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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I bought a 05 550 fan GSX last Dec.2005 for my son to ride after we got rid of his troublesome 440 cat. I had it winterized by the dealer at the end of the season and I started it up in the off season about every 2 months. We never run it fast or hard. Most all our riding is on the trails and rarely do we get over 50mph and then for a short time only. WELL, yesterday we hit an old railroad grade and I opened it up to about 55 for two miles and suddenly it boged down and quit. It restarted on the second try and we went on. On the return trip 90 miles later it did it to my son. I jumped on it after it restated and 1 mile later it locked up solid. I have only used skidoo oil and everything is stock except studs and skis. My son later told me that it was starting harder than usual and it had a flat spot just at takeoff (burbled a little) that was not there last year.
Mechanic called and said the plugs were covered with aluminium and the motor is shot.
He then said if it is a carb problem that skidoo may not cover the repair since IAM supposed to maintain the carbs. What the heck more am I supposed to do? Tear them down each year? The dealer winterized it for me for pete sake.
 

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NEMICH said:
He then said if it is a carb problem that skidoo may not cover the repair since IAM supposed to maintain the carbs. What the heck more am I supposed to do? Tear them down each year?
[snapback]705420[/snapback]​
If your not qualified to clean carbs, then bring them to your dealer.

But it's still YOUR responsibility.

Once year carb cleaning is a good idea.
 

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Same thing happened to me. About a month out of warranty. I was lucky -- the dealer fixed it free.

The 550F might be the best Rotax engine. But it still burns down.

By the way, no one could ever figure out the cause. Carbs apparently were fine. Oiling checked out o.k. as well. Bad gas?

In any case, I've had 1300 trouble free kilometers since the rebuild.
 

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dooit59180 said:
NEMICH said:
He then said if it is a carb problem that skidoo may not cover the repair since IAM supposed to maintain the carbs. What the heck more am I supposed to do? Tear them down each year?
[snapback]705420[/snapback]​
If your not qualified to clean carbs, then bring them to your dealer.

But it's still YOUR responsibility.

Once year carb cleaning is a good idea.
[snapback]705432[/snapback]​
I am now authorized by dooit59180 to issue carb cleaning licenses if you are interested sir. So please send me $49.99 and I will send you your handly wallet side card to carry with you everywhere you go.


I would not be happy with my dealer if he told me something idiotic like that. I would recommend asking to talk to the owner of that dealer and ask him what he is going to do to help out a potential future customer getting his brand new snowmobile back on the snow again. If your son is young, take him with you and tell him to get the tears going HAHA! Your dealer should have instructed you on how to store the sled for the off season, and what to do when you were ready to ride it again. Plain and simple!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
dooit59180 said:
NEMICH said:
He then said if it is a carb problem that skidoo may not cover the repair since IAM supposed to maintain the carbs. What the heck more am I supposed to do? Tear them down each year?
[snapback]705420[/snapback]​
If your not qualified to clean carbs, then bring them to your dealer.

But it's still YOUR responsibility.

Once year carb cleaning is a good idea.
[snapback]705432[/snapback]​
It may be a good idea but where in the warrenty does it say that or even recommed it. Shouldn't skidoo or the dealer at least recommend that it be done yearly. I have had many carbed sleds over the years and I have NEVER had a failure. Most of the sleds I have had my mechanic tear down and clean the carbs every couple of years.
I have had two Polarises, a cat, and a skidoo grand touring over the last 5 years and the Polarises(two of them) are trouble free, the cat was a lemon, and the grand touring has been in the shop 4 times in two years for maintainence
.
I hope skidoo covers this or else I will be looking at a Yamaha from now on.
 

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NEMICH said:
dooit59180 said:
NEMICH said:
He then said if it is a carb problem that skidoo may not cover the repair since IAM supposed to maintain the carbs. What the heck more am I supposed to do? Tear them down each year?
[snapback]705420[/snapback]​
If your not qualified to clean carbs, then bring them to your dealer.

But it's still YOUR responsibility.

Once year carb cleaning is a good idea.
[snapback]705432[/snapback]​
It may be a good idea but where in the warrenty does it say that or even recommed it.
[snapback]705480[/snapback]​
I beg to differ.

If you have a 2005 owners manual handy, see pg. 269. Read "6. Exclusions" and see the maintenance chart on pg. 205.

For those with an 2006 manual that want to follow along, see pg. 218 and 171.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Since the manual is in the shop with the machine I can't verify what it says, but even if it does skidoo better still cover this. I have ridden carbed. sleds all my life(I'm 46) and NEVER had a machine do this. I make enough money to pay for my repairs, that is not the issue. Quality is the issue. Stand behind your product or your customers will look elsewhere!
 

