Silencing the Can - Page 2 - Sledding - General Discussion - DOOTalk Forums

Jump to content

 






Photo

Silencing the Can


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
97 replies to this topic

#16 Havgade

Havgade

    Show me the snow!!

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 994 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sled:17 gade Enduro 800

Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:31 AM

Your going to want to find a stock muffler for the year and engine model of your sled.  Back about 7-8 years ago I priced a new muffler for a 05, mxz 500ss.   It was around $600.00 new.

 

You really want to find the right one due to the pipe setup for that particular year and engine model

 

I would for sure be looking for a used, but they are a tough find.  If you do a search, you will find there are a couple of aftermarket companies who make mufflers / cans that are not obnoxious at all.  They seriously do exsist, and some even have dyno numbers to back up gains/loss.

 

With luck you find a correct make and model year used one, maybe even someone here can steer ya in the right direction for one, that would be really cool.

 

Otherwise there are a number of aftermarket choice that do exsist that are nowhere near as loud as that MBRP you have, they are obnixious!!



#17 groo

groo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 6393 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:da UP
  • Sled:2015 Expedion SE 1200

Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:58 AM

I'd like to make my 1200 quieter. I think about the best way to do it would be to add a turbo. 



#18 319skidoo

319skidoo

    Troll Patrol ®

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 15529 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:NE Iowa
  • Interests:1. Doing things
    2. Not doing things
    3. Thinking about doing things
    4. Not thinking about doing things
  • Sled:04 MXZ 600ho-RIP

Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:59 AM

Middle of the page. Off eBay e2015dfa8295d96a03f7a79caf0d10ee.jpg

4296.gif
 

Skioutty: Brutus I love the plow set up on the 550 fanner. ((Clickity click for pic)

brutus: Pretty sweet mod, eh? I use that to stay in the lead by clearing the snow off the trail so the liquid coolers behind me overheat.  ;)  :P

 

 


#19 Bhayes49

Bhayes49

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 8 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:New York
  • Interests:INK, ROCK, MOTO
  • Sled:2009 600 RS

Posted 11 January 2015 - 10:05 AM

Keep it stock so I can keep my trails!!


I Smoke Tires And Tracks NOT Drugs Bro!

 


#20 LRD

LRD

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3298 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Princeton, MN
  • Interests:Extreme Mountain Snowmobiling
    Dirt Biking
    Bowfishing for Carp
    Target Shooting
    Forex Trading
  • Sled:TNT 636 Mod 360 lb - 15 X 141 X 2.25

Posted 11 January 2015 - 11:21 AM

That was a helpful read. We have an 800R in a REV chassis that is showing a significant increase in power with an MBRP can over a stock REV 800 muffler, according to the owner. This is not making me happy at all, since it is way too loud and next door. Now that I know how to measure the pipe pressure I just need a little better details on how to setup my mechanical vacuum/pressure gauge to compare between the two. Do you happen to have any pictures of your setup?

I tried using a mechanical pressure gauge that was a bout 0 to 15 psi that was intended for automotive use to measure pressure to diagnosis a plugged catalytic converter.  Impossible to read and no consistency of readings.  About 3 or 4 years ago a guy from Alaska having trouble sorting out his 800 big bore fund a digital gauge that worked like magic.  With a warmed up engine and pipe turn on the gauge and hit reset to zero, make max rpm run and when your done  hit the buttons and it gives minimum and max reading and the numbers are repeatable run after run.  Some things that raise that pressure, smaller stinger, higher rpm, hotter pipe egt 

 

That pressure number is something I've been chasing since about 1992 when I put a 617 rotax in a yami Phazer and used my 2-stroke design software to make a pipe and a silencer.  Had no way of measuring the pressure or what a ball park number should be.  But I did put a adjustable butterfly valve in the end of the stinger that partially blocked the flow when closed.  But was reall afraid of burning the engine

down because to much pushes heat back into piston dome. 



