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MCB Performance

Member Since 13 Jan 2008
Offline Last Active Mar 05 2021 10:31 AM

#23729687 Reason for engine failure

Posted by MCB Performance on 12 February 2021 - 08:30 AM

Are those pistons from the same engine !? They are VERY different designs (other than both being forgings).


The top is an Italian forging (78-26) and the bottom is also but using the Lt wt die (2115). 


WIll need more pics to help here but as one poster has already pointed out...very dry.


- Scott @ MCB

#23725443 Which brand of piston would you use in a 2006 Renegade 800

Posted by MCB Performance on 10 February 2021 - 09:40 AM

Thanks for the order (Brian?).


1 - As you can imagine, our logistics mgr. has his hands full this time of year but has still managed to keep us under 48 hrs shipping window all year! Not to mention his incredibly high standard for packaging. Your order should leave very soon.


2 - As far as break-in well... like everything else in the world it simple but complicated! I glanced at the vid Charles posted and although he outlines the need for caution his assumptions with regard to RPK and Ra are a bit too generalized for my tastes. 2-stroke hone finish is critical and ours is proprietary. For instance Plateau means nothing if your "valley" angles are broad enough to not hold oil, or what about the fact that most 2-stroke rings are chrome faced. There is very little break in wear going on with regards to those chrome ring faces, BUT you better believe if the wrong finish is on Nicasil they will NOT play well together!  Sunnen 732 (n-series) was something developed back in the day to help a chrome coarse finish accept better Ra. If your bores arent STRAIGHT AND ROUND none of this coversation matters! Lastly if you want the BEST seal then a precision lapped ring with M3 facing is the king and will seal better than ANY other but then you would need to fixture a torque plate for the cylinders.... See all those silly holes in those cylinders? Guess what happens when you bolt them all together! Guess who's cylinders stay round longer......CASE REED. There is SO much more here to discuss its really out of the range of anything but a full blown 2 day class and thats just on ring seal. 


3 - No one is talking about breaking in a crankshaft and ITS needs. THATS what needs the additional oil folks. People that slather pistons during assembly are just kidding themselves.


4 - To make it simple the testing has been done and regardless of the Industry the consensus and data all points to the same break in procedure: increasing load over increasing time (this assumes all the other parameters are controlled by the way)


5 - Daag - Thanks for the shout out, I spend a large portion of every day helping folks and when their ears are open and their capabilities match, they are usually very successful.


- Scott @ MCB

#23723561 Which brand of piston would you use in a 2006 Renegade 800

Posted by MCB Performance on 09 February 2021 - 02:26 PM

Honestly? I don't recommend using any crankshaft that has been exposed to coolant as it is a fairly rapid reaction and generally due to its surfactant nature once its in there, its in there. Same goes for catastrophic top end failure, its not uncommon for that debris to migrate into the rods and mains and not be seen with the naked eye. 


I had one customer that had a major coolant leak tell me he was "back in" with no tow and it was eating so much coolant he didn't think he was going to make it back to the cottage. He made it, said temps didnt really spike too badly, disassembled the engine that evening and observed ALL the bearings were all destroyed and had a "bound" feel to them all. I asked if there was any prior coolant usage and he said unequivocally no.  This was a 2000ish mile original owner 800 Etec. Is it the same as simply splashing some downstairs vs running it? Maybe not, but why do you think ALL the mfr's caution you to drain AND evacuate the cylinders when performing a top-end service....


That being said, lets say you have a known good crank assembly with very low miles etc etc, In that case if cost is an issue and you want to try and reuse a potentially contaminated crankshaft remove it from the cases and CAREFULLY flush the non-sealed bearings with a very light weight oil (ie - WD40) or petroleum based solvent. You will likely never get out all that is embedded and the additional danger is flushing it into the inner seal areas, but it may give you some piece of mind.


Lastly remember to NEVER use compressed air on roller bearings.


- Scott @ MCB 

#23720133 Which brand of piston would you use in a 2006 Renegade 800

Posted by MCB Performance on 08 February 2021 - 09:06 AM

Please try to limit any roller bearings exposure to any type of glycol (Ethylene or Propylene). It is highly corrosive in that situation and can quickly lead to bearing failure. Further the silica content can spall the bearings when operating temps are reached. 