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NEMICH said:
I had it winterized by the dealer at the end of the season and I started it up in the off season about every 2 months.
[snapback]705420[/snapback]​
Does this not seem odd to anyone. Why would you start it up every couple months in the offseason when the dealer winterized it for you( I am pretty sure you mean to say summerize). He would have fogged the engine ( which includes the carbs) and cleaned it up.

You should not touch it again until ready to ride in the winter
 

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Keep in mind the BRP recommended procedure for "summerizing" does not include carb cleaning.

That is included in the "pre-season check".
 

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I would not have thought to clean the carbs either and I bought my son an 05 mxz 550f. However, rather than take chance is the recommendation to "summerize" the sled and have the carbs cleaned right before the next riding season or have them cleaned as part of the long term storage maintenance? Sounds like a silly question but seems to me I never had to clean carbs before on older sleds unless they were gunked up.
 

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ct_skidoo said:
I would not have thought to clean the carbs either and I bought my son an 05 mxz 550f. However, rather than take chance is the recommendation to "summerize" the sled and have the carbs cleaned right before the next riding season or have them cleaned as part of the long term storage maintenance? Sounds like a silly question but seems to me I never had to clean carbs before on older sleds unless they were gunked up.
[snapback]705754[/snapback]​
IMO, it is more efficient to clean the carbs in the spring just in case anything is broken it can be fixed in ample time before the riding season.

It is important to clean the carbs to get any bad gas build up out, and to make sure that any gas in the carbs sitting during storage doesn't go bad and build up.

Cleaning carbs are very important; every year someone burns down a sled because of it.

As stated in the original post, your son had poor performance/hard starting, which I beleive is a fuel delivery problem. (it better not be RINGS)
 

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sledfreak17 said:
View attachment 46952 I think you may have had a cold engine seizure. This happens often when riding on trails for extended periods of time without extreme load on the engine, and then increasing the load on the engine during sudden high speed riding (eg. suddenly trail merges to a lake or a railroad and you get on it hard.) Anyways this propbably happened because the piston was heating upp alot faster than the block casuing the piston bore to become even widser than the block broe which would cause an engine seizure. It may not seize completley but it will defenitley be very hard to pull over. The metal shavings on the spark plugs were probally from the piston(which is now increased in diameter becasue of the rapid heating) scraping metal shavings from the cylinder wall. Like you said the engine bogged down for a few minutes and then once it cooled down a for a while (the piston cooled down enough so that it could move freely in the cylinder) you could start it up and drive it away again. The only problem now is that you have an off idle flatspot. This is caused by the decreased compression in the cylinders because of the previous seizure scraping metal shavings off the cylinder wall. There is no easy way to fix this and I am sorry to say that your 550 fan will never make as much horsepower as it did before the seizure. The only way to fix the problem is to replace the cylinder sleves, replace the engine block and pistons, or worst case senario live with the decreased compression and decreased levels of power. Sorry about the bad news but I've seen it happen many times before!

[snapback]705536[/snapback]​
You sir, are a moron and should learn to spell! Your information is worse than useless.
 

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Kuzitrin said:
sledfreak17 said:
View attachment 46952 I think you may have had a cold engine seizure. This happens often when riding on trails for extended periods of time without extreme load on the engine, and then increasing the load on the engine during sudden high speed riding (eg. suddenly trail merges to a lake or a railroad and you get on it hard.) Anyways this propbably happened because the piston was heating upp alot faster than the block casuing the piston bore to become even widser than the block broe which would cause an engine seizure. It may not seize completley but it will defenitley be very hard to pull over. The metal shavings on the spark plugs were probally from the piston(which is now increased in diameter becasue of the rapid heating) scraping metal shavings from the cylinder wall. Like you said the engine bogged down for a few minutes and then once it cooled down a for a while (the piston cooled down enough so that it could move freely in the cylinder) you could start it up and drive it away again. The only problem now is that you have an off idle flatspot. This is caused by the decreased compression in the cylinders because of the previous seizure scraping metal shavings off the cylinder wall. There is no easy way to fix this and I am sorry to say that your 550 fan will never make as much horsepower as it did before the seizure. The only way to fix the problem is to replace the cylinder sleves, replace the engine block and pistons, or worst case senario live with the decreased compression and decreased levels of power. Sorry about the bad news but I've seen it happen many times before!

[snapback]705536[/snapback]​
You sir, are a moron and should learn to spell! Your information is worse than useless.
[snapback]705795[/snapback]​


...worse than useless. lmao!
 