#21 Daag44

Daag44

    Advanced Member

  • DOOCrew
  • 27237 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:South Shore, Quebec
  • Interests:1973 Olympic
  • Sled:2007 1000 SDI

Posted 11 January 2015 - 12:44 PM

I tried using a mechanical pressure gauge that was a bout 0 to 15 psi that was intended for automotive use to measure pressure to diagnosis a plugged catalytic converter.  Impossible to read and no consistency of readings.  About 3 or 4 years ago a guy from Alaska having trouble sorting out his 800 big bore fund a digital gauge that worked like magic.  With a warmed up engine and pipe turn on the gauge and hit reset to zero, make max rpm run and when your done  hit the buttons and it gives minimum and max reading and the numbers are repeatable run after run.  Some things that raise that pressure, smaller stinger, higher rpm, hotter pipe egt 

 

That pressure number is something I've been chasing since about 1992 when I put a 617 rotax in a yami Phazer and used my 2-stroke design software to make a pipe and a silencer.  Had no way of measuring the pressure or what a ball park number should be.  But I did put a adjustable butterfly valve in the end of the stinger that partially blocked the flow when closed.  But was reall afraid of burning the engine

down because to much pushes heat back into piston dome. 

 

In that case I won't bother with a mechanical gauge. I noticed you had made a few references to heat build-up on the pistons with much too much pressure, and high EGTs with not enough pressure. I found this very interesting and was hoping that you could expand on this. This could help explain why a dyno service you know had noticed some very high EGT readings on one of his sleds without failure, and I mean temperatures I could not post as they would not be believable.


Air/Fuel Ratio for two and four strokes
Air/Fuel Ratio for 1200 with boost
Air/Fuel Ratio is measured through emissions
Wideband and EGT
Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
600 SDI MY2004 Lean/Hot spot running 6900-7000 rpm @ 40-45% Throttle Opening
800R Cranking Compression
800R Oil Injection / Premix combo
800R P-TEK Electrical Troubleshooting #1 and #2 
800R Turbo
850 Center Oil line for coolant pump melted
850 Main Oil line caught fire #1 and #2
900 ACE Turbo - muffler turning red hot
1200 4-TEC Mapping
1200 4-TEC MY 2009 to 2011 Fuel Line issues that could cause a fire
Batteries
Belt Blowers: Overview of UPMICHIGANDER's and Ronn's experience
BUDS 3.3.0 won't connect to SDI
BUDS not connecting to HO or SDI - Try a CanDoo
CVT efficiency - BlueMax
Deep snow intake for XP chassis
Electrical - Diagnoses of a failed ECM
Electrical - 30A Battery Charging Fuse Socket Diagnoses and Relay
Electrical - Relay Coil Wine
Electrical - Relay Testing
Electrical - Battery Charging Relay Diagnostic 
Electrical - Troubleshooting with BRP video 
Electrical - Solder vs Crimp
Electrical - Diagram for Fanners on page 3
Engine Break-In 
Engine Weight 
E-TEC 600HO Clutching
E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Electric Start troubleshooting
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC eRAVE position code recurring
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
E-TEC Capacitor Charge Hold Test and Residual Voltage Test
E-TEC Voltage Rectifier Regulator troubleshooting
E-TEC Power Fades are not normal and can be fixed
Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
Bad Gas for a Two Stroke - Is it a Myth ?
GNR CVT Alignment for the G4
Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
G4 Clutch Alignment, Engine Movement, Sheave Runout and Clutching
G4 850 Throttle Jerkiness solved with clutching
G4 850 Snappy throttle/clutch engagement
G4 850 pDrive tech - A question of Engineering
G4 Steering
G4 850 Tuned Pipe @ 12.6 lbs and Muffler @ 15.4 lbs vs 800R and 800RE muffler weight
Longevity - 800R E-TEC 
Mikuni o-ring for carb float assembly - Arctic Cat part# 6505-875 or from Amazon and eBay
Muffler Red Hot
Off-trail riding for flatlanders
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pictures - How to post with the correct orientation
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Power Loss - How to diagnose in the field
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
Power Curves: 600 HOE (E-TEC)
Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
Quebec/NY State border crossing
REV Gen1 Gauge Display stuck on "SCALE"
REV Gen1 Volt and Temp Gauge install
REV Gen1 electrical connectors for sensors and MPEM (Multi Purpose Engine Module)
Seafoam for E-TEC injectors
Shortblock or Rebuild?
Ski-Doo Snowmobile Tech Training
Spark Plugs cracked
Squish - The limit
Squish - A discussion on head design
Stator and Relay Diagnostic 
Stator testing for E-TEC using a T harness/Bridge
Stator testing for 1200 4-TEC
Stator Removal on page 3
Stator replacement for a 1200 4-TEC
Suspension Adjustment
Triples - Coolant Pump Assembly
Y-Pipe bolts loosening fix

