Ski-Doo Snowmobiles Forum banner
1 - 20 of 49 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,487 Posts
The 1330 ACE as configured will not make a high performance replacement for the 1200. Look at the engine specs.

1330 ACE: Bore and Stroke 84 mm x 80 mm

1200 4-Tec: Bore and Stroke 91 mm x 60 mm

So what?? The 20 mm longer stoke will limit max RPM but that may be a good thing since 8000-8500 RPM seems to be the factory limit on spinning primary clutches. The engine will also be at least 1" taller which makes it tougher to fit in snowmobile chassis and keep center of gravity low. The Nytro 3 cylinder has a 66 mm stroke and the Arctic Cat twin has 70 mm stroke.

Smaller bore will limit size of valves.

1330 ACE: Intake Valve dia. 32 mm Exhaust Valve dia. 28.5 mm

1200 4-Tec Intake Valve dia. 37.3 mm Exhaust Valve dia. 31 mm

As configured the ACE would have trouble producing equivalent HP to the existing 1200 4-Tec

The 1330 ACE makes 100 ft-lbs of torque.

The good thing is the 1330 ACE does not have the gearbox built into the crankcase like most motorcycles and is bolted on separate. Maybe the 1330 is destined for one of the UTVs or even SeaDoos.

The 1200 4-Tec in 2007 (yes testing was done in 2007 and SkiDoo released Valcourt dyno runs) prior to production made 100 ft-lbs of torque and around 150 HP. As stated by others, SkiDoo was not looking to have direct competition with the 800 E-Tec which was also in testing.
 

·
Ski-Doo Guru
Joined
·
13,820 Posts
The 1330 ACE as configured will not make a high performance replacement for the 1200. Look at the engine specs.

1330 ACE: Bore and Stroke 84 mm x 80 mm

1200 4-Tec: Bore and Stroke 91 mm x 60 mm

So what?? The 20 mm longer stoke will limit max RPM but that may be a good thing since 8000-8500 RPM seems to be the factory limit on spinning primary clutches. The engine will also be at least 1" taller which makes it tougher to fit in snowmobile chassis and keep center of gravity low. The Nytro 3 cylinder has a 66 mm stroke and the Arctic Cat twin has 70 mm stroke.

Smaller bore will limit size of valves.

1330 ACE: Intake Valve dia. 32 mm Exhaust Valve dia. 28.5 mm

1200 4-Tec Intake Valve dia. 37.3 mm Exhaust Valve dia. 31 mm

As configured the ACE would have trouble producing equivalent HP to the existing 1200 4-Tec

The 1330 ACE makes 100 ft-lbs of torque.

The good thing is the 1330 ACE does not have the gearbox built into the crankcase like most motorcycles and is bolted on separate. Maybe the 1330 is destined for one of the UTVs or even SeaDoos.

The 1200 4-Tec in 2007 (yes testing was done in 2007 and SkiDoo released Valcourt dyno runs) prior to production made 100 ft-lbs of torque and around 150 HP. As stated by others, SkiDoo was not looking to have direct competition with the 800 E-Tec which was also in testing.
I don't buy the 150 hp runs for a second unless it was a drastically different setup than the 1200's that are in production .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,208 Posts
Does the current 1200 really need replacing? Have not ridden it but seems like those that have it are pretty happy with it. Will the new Yamacat outperform it?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
29,433 Posts
I don't buy the 150 hp runs for a second unless it was a drastically different setup than the 1200's that are in production .
Why would you question that? How many guys here are getting 150HP with some simple bolt-ons.

Its well known the 1200 is so over-built they'll last virtually forever in sled duty.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
29,433 Posts
Does the current 1200 really need replacing? Have not ridden it but seems like those that have it are pretty happy with it. Will the new Yamacat outperform it?
The engine is excellent, its just we as consumers want more/new/different.

I would have been happy with an upgrade to the XR plastic this year. The engine isn't what needs attention.
 

·
Ski-Doo Guru
Joined
·
13,820 Posts
Why would you question that? How many guys here are getting 150HP with some simple bolt-ons.

Its well known the 1200 is so over-built they'll last virtually forever in sled duty.
Well aside from dynotech I have never witnessed a 1200 dyno at 150 hp with bolt on modifications. 1050rev also dyno's engines and has done a ton non close to 150 with bolt ons. Cliff Yeatman at advanced dyno same deal. Maybe they make less hp in Canada?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
29,433 Posts
Well aside from dynotech I have never witnessed a 1200 dyno at 150 hp with bolt on modifications. 1050rev also dyno's engines and has done a ton non close to 150 with bolt ons. Cliff Yeatman at advanced dyno same deal. Maybe they make less hp in Canada?
What are you seeing with a header and controller?

