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Silencing the Can


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#1 Freestylin'

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 07:37 PM

I have a MBRP can on my sled (came with it, I didn't buy it) and it's been brought to my attention that it's pretty loud. I decided to make a removable baffle insert for it as I don't have the couple hundred bucks necessary to buy a stock exhaust or quieter silencer. I know that putting something in the exhaust to limit the sound will also limit exhaust flow and increase backpressure which is a potential issue especially for 2 stroke sleds, but I'm willing to sacrifice a little power for the benefit of decreased weight if it is about the same loudness. The baffle only weighs about a pound so you're still saving 10+lbs in some cases over the stock exhaust.

 

My question is, other than a decrease in power due to the increase in exhaust backpressure, am I putting the engine at risk at all by using this baffle? I'd hate to burn the sled down or something along those lines trying to appease the anti-can crowd. For reference, this is essentially what I'm duplicating:

 

silencer.jpg

 

Thanks in advance for your input.


2006 Ski-Doo MXZ 500ss...136" swap, narrowed stock a-arms, pilot 6.9 skis, and a whole lot more...Mod sled build in progress!

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#2 Tahquamenon

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 07:50 PM

Not being a fan of loud sleds I would fish around for used stock muffler and meanwhile put up with the less restrictvie and louder aftermarket exaust until I could find one.  Parts sleds do become available now and then.

 

I would not want to risk the engine ending up with less airflow that stock.  Think could cause higher operating temperatures as the fuel mapping would not be correct for the restricted flow of the exhaust if that ended up being the case.

 

.

My two pennies...


Edited by Tahquamenon, 10 January 2015 - 07:56 PM.


#3 Freestylin'

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 07:55 PM

See that's why I was tossing it out there--usually if you make the exhaust more restrictive although it may make a bit more heat in the pipe due to the backpressure it would end up making the sled run rich rather than lean. Rich lowers EGTs. At least that's my understanding of it but that's based on 4 stroke where my knowledge comes from.


2006 Ski-Doo MXZ 500ss...136" swap, narrowed stock a-arms, pilot 6.9 skis, and a whole lot more...Mod sled build in progress!

1988 Polaris Sprint 340...Custom Taillight Mod, Antique plates and still kickin'!


#4 Mach189

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 07:56 PM

I don't think that insert is going to put more back pressure on the system than a stock muffler would. I mean, you lessened it by how much with putting the can on?

Could be a good experiment....or costly lol

#5 Tahquamenon

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:08 PM

See that's why I was tossing it out there--usually if you make the exhaust more restrictive although it may make a bit more heat in the pipe due to the backpressure it would end up making the sled run rich rather than lean. Rich lowers EGTs. At least that's my understanding of it but that's based on 4 stroke where my knowledge comes from.

Think would be correct with rich condition and lower overall EGT.  If is not a huge pain to make this insert you could briefly try it and monitor to see what happens and if have an issue indication take it out.

 

Which engine are you thinking of doing this exhaust instert with?



#6 Freestylin'

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:09 PM

Yeah that was kinda my thought. Without cutting the stock exhaust open and seeing its inner workings I won't know how much more or less restrictive it is. I know with 2 strokes it's about more than just how much restrictiveness there is in the system though, as the exhaust pulses have a lot to do with how it performs--moreso with the pipe and stinger than the silencer but I'm sure there is an effect there too.

 

I can pretty easily see if there is a power gain or difference just by seeing the peak rpms. If they drop, it means power dropped off as I would have to run less pin weight in the clutch to get the same target rpm, and vice versa for a power gain. I just want to make sure I'm not creating a lot more work for myself by being the guinea pig for this idea.

 

This is going on a 06 500ss which is stock other than boyesen reeds (not rage cages, just reeds) and the MBRP can.

 

I'll probably cut open and re-pack the silencer with steel wool in the spring as well but definitely not doing any more than this simple experiment in the middle of the season.


Edited by Freestylin', 10 January 2015 - 08:10 PM.

2006 Ski-Doo MXZ 500ss...136" swap, narrowed stock a-arms, pilot 6.9 skis, and a whole lot more...Mod sled build in progress!

1988 Polaris Sprint 340...Custom Taillight Mod, Antique plates and still kickin'!


#7 bansheecantride55

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:20 PM

From  what I understand you will pry gain back what power you lost with the can and make the noise more appealing at the same time. I would think what you are showing will not create to much back pressure to cause heat problems. Would be pretty cool if it worked..    



#8 LRD

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 11:10 PM

Increasing back pressure in the pipe will increase HP until you have so much pressure that you are pushing to much heat into the piston.

A lot of the cans if not all likely had to little pressure losing hp because they weakened the negative and positive wave action that makes a two stroke with a pipe into the incredible HP producing engines they can be.  That wave action gives us mild supercharging effect.