#22 YooperWoods

YooperWoods

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 778 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Marquette, MI
  • Interests:dirt and snow
  • Sled:04 MXZ-X 600 HO 151", 91 Phazer 144"

Posted 11 January 2015 - 01:56 PM

Interested to see the outcome of this experiment Freestylin, please keep us updated.  Subbed.


phazerskidoo_zpsde8b2a7a.jpg


#23 Freestylin'

Freestylin'

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1652 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gilmanton, NH
  • Interests:Snowmobiling, snowboarding, motorcycles, cars, trucks, sports...Anything with an engine, definitely.
  • Sled:2006 Ski Doo MXZ 500ss

Posted 11 January 2015 - 03:24 PM

Yeah, I'm on baby duty today so I'm not getting anything done right now. I can guarantee it'll be quieter, probably close to stock levels if not on par with them, just not sure about how it will affect the power.

 

I know I can get a stock muffler but I'd rather not add 10lbs back on to the sled so I'm trying to figure a way around it. That way we're all happy.


2006 Ski-Doo MXZ 500ss...136" swap, narrowed stock a-arms, pilot 6.9 skis, and a whole lot more...Mod sled build in progress!

1988 Polaris Sprint 340...Custom Taillight Mod, Antique plates and still kickin'!


#24 The County Ripper

The County Ripper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2285 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Sled:2016 cat turbo Limited 137 QS3'S

Posted 11 January 2015 - 03:56 PM

Yeah, I'm on baby duty today so I'm not getting anything done right now. I can guarantee it'll be quieter, probably close to stock levels if not on par with them, just not sure about how it will affect the power.

 

I know I can get a stock muffler but I'd rather not add 10lbs back on to the sled so I'm trying to figure a way around it. That way we're all happy.

 

Just go on a Diet.......no big deal....whats 10 pounds.

 

You gonna stop riding the wife if she gains 10 pounds...... :bighair LOL...J/K

 

You do know the answer better be no....RIGHT..LOL :righton


Edited by The County Ripper, 11 January 2015 - 03:57 PM.

<p>I belong to " TEAM GRAMPA "" Just don't get in my way !!<br><br>
I have a "HEAVY THUMB" Do to "ARTHRITIS"<br><br>
Some times I'm in a hurry because I forget to wear my Depends !!!!</p>

#25 LRD

LRD

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3298 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Princeton, MN
  • Interests:Extreme Mountain Snowmobiling
    Dirt Biking
    Bowfishing for Carp
    Target Shooting
    Forex Trading
  • Sled:TNT 636 Mod 360 lb - 15 X 141 X 2.25

Posted 11 January 2015 - 04:01 PM

In that case I won't bother with a mechanical gauge. I noticed you had made a few references to heat build-up on the pistons with much too much pressure, and high EGTs with not enough pressure. I found this very interesting and was hoping that you could expand on this. This could help explain why a dyno service you know had noticed some very high EGT readings on one of his sleds without failure, and I mean temperatures I could not post as they would not be believable.

I was trying say that a higher egt from leaner jetting would raise hp and raise pipe pressure. 

