate the trigger wiring for testing?
 

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Here's what I'm working with

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From your pics the area where the condenser's wire goes around the top may be a problem??

As DadGOFaster said make sure there are no stray strands shorting out to the condenser's side.

100_2268.jpg

I like to "hump" the wire in this area to make sure there is no chance of shorting out.

100_2279.jpg
 

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OSN - what if you open the points and slide a little piece of plastic in there to insulate, and disconnect the coils? There should be no continuity to ground then, right? it's a little clunky but allows one to isolate the trigger wiring for testing?
Actually that may be OK and similar to how you can measure the resistance of the generating coil. This is assuming none of the condensers are shorted out.

I just slipped pieces of cardboard in.

The specs sheet says a 377 generating coil should be between 3.2 to 3.7 ohms so my reading shows this generating coil should be OK.

One thing to remember on measuring low ohms is that "cheapo" multimeters can be inaccurate at low readings like this.

100_2284.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
If you set the points at the mid point of the speced range + set stator plate mid-slot position the timing is close enough that the engine will run.

The timing should really be verified before you do much riding though.
I set the points to .016", the plate to the middle position, and the air gap (as best i could) to .015" and now i get a weak spark on the left cylinder and i get intermediate spark but mostly nothing at all on the right side. oh and i also fixed my poor soldering job on the condensers. how do y'all think i should proceed? i dont know if i should adjust the points again or the plate first. or even mess with the internal coils again?

I also have another problem now. when i go to pull and start the engine (with spark plugs installed), it is very hard to pull now for some reason. even the electric start has an issue trying to get the crack to turn. without the spark plugs installed it turns fine.
 

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I set the points to .016", the plate to the middle position, and the air gap (as best i could) to .015" and now i get a weak spark on the left cylinder and i get intermediate spark but mostly nothing at all on the right side. oh and i also fixed my poor soldering job on the condensers. how do y'all think i should proceed? i dont know if i should adjust the points again or the plate first. or even mess with the internal coils again?
Use a continuity light (you can make one from a flashlight) to see if you have bright light for closed points and dim light for open.

You must have this for both sides.

100_2269.jpg

100_2270.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
When I make one of those lights is it okay if the bulb is led? I can't seem to find any incandescent flash lights

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
okay so i have done the test as you described (found an incandescent flashlight) and the top point makes the light dim but barely. as for the bottom point it does nothing to the brightness of the light. What can this mean? It seems to coincide to the weak spark on the left cylinder and no spark on the right.
 
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