Oh and by the MCB has lots of piston and crankshaft choices and I hear they are pretty decent guys..... ;)


- Scott @ that place

#23535961 Cylinder cores needed.

Posted by MCB Performance on 30 October 2020 - 12:06 PM

Help us Help YOU.  Every year we get back a low percentage of cores we send out and it is becoming a real problem for our customers.


MCB is in need of most all GOOD cores for the Ski-Doo engines and happy to pay for them.


Monoblocks 623240 / 242 /246 / 249 / 041 / 046 etc. (see last three digits)


Singles 623262, 852', 436, 483, 480 etc.


Look under your benches, in the sheds, and on the shelves folks.... and CALL US . We'll make it easy and email you a ship label !


thanks folks - MCB Performance







#23506019 Amsoil warranty

Posted by MCB Performance on 06 October 2020 - 11:58 AM

Quote :    "Literally millions"? Where did you get those numbers from?


When you work in the business you have resources sir.


But to be honest its common knowledge what BRP spent on this venture, the information is there if you look (although even that number is only for the initial devo.)


Now for the sake of discussion, how much do you think engine Validation testing alone costs? Now multiply that times each platform that will be spec'd!  I can tell you in no uncertain terms its staggering and in the OEM auto biz, "millions" won't even open the dyno room doors.


hope this helps - Scott

#23504677 Amsoil warranty

Posted by MCB Performance on 05 October 2020 - 10:12 AM

"What are your thoughts about oils that start with the letter K or X ?"


"K"lotz first, a company that has been doing 2 stroke oils for so long I believe the earth was still cooling when they bottled the first Techniplate. Overall a solid company and we could often tell by the pistons who was using it. They (pistons) typically looked great and the skirts were VERY slippery. The product must have a high temp surfactant Im guessing. Good stuff and I personally used their castor in my H2 drag bike at "excessive" rpm levels with outstanding results.


"X"PS  see note #4 above. Literally millions spent on the development of this. Note that this was SPECIFICALLY designed for the Etecs and again the data and real world results have proven it to be an excellent choice.  


 -  Scott

#23501153 Amsoil warranty

Posted by MCB Performance on 02 October 2020 - 11:55 AM

Friday seems to be my favorite to kick bees nests....and most know I'm not a big fan of oils that start with the letter "A" but for the sake of an impartial discussion:


1 - Nothing overtly wrong with this type of advertising (warranty that is) but anytime a mfr. feels the need to do this my Spidey sense tingles a bit.


2 - A good portion of engine failures are not attributable to the oil being used (unless spec'd incorrectly).


3 - Perhaps one of the sharpest gentlemen I've had the pleasure of working with years ago was a Petro chemist and our conversations were always enlightening, one of the absolute KEYS is base stock quality. After that the chem pack simply tailors things like flash rates, adhesion properties, etc to the environment its being used in. You want piston protection?.....Bean! (but it doesnt adapt in cold apps)


4 - Lube Tech is NO joke. Highly respected / qualified and why Rotax went to them with some very high expectations.


5 - The new generation of PAO's are showing incredible gains in film strength.....but just like I said years ago..I can build a Doo crank that will outlast the machine x10 but who would pay for it?


6 - You'll all be riding Electric sleds before the oil debates ever stop....


- Scott @ MCB

#23498739 Got Tools?

Posted by MCB Performance on 30 September 2020 - 01:02 PM

It was brought to our attention that folks here were having some difficulty finding a DooTalk sponsor that offers clutch tools.


Look no further, thanks to our resident clutch expert we stock LOTS of tools and below is some of our most popular and some that we make exclusively (like our Jackshaft tool). Check em out and feel free to browse the others on the site!


MCB Exclusive Jackshaft tool:




TRA Puller kit




P-Drive Kit





#23497601 Engine Blown

Posted by MCB Performance on 29 September 2020 - 12:06 PM

Classic Detonation...the question becomes why.  Why did the temps spike? What is coolant driven or egt's?  Or both? Note the coking on the underside of BOTH pistons, the Etec's run relatively high chamber temps and this isn't uncommon but that is excessive. Can we see a photo of the pin bores? 


- Scott @ MCB

#23483431 Adding another liter of displacement

Posted by MCB Performance on 15 September 2020 - 12:54 PM

You can tell that wasn't a ditch-banger.