 

My thread here goes into it in detail and how I measured actual pipe pressure http://www.dootalk.c...t-450lbs/page-8 I can now monitor it all the time and record on my dash gauge.  The ideal pressure seems to be about 3 to 3.5 psi.  Drag racers get away with a lot more but they only run for 500 ft or so. If you don't run full throttle across a lake for a couple miles can run more pressure etc. 

 

Anybody that doubts this just subscribe to DynoTech Research.com and you will learn from their SuperFlow dyno how much difference it makes.



#9 MinnDave

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 11:54 PM

Not to jump in and take a dump but today..........................

 

My wife and I drove our stock Renegade 900 ACE sleds on the lake.... with all the ice fishermen.... and ATV's ..... and cross-country skiers... and I gotta believe that when we drove our sleds past them they thought... WTH, I cannot hear those sleds.

 

I looked at my speedo and it is reading 60 mph. I am thinkin no way??????

 

Get there folks. Do OUR sport a favor and can the cans!!!!!



#10 seiner

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 12:12 AM

I'll bet that if you asked to buy a stock can on dootalk, someone will have one for sale cheap.

 

 

Take me for instance I have several 800 stockers I'll sell cheap. 



#11 SKI_DOO_MAN_484

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 12:17 AM

This thread gives me hope for the future. You, sir, are ok in my book. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Head on over to my YouTube channel and click subscribe!! : http://www.youtube.c...er/skiDOOman484

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#12 x-treme

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 01:39 AM

I have a muffler from an 06 600 SDI that might work. Anybody know for sure if it fits his sled?  The Part numbers are the same except for the last digit but the only difference is the way they have the parts  listed.  Check the Skidoo microfiche.   Both Motors are 600s The only different is the way that the air and fuel are delivered. I will sell at a very reasonable price.


Edited by x-treme, 11 January 2015 - 01:40 AM.


#13 Freestylin'

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 07:54 AM

Thank you for the offer guys. I will consider that if my experiment doesn't pan out. I wanted to make sure that it wasn't going to blow my engine up in the process. I'm expecting it will have more backpressure than the stock muffler. Once I take a couple pictures you'll understand as it has baffles that protrude into the exhaust pipe. I want to get it done first and see how it performs before I comment any more.


2006 Ski-Doo MXZ 500ss...136" swap, narrowed stock a-arms, pilot 6.9 skis, and a whole lot more...Mod sled build in progress!

1988 Polaris Sprint 340...Custom Taillight Mod, Antique plates and still kickin'!


#14 Daag44

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 08:52 AM

Increasing back pressure in the pipe will increase HP until you have so much pressure that you are pushing to much heat into the piston.

A lot of the cans if not all likely had to little pressure losing hp because they weakened the negative and positive wave action that makes a two stroke with a pipe into the incredible HP producing engines they can be.  That wave action gives us mild supercharging effect.

 

My thread here goes into it in detail and how I measured actual pipe pressure http://www.dootalk.c...t-450lbs/page-8 I can now monitor it all the time and record on my dash gauge.  The ideal pressure seems to be about 3 to 3.5 psi.  Drag racers get away with a lot more but they only run for 500 ft or so. If you don't run full throttle across a lake for a couple miles can run more pressure etc. 

 

Anybody that doubts this just subscribe to DynoTech Research.com and you will learn from their SuperFlow dyno how much difference it makes.

 

That was a helpful read. We have an 800R in a REV chassis that is showing a significant increase in power with an MBRP can over a stock REV 800 muffler, according to the owner. This is not making me happy at all, since it is way too loud and next door. Now that I know how to measure the pipe pressure I just need a little better details on how to setup my mechanical vacuum/pressure gauge to compare between the two. Do you happen to have any pictures of your setup?


Edited by Daag44, 11 January 2015 - 08:53 AM.

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Wideband readings of Air/Fuel Ratio on a two stroke
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E-TEC Oil Pump
E-TEC Dial-A-Jet
E-TEC Engine Management
E-TEC Stator fault codes P1562 or P1563
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Fuel Issues: Could new Ester type oxygenated additives be deteriorating the Fuel Sender Grommet?
Fuel pump and regulator replacement for ACE, E-TEC and SDI
Gasoline quality and storage
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Grip N Rip Clutch Alignment testing
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Pictures - How to resize and upload to DooTalk
Pipe Pressure testing on a dyno
Pipe Pressure testing from LRD (#1) and (#2)
Pipe Pressure testing results from BRP
Oil versus Fuel consumption
Power at the Crankshaft vs Track - BlueMax
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Power Curves: 600 vs 800 vs 850 vs 1000 vs 1200
Power Curves: 1000 vs 800 vs 600
Power curves: 800RE 2010.5 to 2016 vs 2016.5 850
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#15 The County Ripper

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Posted 11 January 2015 - 09:16 AM

Why not just advertise it ,as trade for stock muffler Im sure there is someone out there looking for a can that would just trade you for the same reason as you...............They want one but don't want to drop the coin on one!!

 

There are plenty of people out there that don't have the can problem in there area's of riding .......unlike what most on here would like you to believe....JMO


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