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I'm not Kreskin, But your damage does sound like cold startup seizure. This can happen gradually.Warmup is critical. All things aside, I'm sure you will need a top end rebiuld. You may just clean up the cyls., and put in new pistons and rings, or in the worst case, bore it too. The aluminum you find can only come from the pistons. the cyls. on the fanners are not nickisyl, so they can be bored.(cheaper than new jugs). Skidoo has oversized pistons in .10 and .20.over .Cost is 127 bucks apiece, but they come with the rings, at least mine did. Is your fan belt broke?
 

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The main jets and pilot jets should be checked before we start riding
every winter to make sure they are not plugged with any crud that
has taken a liking to growing in the fuel bowl. These problems have seemed to increase since the advent of ethanol being added to the fuel. The other thing
that will take down a motor is stale fuel. Over time all the light ends evaporate and the heavier stuff remains and won't readily vaporize. So even if you have the correct amount of fuel going through the jets the motor sees a lean mixture because instead
of vaporized fuel that readily mixes with oxygen you have big blobs of fuel that won't
vaporize and mix with the oxygen making it go lean and burn down, detonate, etc.
The 550 takes a good 1 to 2 miles at 30 mph to warm up. I won't get on mine until I have at least 200 degrees head temp. The exhaust temp comes up right away. Also the colder it is out the longer it takes to warm up the engine with these fans. Letting it sit and idle won't warm them up either, they need a little load and no full or even 3/4 throttle.

Good Luck
 

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Was looking through my old "Dyno Tech" issues for info and dyno #'s for
a Phazer pipe I just sold and came across this info that I think really explains
a lot about some of these engines going down.

(Volume 6 Number 3 Page 7:
"Stale pump or race gasoline delivered by standard Mikuni carbs doesn't have a prayer of being totally vaporized by the time it reaches the combustion chambers.
Standard Mikuni carbs are dependent upon the "light ends" of the gasoline to initiate the vaporization process. When light ends are diminished by "staleness" , high engine component temps are necessary to assure even partial vaporization.

In the old days , we used to mysteriously detonate and seize engines on the dyno when our "light ends" disappeared (with some race gasoline), the light ends were gone within a few days after opening the sealed containers ). Safe A/F ratios, BSFC, and EGT's belied the fact that stale fuel was blowing through our engines in
unburnable , lava lamp-like globs that only cooled off our EGT probes.

THIS IS THE LITTLE PARAGRAPH I FORGOT!!!

"Cold seizures" are absolutely caused by cold gasoline failing to vaporize!!! Cold engines being fed nice 12/1 A/F ratios actually see maybe 20/1 A/F ratios if you count only the burnable (vaporized) fuel. It's these lean A/F ratios that cause the detonation and / or overheated pistons.)

That last little paragraph explains a lot. So maybe you have a consumer that
doesn't dot all the i's and cross all the t's. Doesn't check his jets, doesn't drain the old stale fuel or inadverantaly buys some stale fuel, and whacks the throttle on a cold engine. Just a little green slime in the pilots or main jets reduces the fuel flow
easily 5% and the stale fuel is running lean and the cylinders are cold and the pistons are really hot, so hot they end up being bigger than the bore, shazam four corner cold seize or detonation or whichever comes first.

A lot of these guys I suspect may be the ones that don't work on their sleds or hate to work on them or are lazy or try to get a buddy to do it for them (I love my caller ID) or take it to a dealer who sometimes don't have a clue either or they just don't have the knack!!

Every fall the gas left in my sleds goes into one of the vehicles with a nearly full tank to dilute the bad stuff. Even with stable its bad!!!

Good Luck

Lightning R&D - 17 Years of Computer Aided Porting - Dealer for SlyDog Skis - Fox Floats - Aaen Pipes - FabCraft - etc.
 

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NEMICH said:
IAM supposed to maintain the carbs. What the heck more am I supposed to do? Tear them down each year? The dealer winterized it for me for pete sake.
[snapback]705420[/snapback]​
YES! Every year, at the beginning of the season, YES! It's normal maintenance. As for riding X numbers of years and never having a problem, well, you're lucky and gas quality today isn't as good as it once was. As my nephew said the other day after his suspension bolts fell out when asked about using loc-tite he said "No, I didn't use it - I've never had a problem before". See, you're supposed to do it BEFORE it's a problem. You're also supposed to run isopropyl in every tank too. Do you do that?

Either way, a decent dealer would take care of even if it was a bit of dirt. But in the future, I'd suggest not starting a summerized sled and doing at least a pre-season carb cleaning. Good luck.
 
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