Very nice Mike, but I don't like Odd-Numbers so Ill keep an eye out for you.  ;)


- Scott @ MCB

#23478495 Its coming.....

Posted by MCB Performance on 10 September 2020 - 10:45 AM

Dootalk gets first notification, just because the level of Humor here has been exemplary - Scott @ MCB


The Great MCB Golden Ticket Promotion
In a time when our country is facing difficult challenges, raw materials increase weekly, manufacturing costs are skyrocketing, and taxes are ever growing.....MCB has decided we wanted to give back to our customers in a way that clearly says:  Thank You 
Starting November 1, 2020 through March 1, 2021 MCB Performance will be delivering via Overnight UPS Letter, GOLDEN Tickets to our customers. These lucky customers will be selected on the closing day of each month via randomized program that will select paid invoices from the previous months completed sales orders. Qualifying orders are either placed on our Website or via Phone. 
These Golden Tickets will then be sent overnight, as mentioned, to the customers address. The Golden Tickets are serialized and once received the customer should contact us to validate this serial number and confirm receipt. Once verified the Lucky customers will be credited IN FULL for his previous purchase. Thats right, completely FREE parts. No gimmicks, No additional purchase required, no percentage off, just MCB saying Thank You.
There will be NO dollar amount limit! that's right if the purchase was thousands of dollars....its completely FREE, shipping will be included, but core fees obviously will not be. We will even refund the sales tax if you were charged such. Service and labor are NOT eligible. Ebay orders are NOT eligible. You can increase your odds by splitting up your order but this clearly will dilute the potential total amount given back. You can order every month as again it will be completely random. 
What we at MCB would much appreciate, is that The Golden Ticket customers take a moment to spread the word and take a photo of the Golden Ticket and post on any or all social Media, Forums, Instagram, Facebook, etc. This not only lets other customers enjoy the surprise but obviously verifies your lucky experience. If the Golden Ticket customer isn't using such media we are happy to help by posting for them but is not a necessary task to qualify.
Thanks Again and Good luck! 
 MCB Performance

#23472583 Its coming.....

Posted by MCB Performance on 03 September 2020 - 07:09 AM

Certainly i'll announce the details....but not today. I must say a few of the responses are downright entertaining though. :righton







(there's a big hint on our Facebook page)

  • krm likes this

#23471987 Its coming.....

Posted by MCB Performance on 02 September 2020 - 10:55 AM

they are in my hands right now....lets just say some exceptionally lucky customers are going to be VERY happy and some ECSTATIC !!  ;)





#23468099 How many miles between rebuilds on an 850?

Posted by MCB Performance on 28 August 2020 - 09:10 AM

The 850's are unquestionably a step forward with regard to crankshaft technology (welcome to 1997 BRP- lol). But, and I think that's what we are all alluding to here,  is the price paid for this technology going to bear fruit with regards to life expectancy? Its been 3 years now and the consensus among us in the profession is "maybe".


  The initial oiling issues had me well placed on the skeptical side of the fence but once BRP adopted the "field expedient" measures it seems the engine has responded well enough. Personally I think that doesnt excuse the fact that I had LOTS of calls a year or more ago when MANY were going down that there were ZERO engines to be had for six -7 months in the BRP distribution. One LARGE dealer I spoke with was as his wits end with 5 new 850's down in his shop at one time. 


 Rotax was smart enough to not throw out the baby with the bath water in keeping much of the reciprocating and Etec designs intact knowing this was a bold direction.


 In recent years Skidoo and (BRP corporate) have clearly been moving in the direction of limiting availability to the consumer and that's not necessarily a bad thing when it comes to engine components. They want to protect the Dealers and ensure the repair dollars are spent with them vs. the aftermarket. They also know clearly that many dont have the required tooling and or skills necessary to properly repair these components. The flip side of that coin is the customer is left with no alternative to a very expensive technology. 


 I will continue to say that if Snowmobilers as a group are willing to pay the current prices for new hyper-sleds and the infancy technologies that are foisted upon them then they cannot blame the manufacturers for giving them what they want. If miles traveled were the primary benchmark given cost outlay a modern hyper-sled must certainly not be your first choice right? 


my 2 cents and change - Scott @ MCB