Higher barometric pressure from lower altitude or colder air will raise pipe pressure

 

Think I figured out exactly what happens that will burn an engine down with to much pipe pressure this morning. 

 

On a long pull your egt in the center of the pipe will go up, the longer you hold it wide open it just keeps going up. 

I have left and right egt probes in the y-pipe and another in the belly of the pipe, 1200 on the cylinders will be maybe

550 to 600 max in the pipe belly if I'm remembering right, and it takes a while to get the pipe heated. 

 

So lets say you get  200 degrees more than normal belly temp racing your buddys across a 4 mile lake.  The way a

pipe works is positive and negative wave action that pushes and pulls in your pipe sometimes even pulls the reeds

open and sucks all the way to the air box.  The reflected wave from the tapered end of the pipe pushes mixture from the front end of the pipe and y-pipe back into the cylinder.  If the pipe gets to hot it will heat this mixture up to the point where it will detonate real easy when its back in the cylinder.

 

There is a great 2-stroke demo that shows how this wave action works with simulated colored waves through the carb

engine and pipe, will try to find it and post a link, far easier to understand with it.



#26 LRD

LRD

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3298 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Princeton, MN
  • Interests:Extreme Mountain Snowmobiling
    Dirt Biking
    Bowfishing for Carp
    Target Shooting
    Forex Trading
  • Sled:TNT 636 Mod 360 lb - 15 X 141 X 2.25

Posted 11 January 2015 - 04:06 PM

Here you go, engineering level with lots of pictures and pipe design formulas plus the rotaing two stroke with carb and pipe.

 

http://en.wikibooks...._Stroke_Engines



#27 gene p

gene p

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 5936 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling
  • Sled:'07 MXZ 600 SDI

Posted 11 January 2015 - 04:11 PM



 You, sir, are ok in my book.

 

X-2 ^ 

If you're looking for a stocker , did you try Al's ?



#28 LRD

LRD

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3298 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Princeton, MN
  • Interests:Extreme Mountain Snowmobiling
    Dirt Biking
    Bowfishing for Carp
    Target Shooting
    Forex Trading
  • Sled:TNT 636 Mod 360 lb - 15 X 141 X 2.25

Posted 11 January 2015 - 04:51 PM

Great explanation of a two stroke pipe at motorcyle.com  http://www.motorcycl...-care-3423.html

 

 

I googled "two stroke silencer design" and their is  some info for things to try

https://www.google.c...silencer design

 

I have a Carbon fiber silencer on my little big bore ported 636 carb and it only has about 2.5 psi and its way to loud.

Plenty of room to put some more resistance in to hopefully make it quieter and get the pipe pressure up to the 3.5 psi #



#29 TNTF/A

TNTF/A

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 589 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berks County,PA.
  • Interests:WS6 Trans Am
  • Sled:2014 Renegade X 1200

Posted 11 January 2015 - 07:01 PM

Digital IR Infrared Temperature Temp Thermometer Laser Point Gun($16.00 on Ebay). Use it to check the head temperature before and after the baffle install.

 

I think your baffle idea will work.



#30 Freestylin'

Freestylin'

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1652 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Gilmanton, NH
  • Interests:Snowmobiling, snowboarding, motorcycles, cars, trucks, sports...Anything with an engine, definitely.
  • Sled:2006 Ski Doo MXZ 500ss

Posted 11 January 2015 - 07:13 PM

Thanks for all the ideas guys. Usually these can threads get locked up pretty quick and I was trying to avoid that. I figured since I'm trying to make my existing can quieter rather than as loud as it could possibly be it should stick around for a while. I took a quick video to give you guys an idea of what I am working with for sound levels.


2006 Ski-Doo MXZ 500ss...136" swap, narrowed stock a-arms, pilot 6.9 skis, and a whole lot more...Mod sled build in progress!

1988 Polaris Sprint 340...Custom Taillight Mod, Antique plates and still kickin'!





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users