Either way, can timing, higher compression, etc shouldn't be too hard to get another 15HP out of it, should it?
 

·
Ski-Doo Guru
Joined
·
13,820 Posts
They dyno no matter how new broke in etc in our neck of the woods, at 130 - 133 hp strongest one never was 133. No header / controller combo is making 20 hp.

Head work and throttle body is worth 10 hp.

What I originally meant was there is no way that doo dynoed a 150 hp 1200 4tec in its current state with just a tune etc either it was a test mule with far different internals and maybe tripple throttle bodies etc or it wasn't true.

I have no motive to start an argument and will bow out, I have no problem admitting if I am wrong. What I find interesting is the fact that dynotech does have some runs posted of an early build 1200 brought in by FPP it was making numbers similar to what we see.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,508 Posts
What I find amazing is if they don't make 150 HP with bolt ons, is how in the he// can they run with and even outrun the 800's and Apex's, both stock and with mods that supposedly make 163 HP? And the 800's are lighter too! Granted, they have wide average powerbands, but to do what it does just makes me laugh.

I don't care what the number is, that is an overachiever.

They will not bring anything out to take away sales from their bread and butter e-tec.
 

·
Ski-Doo Guru
Joined
·
13,820 Posts
What I find amazing is if they don't make 150 HP with bolt ons, is how in the he// can they run with and even outrun the 800's and Apex's, both stock and with mods that supposedly make 163 HP? And the 800's are lighter too! Granted, they have wide average powerbands, but to do what it does just makes me laugh.

I don't care what the number is, that is an overachiever.

They will not bring anything out to take away sales from their bread and butter e-tec.
The bold is my feelings exactly this machine is a jewel regardless of what the mainstream preaches. I feel it sucks for "some" of us that were likely not to see a 150+ hp factory 4 stroke from doo because it will cut into their 2 stroke sales. In reality though how small of a group are we that mod these things? I bet were among 5% or less of 1200 owners.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
18,023 Posts
My question is this.. they never let anyone take advantage of sales yet the new viper is going to be on snow. If the current 1200 didn't already get people on it by now the viper might take some. Plus people who are on the 1200 now might be sick of waiting if doo doesn't change it and go to the viper.
Now IMO the viper will be crap but that doesn't mean doo won't lose 1200 sales to it or loyal doo people in general.

The 900ace as it is now is not anywhere near the 1200 from the riding I've done on both. So doo ain't keeping 1200 riders by only having the 900ace. Especially ones that already want more 4stroke power.

Doesn't seem like doo to just leave the 130hp 4stroke market after being in it for so long. And doesn't seem like doo to just let other makers take their sales away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,487 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
A7M

I agree with you as I don't think it was in current tune. The exhaust cam timing is very suspect and seems to be far different than any high performance multi-valve 4 stroke that I have worked with in the last few years. The focus looks to have been on emission numbers rather than performance and the issue with cutting into 800 E-Tec sales. SkiDoo did not need 2 150 HP class engines for their sled lineup. The original dyno runs in 2007 (2 years prior to production) of the prototypes made 100 ft-lbs of torque which is roughly 10 more than the current 1200 tune. I think they may have had a retimed exhaust cam, slightly higher compression, less restrictive exhaust and maybe a different intake. The rest is now history as the current version has not changed much since introduction. Some of the early prototypes I drove the prior year to production had different exhaust systems and I wish I had taken more pics back in February 2008. Look at the date of these builds.
 

Attachments

·
Ski-Doo Guru
Joined
·
13,820 Posts
I wish you had more pictures too! Would have been nice for some of us to compare to them forsure. Your likely right there was a fairly substantial hardware change to accommodate emissions, perhaps fuel economy and to not drill their 800's lol. Like you say do they need two 150 hp class engines well IMO I don't see why not, I bet 2 strokes out sell 4 strokes 2:1 just based on the stereotypical hill billy sledder that hates everything 4 stroke.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
Also don't forget 2 strokes are not as reliable as the 1200 so why would they push the 1200 on the showroom floor when they know they have a better chance of having the buyer trading their 2 stroke 600 or 800 after a season or two. Also the 2 strokes keep dealership shops busy ect...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,487 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
A7M

I forgot they also had different maps in the early test sleds as they seemed to be very interested in engine braking at the time. That may also explain the weird exhaust timing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
650 Posts
I don't think it would be hard to get 150 out of the 1200 right now, at the factory. I think with 3 individual throttle bodies, a small cam timing change and a factory header, this engine would be close, if not, over. It's interesting that even today, they stay with a single throttle body set up on all the sled 4 strokes.
 
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
Top